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7-Plus-NGM Digest December 2007
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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 07:46:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Precision Steel Car
Does anyone know what happened to them as there web site is down along with Vernons email address?
Thanks
Boyd in the white pacific northwest on the east side of washington.
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Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 18:55:39 -0000
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"
Subject: Re: Precision Steel Car
Hello Boyd,
I just googled and got the website-URL, which is working for me.
Try it out under
http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/Contact%20Information.htm
Greetings from Germany
Hubert
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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:47:37 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Precision Steel Car
Ok thanks Hubert it worked fine
I updated my info as was in a panic that something had happened to them.
I got a bunch of there stake pockets, they are so much better than those from another supplier, and they dont require any flash removal either.
Now that I have them may have to build another flat car after all.
Boyd.
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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 21:29:36 -0600
From: BusBarn@Prodigy.net
Subject: RE: 3.75" scale on 7.5" gauge
Frolin,
I want to thank you for posting all the pictures about the SR&CL.
After seeing all your pictures I was convinced I really needed to see the railroad and wasn't in the least disappointed it is truly a unique railroad. I can never hope to come close to what those guys have created in Michigan, but at least I can try to make a compromise.
You are right, the heavy steel rail really makes for a smooth and steady ride with better traction on the grades. Not to mention the steel rail really looks cool.
I have considered the clearances when visiting other railroads. I figured the taller equipment would be a problem since I've had to duck at times when riding on the tender of my steamer. But didn't think 23" would be too wide. I can't believe an extra 4" over standard gauge on each side would make that much difference. After all my foot pegs on my 1.5" steam engine stick out that far.
But I still want to make the wider and heavier narrow gauge rolling stock. I just couldn't believe how much more stable the larger narrow gauge rolling stock was compared to the smaller 1.5" scale equipment. There just wasn't any comparison. When riding on 1.5" scale I feel the need to balance, on the 3.75" scale I didn't feel any balance problem.
My next challenge is to find suitable castings for the equipment I want to build. I haven't found anyone who is making scale 2 foot gauge swing motion truck castings so I think I will need to make my own patterns and castings. I've made aluminum, brass and bronze castings, but I would like to try my hand at casting iron with a cupola furnace.
Again Frolin thanks for the inspirational website, I had a WONDERFUL time visiting the SR&CL and hope to return again some day.
Rick Taylor
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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:22:15 -0600
From: BusBarn@Prodigy.net
Subject: RE: 3.75" scale on 7.5" gauge
Tom, thanks for being so accommodating, we felt very honored being able to visit and participate on your railroad. The SR&CL really is a working railroad no doubt about it. Everything about the railroad is the real thing, not models. Your equipment is very rugid, stable and useable. I can't believe how much weight we were hauling up and down those grades.
When I was told I was going to be a brakeman I thought ok, a glorified name for a passenger. But on those steep grades with those heavy loads I really was a brakeman!! How cool is that!!!! I really was working for a real railroad.
But the highlight of the day had to be when we brought a load of wood out of the valley on the branch line with the shay going up and down 4 and 6 percent grades then joining on the main line with the mixed train. Having a steam Forney on the head and the shay pushing up the rear all the way up the hill on that cold rainy day with the steam and smoke billowing and needing to use the sanders on both engines for traction still raises the hair on the back of my neck when I think about it!!! Tom, weren't you the engineer in the Forney on that last run?
The dispatcher had it right, where else in the country on that weekend were there 3 narrow gauge steam engines all working at the same time? And I mean WORKING!! Not just make believe running around.
Tom, please forward our thanks to Tom and all the crew at the SR&CL, we had an unforgettable day which made the 1600 mile round trip weekend very memorable.
Rick Taylor
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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:37:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Bonding
I would not rely on a bond on an axle due to the loading and such, it just does not seem to work after a period of time, interference fit, welding, key way with set screws work, the best is the first two as sometimes set screws work looks or the fit between the wheel and axle isn't tight enough and will start to wear which will cause the wheel to be loose on the axle. Aluminum wheels do not wear well and can climb aluminum rail causing derailments. This comes from watching what works and doesnt at Train Mountain over the years and seeing people have problems.
