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7-Plus-NGM Digest October 2009

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:15:09 -0000
From: "Bill"

Subject: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



-Didn't you get the springs and ring?? They are supposed to be spring loaded draft style couplers. The pin in the pocket goes in through the ring and allows the coupler to draft back and forth to center. I would double check with Roll Models.

Bill

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:33:35 -0700
From: "Dave C"

Subject: RE: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Bill

They came with a threaded rod out the end with two springs and a nut. That is it. No paperwork at all.

I did email Roll Models but they have yet to reply. It has been a week so they must be either busy, not there or don't care. Not sure which at this point. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait a week, poke them again and if that doesn't work then wing it.

It would be nice to see a picture or drawing of how they did it as it must make sense to them or they wouldn't have gone to all the trouble to drill and tap the end of the coupler and supply the rod and springs. It just seems to me the pivot point is way too far inboard to get much movement in the coupler on curves.

Dave C.

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:24:58 -0700
From: Peter Moseley

Subject: Re: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Why not call Dave Rohr at RMI. 559-908-1479

Peter Moseley

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:43:28 -0000
From: "Filbert"

Subject: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Dave,

I took a look at the RMI cars we have at our club, both 2 1/2" scale and the larger E Scale cars. They both use a coupler pocket like this:

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/rmirailworks/Detail?no=195

And both use the coupler with the threaded rod like you have. There is a hole in the back of the coupler pocket and the rod goes through it with a spring on the inside of the pocket and one on the outside with a lock nut screwed on the end. Couldn't get a photo, but it is pretty simple and nothing special. There seems to be plenty of play in the coupler pocket which is 3 inches wide. Not sure if the pocket is already drilled for the hole or not as it comes from the factory. You could probably give them a call and ask for a drawing so you can see if it will fit your car.

They coupler pockets look really nice, if they are within your budget I would recommend purchasing some of the complete pockets from RMI.

Phil

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 04:12:04 -0700
From: "Dave C"

Subject: RE: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Phil

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I thought it might be something like that but was not sure of the lateral movement when all was said and done.

I will fab up two test pockets today and clamp them to ends of a pair of our eight foot riding cars and run them through the couple of the "s" curves we have into sidings to see if it all works out with no binding.

The last public run weekend of the year was this weekend past so now I can get back to the shop for my stuff and not club stuff. Thank goodness this is the only place in Canada that doesn't get any winter to speak of so we have six months to do track repairs and updates spread out at a pace that is fun and not work, leaving plenty of time for ourselves and our own projects.

You know it is one of those eureka moments when you look closely at the picture of the coupler pocket on their website and you can see the traces of the welded on plate on the end of the coupler pocket. I am not sure of the depth of the pockets but they look in the six to seven inch depth range. I will start at seven and cut them back until they work.

The facia's look great and are only $13.39 each and the pockets are an easy fabrication with a couple of bucks of rectangular tube and shop scrap.

Thanks again for your quick reply. I will let you know how it turns out.

Dave C.
President Vancouver Island Model Engineers

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:24:46 -0000
From: "Filbert"

Subject: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Dave,

I went to the club today and took some measurments.

The total pocket depth is 5 inches. This is from the front of the casting to which the pocket is flush, to the back of the pocket. The total length from the front of the coupler to the back of the coupler screw is 10.25 inches with the coupler closed. There is approximately 1.75 inches of screw/spring exposed behind the coupler pocket. The lock nut is all the way at the end of the screw with no threads exposed. The width of the pocket is 3 inches.

We run some tight curves and the couplers seem to work fine without binding or pulling the cars off the tracks.

Hope this helps,
Phil

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:57:45 -0700
From: "Dave C"

Subject: RE: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Phil

Thanks for the quick reply.

I was going to pick up some steel tube today but was side tracked, so to speak, by a fire on the club site.

It seems that during some afternoon repairs to the 1890's Grand Trunk railroad coach (12" to the foot) a dull drill bit started a fire inside the wall. No one noticed until eight o'clock last night when it smoldered enough to break through the floor and get an oxygen supply and off it went. Just lucky that it was training night at the fire hall and everybody was there, dressed up and ready to go and at the scene in just moments. Damage limited to the vertical pocket between two window sections and the wall pocket on each side under the windows. It was just half an inch from burning through into the ceiling and if it got there we would have lost the coach I think.

