Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 06:27:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Casper
Subject: Re: Bryant turnout
Doug, nice job. Looks like a lot of extra work!
Tom C.
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:43:47 -0000
From: "edgarcorny"
Subject: Re: Bryant turnout
Hi,
Yes it was a lot of work. However, I had a drive to build one of these beasts and felt good after it was completed. I doubt that I'll ever build another.
My health is to the point that I doubt I'll ever use it (I might need to get out of 7.5" all together), but I am talking to the Bedford & Billerica historical group about donating to them as a working display.
Any interest out there to see photos of my stub double-slip turnout with three of the four paths dual gauge (4.75 and 7.5)?
Doug vV
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:44:32 +0000
From: Phil Ashworth
Subject: Re: Bryant turnout
A big yes please to the stub double-slip turnout pics!
Phil Ashworth
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:51:07 -0500
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: Bryant turnout
I will second that. I love photos of track work.
I can see why the Bryant did not become popular. Hard to figure out how it operates, or if it had any useful advantages. I guess being able to "trail through" with only a "bump" and not a derail would be an advantage.
Bruce
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:04:37 +1300
From: Chris Draper
Subject: Re: Bryant turnout
I'd also love to see photos - I have a similar hankering to build one and a place to justify one!
Chris
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:26:05 -0000
From: "Roy"
Subject: Bill Jensen News Letters
Hi All,
Thought I would pass this along to you. I copied the following from another group and pasted here:
All
Almost done with the NG&SLHS newsletters.
Book will be close to 160 pages. I'm adding as many photos as I can (these are Jensen photos from his trips to Maine in the 1970s).
There were no photos used in the original newsletters.
Prepub price of $29.95 postage paid in the US is good until November 14.
Also, any one interested in Erecting Drawings (Elevation & Section Views) of SR&RL #10 or #23 should contact Gary.
Regards,
Roy
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:51:41 -0000
From: "edgarcorny"
Subject: Re: Bryant turnout
Over at the NGDF, there is a long and interesting discussion on stub turnouts. In addition to the standard stub and the stub double-slip I built. A fellow posted a photo of the SPNG in Laws CA when the stub turnouts still existed. The photo shows a a right hand stub facing away from the camera connected to a 3-way stub going under the camera. The short length of stub rails are only held in place by gauge bars and it appears to by a 6-way connection whereas the double slip is "only" a 4-way connection!
Doug vV
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 03:44:46 +0000
From: Roy Stevens
Subject: RE: Bryant turnout
What's a NGDF? How about a link to that very interesting photo?
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:05:02 -0000
From: "edgarcorny"
Subject: Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum
Hi,
I visit so many forums and groups, I sometimes forget to define certain terms. Sorry about that.
NGDF is the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. It is mostly centered around the Colorado Rockies where the last surviving common carrier railroads lasted the longest with steam.
However, we get posts about the Hawiian lines, the White Pass, Sumpter Valley and even some of the two footers at times.
And finally, the Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge (nee- Carson & Colorado) with an EXTREME stub double-slip. (The TV shows and seem to want to use EXTREME in the title ox everything so I guess I can too )
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 07:35:34 -0800
From: "Daniel F Morris"
Subject: Trip To Sacramento Valley Live Steamers & Much More!
To All:
I have posted HDV 1080i from my September trip to Sacramento Valley Live Steamers Fall Meet. I took a detour as I was there a couple of days early. Went to San Francisco via "The Capitol Corridor", Bart to Millbrea, Cal Train's "Baby Bullet" to S.F., The Cable Cars & Museum. I also videoed and rode "The Museums in Motion" on their "F" line. Plenty of train action (Cab-Ride) Sacramento Light Rail & SVLS's Fall Meet are posted . The detour began September 25th at 5:30 am & ended 12 hrs later. I was very tired to say the least, but it was a blast! I have also posted HDV of the "Fall Meet" at Vancouver Island Model Engineers held in early October.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:14:20 +1300
From: "Chris Draper"
Subject: Compounding debate
Hi all,
The conversation around the lunch table turned to the viability of compounding this last Sunday.