Good luck with your project.
Boyd Butler
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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:38:29 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Bonding
Sorry about the last message as replied to an old one and didnt know it again forget about it
Boyd
one day late and one brick short of a full load these days.
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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:37 -0500
From: Ferdinand Mels
Subject: Re: Bonding
Hi Boyd
Thanks - I have often wondered whether the Kozo (loctite) method held up for holding wheels to axles. Seemed to me to be just as quick to braze the wheel on.
cheers Ferd
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:21:42 +0000
From: Roy Stevens
Subject: RE: Bonding
A local guy turned his railroad into a 6 day per week amusement park for two years and ran his stuff enough to literally wear the flanges off billet steel wheels.
He says he had trouble with wheels coming loose on the axle on just about every style except the newer Mountain Car trucks with the locker nuts.
He is especially critical of wheels that were bonded on.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:14:27 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Trucks
This is very true as even if pressed on they sometimes come loose, it could be from soft castings at times as they might not be too well done or too loose a fit to start with. Who knows and another thing is when making the hole for the axle in the wheel if it isn't reamed the hole could be not true as just a little deflection on a boring bar during the operation could make the hole bell shaped and if one uses a drill only you will get a three sided hole not a true round one. Bonding them on just fills the bad parts of the hole up making up for the loose fit to start with. The forces on the wheel during operating are greater than one thinks even in our scale. If you are using steel wheels not cast the problem with soft castings will not be a problem also they will last much longer and one can spot weld them onto the axles if needed.
Boyd
where the sun is shining in eastern Washington.
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:20:31 EST
From: GengH@aol.com
Subject: Bonding wheels
I do not know what the hang up is on using Loctite to bond wheels on axles.
All it requires is good old fashioned craftsmanship and following instructions.
Drill and ream the wheel.
Turn the axle to a close fit but not tight, approximately .001 clearance.
Loctite has to have a little space.
Degrease completely and clean with acetone.
Spray on Loctite primer inside the wheel and on the axle. Let dry about 20 minutes. Very few are aware of this important step.
Use the strongest grade of Loctite that is made for locking bearings.
George Hoke
Kitsap Live Steamers
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:07:59 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Locktite
One can do whatever you want for bonding or not, just know what I have seen happen at TM over the years. I am quite sure that some have used Loctite with good results. So go with whatever works well for you I would rather not and use just a press fit that way there is nothing but steel to steel.
Boyd on the dry side of Washington where the road are not rivers
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:37:03 -0500
From: "The Milbournes"
Subject: Electric RGS 2-8-0
Just saw this on ebay that will be of interest to some in this group.
Electric power, steam outline Rio Grande Southern 2-8-0 2.5" scale 7.5" gauge
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270194187523
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:16:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: The Railway Channel
Subject: The Railway Channel Annual 2008 & Hello!
Hi to everyone in the group,
If you don't know us, we are The Railway Channel – a free online channel where everyday you can watch a different video, covering model, garden, steam and diesel interests.
It's a bit late - but, hey, we're nearly all blokes and which one of us doesn't leave it until the last minute at Christmas time? We've launched the "Railway Channel Annual 2008" 2 DVD set, featuring Steam, Diesel, Full Size, Narrow Gauge, Model & Miniature Railways – its just been completed.
You may particularly interested in "The Beer Heights Light Railway", A miniature railway well known to us all - this look at the line is abbreviated from the full length production being made available next year on Miniature Pleasures Volume 3.
Being an Annual, there are many more features of different aspects of railway interests...
The Great Central, Mid Norfolk and Beer Heights are just three of the railways featured in this two DVD set - there's also Finnish steam on the Epping Ongar, a Swiss mountain railway, a complete footplate ride along the Welshpool and Llanfair, four brilliant layouts from Keighley MRC plus garden railways in 16mm and Gauge One.