Poor buggers restoring the coach as they were just months from finishing a complete interior restoration and now it smells like heck in the thing and it will have to have a complete repaint after the repairs. One of the fellows who is finishing an HO model logging display layout in the coach was quite discouraged as the smell is now a permanent part of his layout.

It was mentioned that you hauled over 2600 people in four hours, WOW, that is a fair chunk of live freight. What is the time from start to finish for a public ride? We are just not that ambitious, we will get about two thirds of that and spread it out over a six hour period. It takes fifteen to twenty minutes to do the mainline here so to get those sorts of numbers we have to have six or seven trains in constant operation. Our numbers were light last weekend with just over 2000 over the two days. I like that the best as it gives time to chat and play a bit without a backup in the station.

I will get at the caboose frame/coupler project tomorrow, and again thanks for all your help.

Dave C.

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:09:29 -0700
From: Phillip Cohen

Subject: RE: Re: Roll Model 2.5" couplers



Dave,

Sorry to hear about your coach. Guess you can't be too careful when working around old wood structure. No telling what may catch fire. Glad you caught it on time though.

Yes it was a bit of a busy day for us with 2601 passengers being a new record haul. We had 4 large trains running. The big hauler was an RMI Sweetcreek pulling 3 each RMI E scale 10 foot cars and 2 each 2.5" scale 8 foot cars plus an E scale work caboose that carries a few passengers plus the conductor.

http://www.southerncalifornialivesteamers.com/Show_Photo_Details.asp?id=2418

Those RMI cars are really something, built like a battleship. I have some property that I am selling and after it closes I will treat myself and get a few of them to go with my Prairie.

We also had 3 ea. 1.5" scale diesels (and SD40-2, SW1500 and an F7)running each pulling 6 ea. 6 foot cars. We also had a Pacific Electric Red Car running that pulled a single 6 foot passenger car. The loop we take the public on is just slightly under a mile. We have a spur that we sometimes take them on with a turntable at the end which is 1700 feet in each direction so it adds another 20 to 30 minutes to that trip. The fun part is to work the timing so you don't have to sit waiting to get into the station. Was a beautiful day with lots of sunshine and mild temp in the low 70s. Could not have asked for a nicer time.

Maybe you can come visit some time.

Phil

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:44:00 -0000
From: "a920enco"

Subject: Bell and harp wanted



I am on the hunt for a Bell and Harp for my 7.5"gauge 1.5" scale LE CP Huntington.

Anybody have a spare in their tool kit they would like to sell?

Thanks in advance
William

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:53:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: MERLE MILLER

Subject: Re: Bell and harp wanted



If you make a wooden pattern and send it to me, I will cast one for you.
Merle.

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:39:14 +0000
From: matt.g@att.net

Subject: Re: Bell and harp wanted



I have a bell casting that i would be willing to give you, i had them cast in bronze so ther a little more orangie colored than brass. you could bend up a harp from flat strap but thats up to you. If your interested send me an email at matt.g@att.net with your mailing info and i'll mail it to you, if you like it just send me the shipping cost if not just mail it back to me and will call it even.

Matt Gardner
Colorado

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:39:36 -0700
From: "Daniel F Morris"

Subject: Trip To Sacramento Valley Live Steamers & Much More!



To All:

I have just begun posting HDV 1080i from my recent trip to Sacramento Valley Live Steamers Fall Meet. I took a detour as I was there a couple of days early. Went to San Francisco via "The Capitol Corridor", Bart to Millbrea, Cal Train's "Baby Bullet" to S.F., The Cable Cars & Museum. I also videoed and rode "The Museums in Motion" on their "F" line. Plenty of train action (Cab-Ride) Sacramento Light Rail & SVLS's Fall Meet will be posted this week. The detour began at 5:30 am & ended 12 hrs later. I was very tired to say the least, but it was a blast!
Check this out at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/css903

ENJOY!
Dan Morris

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:11:33 -0700
From: "Daniel F Morris"

Subject: Trip To Sacramento Valley Live Steamers & Much More! Additional HD Videos Added



To All:

I have posted more HDV 1080i from my recent trip to Sacramento Valley Live Steamers Fall Meet. I took a detour as I was there a couple of days early. Went to San Francisco via "The Capitol Corridor", Bart to Millbrea, Cal Train's "Baby Bullet" to S.F., The Cable Cars & Museum. I also videoed and rode "The Museums in Motion" on their "F" line. Plenty of train action (Cab-Ride) Sacramento Light Rail & SVLS's Fall Meet will be posted this week. The detour began at 5:30 am & ended 12 hrs later. I was very tired to say the least, but it was a blast!
Check this out at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/css903

There'll be a few more additions over the next few days. Check them out!
Also my Live Steaming site at http://www.sscom.org/pnwls.html

ENJOY!
Dan Morris

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:37:30 -0000
From: "Mark"

Subject: new to group



Hello Group!! My Name is Mark. I am in Winston-Salem, NC. I have been in the hobby since 1995 and bought my first steam lomotive in 1999. I am thinking of making the switch between 1 1/2'' scale to 2 1/2'' Narrow guage. So I joined your group to gain some knowledge and ideas.