Someone had mentioned a South African Garrat was successful with a firebox reheater for steam travelling between cylinder sets, while someone else voiced their doubt at the viability of compounding given we are restricted to 100psi here in NZ.
There ensued an interesting discussion, but it was all second-hand expertise as none of us has built a Garrat or Mallet or any compound prototype that would demand the decision.
So I wondered what experience members of this forum may be able to draw upon and extend my knowledge on this very interesting subject?
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:44:19 -0500
From: rghtathome@aol.com
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
Does not pertain to Locomotives...
However, in the power plant idustry new plants have been built with Reheaters;
Whereas the Exhaust steam from the Seam Turbine returns to the boiler, makes a few passes through and then gets combined with Intermediate steam and returns to the Steam Turbine...
For what that is worth...
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:27:49 -0000
From: "fredvv44"
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
i saw a compound at a meet once. he had problems with the high pressure engine slipping a lot before the low pres. ones got going. he ended up adding a chain drive between the 2 engines to force them to work together. the engine never ran at the meet so i cannot comment on that.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:57:55 -0000
From: "edgarcorny"
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
The prototype also had the same problems until the low pressure cylinders had steam in them.
Many prototypes handled this by using a by-pass valve to the low pressure cylinders injecting high pressure steam direct until both engines were working. It worked as two simple steam engines.
Once the locomotive was moving, the bypass was shut off and the locomotive then worked as a compound.
Doug vV
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:59:36 -0000
From: "chuckhoelzen"
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
Compounding puts a large load on the engineer to balance power until everything is warmed up and then the savings starts. Managing high pressure bypass to the second stage must have been a real art for the engineers.
I think the only compound engines that really worked were the inline and parallel compounds on each driver.
I did see several compounds running on labor day at Old Thrashers in Iowa. (none on locos) Very impressive stationary Coreless 16"/36" bore and several steam tractors.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:31:14 +1300
From: "Chris Draper"
Subject: Re: Re: Compounding debate
The K1 - the original Garrat built for 2ft Tasmanian Railways had a simpling valve for starting too. Aparently crews liked it becuase it was very sure footed. If the high pressure set let go the intermediate pipe pressure would rise and settle the engine. If the low pressure set let go the pressure would quicly drop and therefore also settle the engine. The loco was 35 tons and could pull 150 T of train up a 1 in 27 grade (27%) while negotiating 1 1/2 chain radius curves (30m or 90ft)
Chris
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:44:12 -0600
From: Doug DeBerg
Subject: Re: Re: Compounding debate
Chris, I think if you recalculated the percent of grade you would come up with 3.70% not a 27% grade which would require a rack type locomotive to climb. Percent of grade is the amount of rise or fall vertically from level in a horizontal distance of 100 units. In your example the 1 in 27 would be how many times 27 goes into 100. On radius 1 1/2 chains would be 99 ft. as a chain is 66 feet long and each link in a chain of which there are 100 links are 7.92" long.
Doug De Berg
Rock Creek Railway Company
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:18:05 +1300
From: "Chris Draper"
Subject: Re: Re: Compounding debate
Thanks Doug - typo on my part - need more coffee!
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:36:07 EST
From: GengH@aol.com
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
I question how practical compounding is on our scale model engines. It really was not all that practical on full size locomotives. Look at how many were converted back to simples.
Besides the starting problem on articulated locos we generally do not have enough superheat to prevent condensation in the low stage cylinders especially since we run a steam pressures much lower than full scale..
Has anyone ever tried to build a fake compound? Bush down the large low stage cylinders to the same bore as the high stage cylinders and plumb it to run simple. It would still look like a compound but without its problems.
I do not know if this would solve the starting problems.
Just an idea!
George Hoke
Bellevue, WA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:41:16 +1300
From: Chris Draper
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
Thanks George,
I think you have summed up the sentiment of most of the regular Winter Creek crew. the net effect is then to size the boiler to run four cylinders instead of two I guess.