More info, including a preview of the only annual that lasts nearly THREE HOURS! is available here
Even the trailer's good - you can have a quick look at it here.
We've done the packaging in a retro style harking back to those days of the "Locospotters' Annual" from Ian Allan - what do you reckon? I think retro is the way forward!
This brilliant two DVD package can be yours for only £19.99 - and you can make sure of getting it by Christmas by ordering in our secure online shop, or you can call us on 07973 730 721 to speak to a human being.
We're a friendly bunch and are always happy to answer any questions you may have about our range of DVD's or any of the programmes that we show on http://www.therailwaychannel.com
All the best, and I hope you enjoy the DVD,
Mark F
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:26:51 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Ride In Engines.
Does anyone have info on 7.5 gauge ride in gas powered engines? Am thinking when I move south to Train Mountain it would be nice to have one and a car to pull also when the weather is bad so one can still enjoy the railroad.
Boyd Butler
up here where the sun is shining and the roads are dry
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:53:43 -0800 (PST)
From: MERLE MILLER
Subject: Re: Ride In Engines
Boyd:
Check out Moor Valley Railway in your browser.
Merle.
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 16:48:59 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Re: Ride In Engines
Thanks as forgot about them, the gas ride in with a little narrow gauge look would work fine I think that my chest that slipped would fit in fine.
With a little work I dont think that plans would be needed as its a simple layout.
A ten horse engine with chain drive or hydraulic would work fine.
Boyd.
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:50:02 -0000
From: "Gerd Ziller"
Subject: Re: A new logging line in 2"-scale is growing up.
Good morning,
I've postet 6 new photos to my folder, showing the actual progress on my diesel loco Maggie, the first riding car and a basic 4-wheel flatcar frame.
A basic 4-wheel car frame
Maggie with new link&pin couplers
Fire wood car (steam loco riding car)
I hope you'll enjoy my work and I'll try to get this cars done this week, to start with the repair and kitbash of my steamer.
Best regards, Gerd
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:46:29 -0000
From: "Gerd Ziller"
Subject: Turning a 0-4-0 Koppel in to a 0-4-4 Forney
Hello all,
in fact of my new project, my 2"-scaled Bear Creek Lumber & Railroad, I started to rebuild my old german 0-4-0 Koppel into an 0-4-0 Forney, inspired by some Maine 2-footer locos.
You can follow my progress on my website or use this direct link =>
http://www.gerds-modellbahn.de/BCL/Fahrzeuge/Christine/e_Christine.htm
The first steam up will be in 4 weeks (midde January). So let's get it on.
Best regards, Gerd
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:06:18 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"
Subject: Re: Turning a 0-4-0 Koppel in to a 0-4-4 Forney
Gerd,
Look forward to watching the progress photos on your site.
The first couple show the tender truck you are building. Nice and easy looking approach. Wondering about spring, give and flex. The photos make it look very ridgid?
Frolin
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:46:10 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"
Subject: need a stack base
i'm a new member of the forum and i'm building a 3 3/4" scale ride-in-cab engine.
i'm looking for a stack base to fit 3" std. pipe and to sit on 12.75" dia. smokebox. is anything available? if not what is the best way to fabricate one?
thanks,
fred v
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:01:41 -0800
From: Peter Moseley
Subject: Re: need a stack base
Check with Roll Models. 559-441-8686
Peter Moseley
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:23:45 -0800 (PST)
From: MERLE MILLER
Subject: Re: need a stack base
If you can't find a transition anywhere else, make a wood pattern and I will cast you one.
Merle.
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:38:43 -0800
From: George Potter
Subject: Re: need a stack base
Hi Fred,
What I did was cut a large "washer" out of 1/4" plate .... the inner hole sized to fit around a standard pipe coupling (one of the smooth ones used for rigid conduit), the outer diameter .... picked to be approximately the diameter of the "base".