I do have a railroad on my property with 1900' feet of track. I have been planning on building a new steam loco for the last two years. Having trouble deciding. I think I have narrowed it down and would like to build a K-36 2 1/2'' scale for 7 1/2'' gauge.
When my railroad is complete it will be a mountainous layout with three seperate 2.5 percent grades and one 3 percent grade. A tunnel roughly 190' long and several tresles. I think the railroad would be a great workout for this style locomotive.

I am just hunting info on where to begin. I have read that Tom Miller has drawings of the loco, but then read elsewhere those were sold to a man in Texas. I see the Roger Golmann has a set or drawings. I didn't know if there were major differances in between the two sets.

I I was hoping the group could steer me in the right direction of who to contact first.

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:36:44 -0700
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Re: new to group



Dennis Weaver has them now along with some Of the castings, he lives in Port Orchard Wa
And is a member of Train Mountain Railroad

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:06:43 -0700
From: Peter Moseley

Subject: Re: new to group



The drawings and patterns and parts are with Bill Dobbs and Dennis Weaver. Dennis has them at his place in Washington.
He is making one and they want to sell kits so that is the place to start. 360-620-2933

Peter Moseley

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:32:35 -0700
From: "Ken"

Subject: RE: new to group



Dennis Weaver is also a member of Kitsap Live Steamers in Port Orchard, WA.

Ken Olsen

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:00:25 -0000
From: "Mark"

Subject: Re: new to group



Hey, Thank everybody. I have already joined the Narrowgaugebuilder group. Thanks for the number Peter I will call first of the week. I'll let you know what I find out.

Mark

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:32:46 -0000
From: "rghtathome"

Subject: 3-3/4" scale Products....



Can anyone tell me where to get 3-3/4" scale products: trucks, couplers wheels?
Thanks
Rghtathome

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:09:49 -0000
From: "rghtathome"

Subject: 3-3/4" scale suppliers



Does anyone know who supplies 3-3/4" scale trucks, couplers, wheels etc.
Thanks
Rghtathome

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Grinnell

Subject: Re: 3-3/4" scale suppliers



R M I
And then go to Fr. Finelli's web site of suppliers

AMB

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 03:43:39 -0000
From: "lineshaft2000"

Subject: Re: new to group



Mark,
This just showed up on Discovery Live Steam For Sale Page.

2-1/2" scale D&RGW K-36 Mikado 2-8-2 Project

D&RGW K-36 Mike 2-8-2 21/2" Scale by Miller Locomotive Works -Reluctantly selling due to health reasons-castings, misc. parts, and cad drawings. Castings are rough except where noted. There are many small parts already made that are included. $17,000. Buyer pays shipping from Abingdon, VA. I will crate for shipment.

Use form below to contact me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/forsale/locomotive.html

Good Luck,
Dave Fontes

Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:58:22 -0000
From: "Twofoot"

Subject: Moors Valley in the UK?



Hello fellows. Is there a book on the little railway? I'd like to build some of their open coaches, but dimensions and scale plans seem to be a little hard to find. I really need to emigrate to the UK. LOL

Anyone know where to look for these?

Thanks
Chris

Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:24:30 +0000
From: Roy Stevens

Subject: RE: Moors Valley in the UK?



Are you referring to the largish gondolas with center plank seat that are the mainstay of their passenger stock? Their gons look to be around 24-28" wide and the length looks to be 6-7'. They don't follow any prototype that I'm aware of and must be very heavy to allow for the width and flexible seating arrangement. Most of their locos are proto-lanced as well, with major compromises of scale made for the rigors of heavy use. Only in the U.K. can a miniature railway become a profitable attraction.