Chris
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:42:22 -0000
From: "edgarcorny"
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
As I recall (I might not have this correct), During the late 1940's when PRR was experimenting with unusual steam configurations (4-6-4-4, 4-4-6-4, 6-4-4-6, etc), PRR came up with an automated "switch" to change from high pressure to low pressure steam automatically. As with so many items this late in steam development, the idea worked but there was not enough time to work out the minor bugs to make it a slam dunk befor diesels came.
If I could recall where I read this, I'd look it up to be sure. I think it was in the PRR Q2 4-6-4-4 book.
The PRR Q2 was successful enough that the PRR canceled 26 4-10-2s (I think) and built 26 Q2s (c1947-1948). If steam had continued it is believed that this (especially with La Porta's innovations added in) would have been like the Lima Super-Power was earlier in the 1900's.
For what it's worth.
Doug vV
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:19:29 +0000
From: Roy Stevens
Subject: RE: Compounding debate
Taking a quick look at my T-s diagrams for water (steam) tells me that a compound 'should' work at 100psi (8 bar) operating at a temperature of 250 C if the exit pressure of the high pressure side doesn't drop below 4 bar and is reheated to over 200 C before entering the low pressure set. It's that reheat stage that is so critical when operating close to the saturation line. The low relative speed and power that we tend to operate at actually complicate boiler management in a compound loco. Is anyone aware of a true compound that was used in high speed mainline service? All the examples I'm aware of were used in slow speed helper service.
Roy
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:48:51 -0000
From: "john_oxlade"
Subject: Events in New Zealand
Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of all miniature railway events in New Zealand for 2010? If not, and you have your events, email them to me and I can create a single list.
My wife and I are just trying to organise our calendar for next year and we don't want to miss something good!
Thanks,
John
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:23:16 -0500
From: Garrattguy
Subject: Re: Compounding debate
Roy,
You probably want to look at Chapelon's work in France for high-speed compounding. There is a discussion and locomotive comparisons in the English edition of his book "La Locomotive a Vapeur" chapter 12. He gives a chart showing steam consumption figures at 150 and 300 rpm of his 141P 75 (a 2-8-2), the Pennsy T1 and a few others. Interesting reading.
Regards,
Michael Guy
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:15:19 -0000
From: "chrisgrallelis"
Subject: Koppel Rack Locomotive.
Hi,
I am new at this so just hope I get this right.
I am building a 5 inch Krauss. I have picked my next engine that I would like to build which is the Koppel Rack loco 040.I saw some write ups on this site some time ago. I did send some money to an address with a letter requesting 2 CD's with plans and drawing but it has been months now no info back.I have most of the write ups that Ken swan put in the magazine.
I am in Australia and belong to a model engineering club,
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:27:17 -0000
From: "coulit20"
Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?
Hello all, and apologies that I've been absent for a while....
I'm regularly at the Moors Valley and can measure coach (car) dimensions as you need (I'm there most Tuesday evenings, including this week). The coaches are (roughly) 8ft long and come in two widths - 24 inch and 26 inch and have a slab of concrete cast between the bogie centres. All have a long centre seat and in the last few years have had truss rods added to increase stability and prevent overturning in an accident. Check out the photos on the website, though these don't show the truss rods.
My own loco has been out of service whilst we try to cure a persistent habit of de-railing. It visited the nearby Eastleigh Lakeside Railway to be weighed on their weighbridge and have some other suspension modifications and is now back home. With luck I should road test it in the next week or so and hopefully it should be ready for traffic. There is some YuTube footage worth seeing of ist holiday at Eastleigh however at:
which proves the loco actually works! There are other youtube clips showing the recent "Garratt Gathering" at the Moors which included the scale model of East African Railways No 5918 "Mount Kilimanjiro" a 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 Garratt: all 18 feet of it!! Start with this clip and check the related clips (we also had an "American Weekend" in the summer):
Let me know if you need any measuring done or "Moors Valley" quesitons answered.
Happy steaming,
Tim
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:36:12 EST
From: GengH@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?
I could not access the video of the Garratts. Something about a bad address. Could you please check it. I'd really like to see it.
Thanks
George in the USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:28:43 -0500
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?