A bit of bending, grinding (so the hole was "round" after the washer being bashed to the diameter of the smoke box) and presto .... a stack base. Welded the washer about 1/2 way through and my "stack" then screws into the coupling. I have a "dress" stack that slips over the pipe (actually a radley hunter stack to be more exact ....)
If you don't want a "round" stack base .... torch to the style you want.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
George Potter
Placerville, California
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:21:52 -0000
From: "Gerd Ziller"
Subject: Re: Turning a 0-4-0 Koppel in to a 0-4-4 Forney
Hello,
I posted my new progress from the last two days to my website. The frame is neraly finished, so I hope I can set the boiler in place tomorrow.
Frolin, the truck it self has no springs. There are only two springs between the truck and the frame.
So long, Gerd
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:33:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"
Subject: Narrow Gauge Loco
Gerd,
I hope that your track is smooth as if you do not have any give in your truck side frame to bolster its going to be a rough deal trying to keep it on track.
While some did not have in full scale our scale you need it.
They use the weight to twist the truck as needed,most used springs but some that didn't were narrow gauge and some were wood bolsters that I have seen pix of.
I know of one person making trucks that are advertised as heavy duty but one fellow who has them asked me how to keep them on the track.
The amount of bolster to pin play will only work for a while as soon a rough piece of track will put you on the ground.
Good luck with your project as I want to build a ride in cab gas powered engine one day too.
Boyd up here in Washington state on the wet side now, still the right side but not the dry side.
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:33:30 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"
Subject: Re: need a stack base
thanks, i didn't think about a coupling.
fred
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:23:37 +1300
From: Grant & Donna Alexander
Subject: Thoughts on Superheat
Here's a hornet's nest, and I guess if I go through the archives I'll probably find the answer, but fresh ideas are usually the best. My current loco is superheated and I was wondering about the disadvantages with changing it to saturated steam. Any really strong views out there, and do you think it will have a noticable effect on the power? I do expect to see a noticable effect at the stack, with lots of visible steam as right now the steam is only present when I've been loading at the station for too long. The loco has slide valves, I usually run at around 80PSI, and the loads are never great.
Grant Alexander
Squirrel Valley Railway
Cambridge
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:14:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Gadd
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
I think my first reply to these mails???
I have had many years of full-size steam locomotive experience, although not nearly so many with miniature steam.
However, in my opinion, the answer to your question is that I doubt that you will notice any appreciable difference between super-heat and saturated. Given your loco has slide valves and is only working at 80psi I doubt very much that there is any super-heat actually going on!
At best you are probably getting a mild form of stead drying! The only benefit of which, would be a slight saving in water consumption.
When British Rail conducted their super-heat experiments in the late 40's they discovered that an average coal fired steam loco boiler (British practice) was not really capable of producing the heat necessary for super heated steam to work effectively. As far as I'm aware, the only locomotives in the world to really crack super-heat effectively are the really large North American engines, boiler size?and forced drafting being absolutely necessary.
Incidentally, the Ffestiniog Railway in Wales (UK) now uses super-heat as standard on all its boilers. However, as they are at pains to point out, all locos on the line are oil fired and with this form of fuel in a standard loco boiler virtually all of the heat is transferred to the water through the tubes. With coal fuel the opposite is true, here most of the conductivity takes place in the firebox and the tubes (where you would normally expect to find the super-heat elements) only play a minor role in heat transferral.
In fact the heat in the FR boilers is so great, that they have had to develop new super-heater elements to cope with the temperatures. The ends of the elements are now made with chrome, I believe!!!
Thanks,
Andrew.
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:55:07 -0000
From: "John Vincent"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
I've found superheat does make a difference., even in the smaller scales.
A friend of mine, this summer, removed his superheaters due to leak problems.
He wasn't going to bother keeping them as he didn't think it made much difference.
The performance wasn't near as good as it had been.
He did notice more water and coal use, but also, the operation of the loco wasn't as crisp and energetic as it had been.