Roy

Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:41:00 -0000
From: "michael"

Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Chris, why not ask them directly: sales@moorsvalleyrailway.co.uk

I understand their coaches are ballasted with concrete.
Cheers,
Michael Guy
Toronto

Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:26:32 -0000
From: "Twofoot"

Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Hi Roy. Your statement interests me. Out of curiosity, why do you think that? There does seem to be an abundance of light railways in the UK, but I think one would work here in the states if it was in the right location.

Cheers,
Chris

Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoffrey Kail

Subject: Re: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Chris,

Try and get the insurance and fight off the constant lawyers assaulting you for scratched fingers and spilled coffee.

Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: MERLE MILLER

Subject: Re: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



The cost of insurance in the U.S. for a train operation puts it in jeopardy from the start. Then the small town politicians want to control and tax everything. What else do you need to know?

Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:21:11 +0000
From: Roy Stevens

Subject: RE: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



The main reason is the fact that the Brits LOVE their railways. They finanaced and built a brand new mainline steam locomotive because all the examples of that particular class had been scrapped. Preservationist railways are everywhere in the UK and they all seem to have the capital to restore and maintain steam locos. We need public funding for even the most scenic and historically significant lines where they find an abandoned line from nowhere to nowhere and make it work. I took two trips over there in the 80's when a foreigner could buy a single pass that gave you a ticket to any passenger train Britrail ran and we visited almost every slim gauge railway that could be accessed from Britrails network. They have a 15" gauge railway that is a common carrier.

Americans don't have the fascination with railroads or preservation that the Brits do. There is a local private RR that is extremely well funded and the owner tried making it a financial success with 7.5" and 24" gauge lines, a handcar track, mini golf, and even a small ferris wheel. He's now open one weekend a month during the summer while he concentrates on businesses that actually make money. Talk to some clubs that are open to the public and find out what their ridership is GIVING AWAY rides and decide if you could make a go of it if you had to with 50% of that business in paying customers which is optimistic IMHO.

If someone gave me a quarter million in capital and told me that I needed to use it to start a business giving rides on 7.5" gauge trains, I'd try to form a partnership with HIT entertainment to follow one of their full size Thomas' around the country. I don't know what happened to the Great American Train Show but that would have been a good one too, and with a lot less legal problems. I really don't see a miniature train being able to anchor an amusement park in this country. If it weren't for the deep pockets of some dedicated hobbyists, Train Mountain would be selling housing plots to make ends meet.

Roy

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:09:31 -0400
From: SZuiderveen@aol.com

Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Hi Merle. I've actually had some very positive discussions with local politicians in my area for such an attraction. You can also get an insurance rider through the town for major liability.

Not as crazy an idea as you might think if it done right.

Chris

I am secretary for a group that has had a long and reasonably sucessful relationship with a medium-large east coast city in a park. There is no way that our city would cover us with their own insurance; and several years ago, when the Mayor hired a specialist to try to make budgets meet, he wanted into our donation box for 50% "in order to do our part to help out the city." He (and that Mayor) are fortunately gone now, but remember, every four years or so you will effectively have a new landlord with new priorities.

Also, in our state, to go "non-donation" (paid tickets), and to operate as often as it could take to have critical-mass would put us in the Amusement Park section of our Department of Labor, Licensing, and Regulations. Very onerous.

Remember the lesson of Scranton, PA in the 1980's on a larger scale. Once Mayor McNulty was gone, Steamtown Foundation was at the whim of local governments that used it to grab land to build a mall, and once the Foundation could not be used for any more political purposes, the local politicians arranged for their Congressman to make it a ward of the National Park Service. And there is no Steamtown Foundation any more.

Steve

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:24:12 -0000
From: "rowland49"

Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Hello Chris,

Cultivate any good relationships you can with the local city officials. I would recommend that you start with getting either a solid committment concerning liability coverage from the city, or, a comfirmation from an underwriter on your eligibility as an insured. Either way, you will have to meet their criteria in order to qualify and that will provide you with a list of minimum operating, equipment, and facility standards will you have to meet in order to secure coverage. Often that list will include items that folks sometimes miss in their preparations.

What state, county, and local agencies (if any) will excorcise safety oversight of your operation?

Will it be for profit, or non-profit?

Will the governmental and oversight agencies classify you as an amusement?

I've been out of the loop for awhile, but as recent as a few years ago, the starting price for a commercial policy for an amusement was $25,000 for a basic policy. Once you have established a good track record, that may drop substantially.

If I were going to start a public operation that was going to run on a regular basis (more than two or three times a month) I would not build unless I could find the room to support a 15" gauge pike.

You can do anything you want, you just have to have the patience to negotiate the maze.