There was an extra "." at the end of the link. The "corrected" link works fine. Good video, and it looks to be quite a nice and powerful locomotive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnBJfenHFA
Also, check out the related YouTube videos. Nice.
Bruce
Kirkwood, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:58:50 -0000
From: "coulit20"
Subject: Re: Moors Valley in the UK?
Hi George,
Apologies for slow response - try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnBJfenHFA
Let me know if it works as I'm never sure that the links paste properly.
All the best,
Tim
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:36:40 -0000
From: "sou610"
Subject: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
Hello All
My name is Michael Barnard; I currently live in North Georgia in a small town called Chickamauga. (Site of the famous Civil War Battle) I work full time for the Tennessee Valley Railroad museum and I am a licensed steam locomotive engineer. About 30 years ago I build a 1.5" scale bobber caboose and gondola. I also had about 200' of track but never got a locomotive.
A friend of mine through the RR museum is building a 1.5" scale 2-8-2. He has done a beautiful job with it. I am really impressed especially since his profession was accounting and a musician. He knows that I am interested in such things, so we have been talking about me getting involved with such a project.
I am in the process of raising the money to buy a metal lathe and hopefully will have it before Christmas. While I like 1.5" scale, I really don't like ridding on the locomotive. I would rather ride in the tender so to speak. I guess that comes from operating real ones everyday.
I was thinking about building a 2-4-4 in 3.75" scale, but it would be very big and expensive. So now I am exploring the possibility of 2.5" scale. I have thought about building a reasonable replica of the EBT M4 that would be battery powered. There would also be a flat car or two and a bobber caboose. That would get me going with something to tinker with at the club track in Dunlap TN.
What I really want to build is a steam locomotive. It could be something as simple as a 0-4-0 tank-mining engine or a 3-foot gauge 2-6-2 like the EBT's number 11.
What I need help with is fining some prints for something to build and a list of suppliers. I have found suppliers for couplers and other misc. appliances, but none for a steam locomotive kit and or drawings and castings.
I was hopping that with all the expertise on this group that some individuals could point me in the right direction.
Thanks for your input
Michael
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 03:44:48 -0000
From: "fredvv44"
Subject: Re: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
welcome to a wonderful hobby and a lifetime of learning. i share your feelings about the driving position so i built this engine:
it is a British NG but could be done as an American style just as easily.
Fred V
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:24:30 -0000
From: "MICHAEL"
Subject: Re: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
Hi Fred,
What did you use for Plans and any parts available for this loco?
Whate Scale is it? Where/when do you run this loco?
Thnakz
Michale
Floriduh
USA
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:21:22 -0000
From: "michael"
Subject: Re: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
Fred,
That looks suspiciously like a heavily modified Tinkerbell with aspirations of being a Maine two-foot 2-6-XX.
My Romulus-based ride-in-cab 2-4-0+0-4-2 Garratt has been at a standstill for several years waiting for for sets of valve gears .... one of these days ....
Cheers,
Michael Guy
Toronto.
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:53:57 -0000
From: "fredvv44"
Subject: Re: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
i drew the plans on AutoCad and used wheel/cyl. parts that were on hand. my engine could be built from Roll Models castings just as easily.
i guess you would call it 3 3/4" scale based on a 2 ft. prototype. go to:
i run at waleswest.com in So. Alabama and come up to Canton, Ga. and Columbia, Tn. have you contacted the No. Ga. Livesteamers? they are building a new track and the Canton group has a beautiful track. here is a vid link at Canton.
i would be glad to assist you any way i can.
Fred
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:05:35 -0000
From: "Peter Beevers"
Subject: Re: Re: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
Fred,
Moors Valley (and I, who have built something similar) would call this type of loco 12"=1', it's just that the gauge is very narrow. Easy to build and GREAT fun!!!
On New Year's Day, I'm supporting the Everyman Campaign, working to eradicate male cancers.
Come and ride the steam trains at Swanley Park, or donate at: http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Beevers
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:09:40 -0000
From: "fredvv44"
Subject: Re: 2.5" Scale drawings & Parts
yes, the guys there said that to me as they aren't really a scale model but just loosely based on some engine. really neat Railway!