He redid the failed superheaters and installed them again, the old performace returned. This was only on a 5" gauge narrow gauge style Bagnall locomotive with slide valves and Hackworth gear, but the performace difference was noticable.
John Vincent
Ontario
Canada
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:56:14 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Grant, what typ of superheater tubes are you using? are they real heater tubes going back to the firebox or is it a tube coil in the smokebox?
fred v
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:33:12 +1300
From: "Grant @ Squirrel Valley Railway"
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Fred,
There are four super heater flues in the boiler, the superheater elements are in parallel and do reach into the
firebox. They are out and back style, not concentric. Also, the boiler is about 4 feet long. Oh, there certainly does seem to be at the very least some drying going on as when I'm running there is no visible steam from the stack. But after I've been parked up for a while there is noticable steam for the first little while upon setting off.
Grant.
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:24:13 +1300
From: "Grant @ Squirrel Valley Railway"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Andrew, excellent, thanks very much for this, it's good to see how the big folks do it, and what their experiences are. As long as there's not a great big drop in power this will really simplify the changes I have in mind inside the smokebox.
Grant.
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:27:09 +1300
From: "Grant @ Squirrel Valley Railway"
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hi John, that's interesting what you say here, gives me more food for thought. Hmmm... what to do? I did expect to use more water, and I suspect coal too, but it's not about efficiency but more about having fun. It's good that your friend confirmed the results by re-installing the super heaters, but, a bit of a quandry for me.
Grant.
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:19:16 +0200
From: "Hannes Paling"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hi Grant
Some time ago I removed the super heaters from one of my engines, there was noticeably wetter steam and some water droplets leaving the chimney after standing in the station for a while, this soon cleared as soon as the loco was on the move, performance wise I did not notice any difference. I fitted wound up steel strip's full length in the flues to create turbulence and prevent the hot gasses from flowing to easily through the "large tubes". In my opinion they only acted as steam dryers.
My experience in full-size was that super heaters only started working properly after the engine had been working hard for a few miles with the fire becoming "white" hot, or at least that's the conclusion I arrived at.
My model steam locomotive's never work hard enough for long enough to get the fire temperature high enough for them to start working properly, on tracks in this country at least, before the firebox temperature rises significantly the engine is back in the station cooling down again. I myself do not bother with the added complication of fitting them any more.
This is off course only my personal experience and observations, some one else's observations could differ widely from mine. It sure would make interesting reading what other's have experienced in this field.
Come on guys give us your experience and opinion's on this matter.
Best Regards
Hannes
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:05:26 -0000
From: "cmsteamer"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hello Hannes,
My 7-1/2" ga coal fired Atlantic has a **radiant** superheater.
Having tried with and without, it's like night and day.
Everyone that saw this loco knew how clean it stayed with little effort. No wet steam blowing wet soot droplets all over.
A very simple affair that in fact makes front end connections simpler. Nothing more than a stainless steel U tube with a center leg. Steam from the throttle valve is passed thru the center leg and the side legs feed the cylinders in turn. Always hot and reading to go.
Never soots up or needs cleaning. This was built in 1972 and still doing a great job.
My new Ten Wheeler will definetly be getting one fitted as well as the 3-3/4" scale Kerr Stuart Wren.
RichD
Atlanta, Ga USA
Merry Christmas
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:45:04 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"
Subject: Re: need a stack base
i checked and the Roll Models stack base is made to fit a 10" dia. boiler. grrr
fred v
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:53:36 -0500
From: Arno Martens
Subject: Re: Re: need a stack base
Is there enough meat to fly cut it to the 12.75" diameter?
--
Arno
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:29:32 +0200
From: "Hannes Paling"
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hi Rich
Thanks Rich that is the kind feedback I like, I will definately give it a try.
Merry Christmas to all
Hannes
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:35:26 -0500
From: Arno Martens
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
I had a single U almost touching the back wall of the fire box.
Worked perfectly.
Arno
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:48:50 -0500
From: Rich Dean
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hannes and all,
I have two pictures showing the details of my radiant "superheater" elements available via email if you would like a peek.