Good luck,
Rowland

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:44:17 -0000
From: "michael"

Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Rowland,
You are so right!
In my case:

- 8 years and counting.
- Located in a downtown Toronto park (arguably the most expensive real estate in the country) across from the CN Tower.
- The park is already reconfigured and 99% of the track already laid.
- 7-1/4" & 7-1/2" gauge.
- 2200 foot run.
- Opening June 2010.

In truth, it can be done, see us at: www.trha.ca/news.html

Regards,
Michael Guy

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:06:58 +1100
From: grpfuzz@optusnet.com.au

Subject: MTP Dies



Hello all,

This may be a silly question, I just started using MTP threads (Im in Australia, straight ME threads are more common) and it seems i have to put nearly 0.5" of thread on a pipe (eg 5/16") to allow a fitting (in this case a superscale valve) to be screwed onto the pipe. This is with the DIE screwed to smallest size in the holder. The result is a beautiful scale fitting and a pipe with an extra scale 3" of thread on it!! It does not look prototypical. Am i using the wrong die? (standard 1/16NPT) Does everyone have this same problem? I ended up using a superscale nipple solded to the pipe!! What do you guys do?

Any advice would be great!!

Regards
Greg In AUS.

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:30:19 -0400
From: "Custmachr"

Subject: RE: MTP Dies



The first thought that comes to mind is to cut the female threads deeper to allow a shorter amount of threads (larger diameter) on the male part to fit. Depending on the female fitting you may have to grind off some of the tap to create more of a bottoming tap. If this does not work I would look for a different die. Even though they should be, they are not always sized the same.

Tim

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:54:16 -0700
From: Chuck

Subject: RE: MTP Dies



Take Tim's idea of die size one step farther and measure the resulting threads and compare to "standard" thread diameters. Then you will know why your threads don't look like they should.

Chuck

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:06:00 EDT
From: GengH@aol.com

Subject: Re: MTP Dies



Most taps and dies from reputable manufacturers are made to close tolerances in the NPT series.. I have had some questionable taps and dies in the smaller ME series 3/16 and 1/4" . It would be interesting to hear what Superscale has to say about this problem. Their products are high quality. It is too bad they are so hard to contact by E-mail. I'll try and call them tomorrow and see what they say.
Are you aware of what are known as short projection pipe taps? They are much shorter than standard and are made for tapping pipe fittings such as elbows where a standard length tap will bottom before cutting to the correct diameter. They are available in the 1/16 NPT size but are expensive about $28. I don't see why you can't grind the tap shorter, except I would hate to do it to a Superscale valve.

George in Washington State

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:10:59 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



we traveled there in '03 and i got all inspired. i just finished my "ride-in-cab" engine. see "fred's stuff" in the photo section. they do use concrete in their riding cars for stability.

as to train parks we are doing that down in Alabama. see www.waleswest.com
i'm a volunteer there building the 7 1/2 track. the owner isn't charging to ride our track if you ride the 2 ft ga. i think he pays about 3K for insurance but i'm not sure.

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:27:42 -0400
From: rghtathome@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?



Wales West doesn't come up.....Invalid website....

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:11:05 -0000
From: "john_oxlade"

Subject: 5 inch wheel standards



I know this is "small stuff", but a friend has asked if there are published standards for 5" gauge wheels like the 7.25" gauge society publishes them for 7.25".

Any ideas?
Thanks,
John

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:42:56 -0400
From: "Custmachr"

Subject: RE: 5 inch wheel standards



See the link below.
www.colinusher.info/Livesteam/track.html

Tim

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:15:29 +1100
From: grpfuzz@optusnet.com.au

Subject: Re: Re: MTP Dies



Thanks Guys,

I think i will try to get another Die and see how that goes. I like the idea of the short projection taps. Im not really keen to start cutting into the thread on my prize superscale jewellery. I assume superscale thread depth is correct!!

Regards
Greg in Aus

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:26:55 +1100
From: grpfuzz@optusnet.com.au

Subject: Re: RE: 5 inch wheel standards



try this link

http://www.pnc.com.au/~wallison/AALS/

Greg

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:35:32 +1300
From: John Oxlade

Subject: Re: 5 inch wheel standards



Thanks for the responses they are much appreciated.
John

Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:18:57 EDT
From: GengH@aol.com

Subject: Re: MTP Dies



I was unable to call Superscale. Their only contact is mail or FAX and I do not use FAX.
George