Again, It's just a simple stainless steel U tube afair at the roof of the firebox and almost touching the rear sheet having 3 legs. Center is from the dry pipe and the outer legs feed the valve chests. No manifolds required. The smokebox remains clear for tube maintenance at all times. Three fire tubes used for connections.
RichD
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:55:11 -0500
From: Arno Martens
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hello Rich,
please add my address when you make such a mailing.
I would like to come up with something if I get around to rebuilding that Stourbridge Lion.
Haven't given it much thought but it may not be possible as the cylinders are near the back head with external pipes straight from the steam turret.
--
Regards,
Arno
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:37:26 -0000
From: "Ed McCamey"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Rich,
Post the pictures in the files area here on the list - saves making separate e-mails with attachments. Can't quite picture the 3-legs without a manifold or at least a 'T'.
If not posted - then add me to the e-mails.
-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:54:52 +0200
From: "Hannes Paling"
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Rich
Would love to see your pictures, sounds interesting, especially if you could fit them to an existing engine that does not have larger tubes fitted for the super heaters.
Perhaps as Ed advises you should upload them to files section.
Regards
Hannes
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:50:28 -0500
From: Arno Martens
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hannes,
The single U tube I had on mine went through 'regular' tubes but had fittings welded on at the smoke box end to make the connection with steam line from the steam dome and to the valves.
Although the tube was originally inserted through the firebox door the fittings were larger that the steam pipes and the super heater tube could not be removed any longer. Didn't need to either.
The dryer steam made quite a difference on cold days as your face wasn't engulfed in steam and that which was blown there didn't condense on your glasses.
Oh, also no freckles after riding. ;->)
--
Cheers,
Arno
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:15:12 -0500
From: Rich Dean
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hannes and all,
One of the details about the U radiant heater of this design is that 3 of the normal sized top row of fire tubes is stuffed with "pipe" sized tubes.
The scheme is that the U tube assembly is formed of thick wall stainless hydraulic tube or standard "pipe" size tube. The center leg is TIG welded over a hole drilled in to the center of the U. Now 2 Pipe couplings are cut in half and 3 pieces are welded to the ends of the legs. This assembly is sized to fit between the 3 fire tube ends and the rear firebox sheet to allow lifting into place as threaded pipe sections are pushed thru the 3 fire tubes and screwed up tight. The smokebox connections consist of a U tube assembly to route the throttle valve steam to the center S/H leg and 2 angled assemblies to connect the outer legs to the steam chest fittings.
So, you can see that the S/H pipes have to be a matching fit with the fire tubes.
I typically use (Nor.Amer. sizes) 5/8" copper (K wall) "water tube" that is actually 3/4" OD for fire tubes and 1/4" "pipe" for the S/H. There is little space left in the fire tube and the firebox end must be sealed to keep cinders out lest they pack in and make pipe removal difficult later.
I'll try to add the pics to the a photo album later today.
RichD
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:34:47 +0200
From: "Hannes Paling"
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Thanks Rich & Arno, my Avonside 2065 is a month or two at the most from steaming, initial tests will be without the super heater, will convert to the radiant soon after, will report back to the forum about my findings.
regards
Hannes
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:20:16 +0900
From: "Craig Belcher"
Subject: Re: Re: need a stack base
While it may be a 10" boiler, Wato's specs called for a 12 3/4" OD smokebox. It may be worth E-mailing them and ask the question. The Sweet Creek Drawings i have here definitely show it as being suitable for your needs.
Craig Belcher
Perth
Western Australia
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:14:43 -0000
From: "cmsteamer"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
OK,
Look in the Group Photos area in my RichD's stuff-- Steam Locomotive material Folder.
These are actually color pics. Soot doesn't come in colors!
Radiant Super Heater detail in 8" boiler-smokebox
Atlantic 7.5" ga (semi LE) built 1972 Pin in Apex, NC
NG V Tip wagon 7.5" ga holds 5cu ft (1 of 2)
Kerr Stuart Wren 3-3/4" scale (Ken Swan kit) crosshead assemblies nearly finished
Someone is likely to comment about the lack of moisture in the element with the throttle valve closed and a roaring white hot fire going.
Apparently this is not s problem and has never been a concern in the many miles and years since 1972 when it was first fired off.
I have had the unit out many times. Still solid as the day it was installed.
There was a front end throttle at one time, but that is now a steam dome valve. More happiness.
All front end connections are compact SST reverse flare type.
All the best in the Holidays.
RichD, nr Atlanta USA
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:48:10 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"
Subject: Re: need a stack base
hmmm. thanks, i'll do that. the picture shows a fairly thick bottom flange but if it's made with a 10" dia. cutting it to 12" will leave it thick in the middle and thin at the sides. maybe some grinding would fix that.
fred v
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:17:26 +1300
From: Grant & Donna Alexander
Subject: Re:Thoughts on Superheat
Thanks Hannes,
I think we have pretty much decided to proceed with removing the superheaters on #24 and replace the throttle with a lot more substantial one. The original is failing after only a few months running, and their just isn't room for a bigger one with the current front end configuration. And yes, I do intend baffling the four empty 1.25 inch flues once the superheater elements are gone, like you say, to slow the products of combustion enough to allow them to loose some of the heat to the flue walls. But, I do like Rich's idea too, lots of thoughts to go on with... thanks everyone.
Thanks again Hannes for your help and encouragement while we were building this loco, and now with about 10 months running under our belts its really running well. We can easily set off from the steaming bays with just 30 on the clock, and be hooked up and ready to depart the station with 60psi which is more than adequate to haul a dozen or so customers on 2 or 3 cars.
Happy Christmas to you are yours from me and mine.
Grant Alexander
Squirrel Valley Railway
Cambridge
New Zealand.
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 03:02:36 -0500
From: Rich Dean
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hi Grant,
I'm not familiar with usual practices in NZ, but I have had great success with an in the steam dome throttle valve. It's a teflon seat commercial ball valve placed vertically off a 90* elbow hung on the dry pipe. A short nipple screwed into the top end gets to the high point of steam collection.
The stock valve lever is replaced with a new lever and double links to a bell crank hung on the elbow giving a straight shot to the backhead rod gland.
This arrangement, if not abused, will last a very long time with almost no maintenance.
It is easy to remove if needed.
The intake is screened to keep out dirt and help break up water droplets.
RichD
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:52:35 -0000
From: "John Vincent"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
I agree, I've used one on my 3" scale Wren for over 15 years and ist never been apart because of any fault of its own. Its extremely smooth, controls beautifully and always shuts off with no leakage. I'm surpised more peole don't use them.
John Vincent
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:35:08 -0800 (PST)
From: James Keeline
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
When you say "30 on the clock" do you mean to say that you steam up in 30 minutes? That strikes me as a rather quick warm up. Most of my experience is on 12" scale with no superheating (1907 Baldwin at the Poway-Midland RR, 150psi). However, even on the 1.5" scale steamers at Chula Vista Live Steamers seem to take 60-90 minutes for a gradual process of warming up the metal and generating steam. What are you firing with, by the way?
James Keeline
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:41:41 -0500
From: Rich Dean
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
Hi John,
I bought the Ken Swan "Wren" kit in 1986 at a Guilford, Stoke Park meet.
After letting it season a few years I enrolled in a Tech College Machine Tech course to get to use the CNC, surface grinders, large lathes, etc.
So, now I have most of the heavy work done and the boiler started.
Being an Autocad user, I designed the boiler interior and tube layout for the radiant "superheater" and a ball type dome throttle (regulator).
Still a pile of parts, it going together slowly.
There's a pic of the crosshead assemblies and oilers in the photos section in the album "RichD's Stuff".
Is your Wren the 3-3/4" Ken Swan kit?
Do you have any digital pics to share?
It seems no one on the side of the pond has ever brought one over.
Merry Christmas
RichD
Atlanta, USA
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:24:24 +1300
From: Grant & Donna Alexander
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Superheat
No, I meant 30PSI.
We fire with Australian Char, but I light up with kerosene soaked softboard.
Grant.
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:58:47 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"
Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR
Tis the season for all to receive the engines and equipment we ask for. So have a Merry Chistmas and a Happy New Year.
Bill
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:15:42 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"
Subject: Marek Mountain Mining - 4" scale
Howdy,
Would like to share some photos of my venture in the larger scale of 4"x6" on 7.5" gauge track. I loaded some photos of my ride inside loco, in the PHOTOS area in the 'Marek Mountain Mining' album.
My loco is a freelance diesel switcher, for a what-if Two Foot gauge line. While 3 3/4" scale is correct for 2ft on 7.5", I call it 4x6" because I round to 4" scale sorta, in width, and 6" for extra height, as I ride inside the cab.
The loco is powered by two early RMI trucks, 4 1/2hp motors, on 7in wheels. The loco frame is made from 2" channel with a plate steel fuel tank area hung low to carry the two large deep cycle 12v batteries. Throttle is via a 4QD system and sound via a 80watt stereo eq/amp, 4 speakers and a Sierra (G scale) early-Alco sound unit.
The loco is 23" wide, 50" tall, and 65" long. Originally setup with a temporary wood body, to test clearances and hit trees. Recently fitted with an aluminim body and cab. The most part of the sides are the doors for access to get inside. Feet go in to the body area.
Photos show some of this in summary, along with the loco and test body next to a 1.5" Atlantic and loco with 1.5" cars in tow, for comparison in size. And although most pictures show my son in the cab, I do get to run it to at times. We even shoe-horned a 5'9" tall guy inside the test body once.
Loco, early wood body
thats me with my son Jerry inside the cab
this is a temporary wood body to test shape and look
uses 2 RMI trucks, 4 1/2hp motors, with 2 batteries in the tank area below
Loco, test runs
here I am instead the test frame, to check clearances at area tracks
here the frame and trucks are ready for a test run
Loco, new sheet metal body
final body made of sheet metal, has arrived
side body, air grills, and YES a real train past the fence behind house
cab sides open for access, doors can lift off, feet go in motor area
Loco and 1.5" scale Atlantic
my ride inside loco (test body), next to 1.5" scale Atlantic
Loco with short train
the large scale loco, with small 1.5" scale cars in tow
Loco, cab view
the view most get because "riding behind" a loco
this is what you see from inside the cab
I will admit, it was my contacts with Tom Casper and visits to the Sandy Ridge & Clear Lake Rlwy, that lead me to go bigger than 2.5" scale. And running the SR&CL #25 diesel, which is of course about twice as big as my loco, was an experience that cemented the idea, I want to ride inside not behind it.
Its been a short while since worked on the equipment, and with some nudging by Bill I expect to get another pair of NG trucks built soon and go under the 'first frame' to be a caboose, of similar size to ride inside. Then at some point to revamp my existing three cars to NG trucks.
Happy Holidays!
Frolin Marek
Marek Mountain Railroad
Marek Mountain Mining
Gn3 indoors, 7.5n2 outside
San Antonio, Texas
http://www.Frolin.net
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:34:22 -0000
From: "Russ"
Subject: Re: Marek Mountain Mining - 4" scale
Frolin,
Nice job on the engine.
Looks like you and your son will have many hours of fun running it.
Russ
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:15:27 -0600
From: BusBarn@Prodigy.net
Subject: Re: Marek Mountain Mining - 4" scale
Frolin, I agree with you, after riding in the equipment of the SR&CL the 1.5" scale equipment looks like toys.
Good job on your narrow gauge equipment.
Rick Taylor
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:07:33 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"
Subject: Re: Marek Mountain Mining - 4" scale
What happened to the SR&CL railway web site???
I had been following thier plans for the coach and now thier web site is down.
Bill
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