7+-NGM-logo The

7-Plus-NGM Digest January 2003

Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 01:28:16 -0800
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Happy New Year

I'm a lurker, one of those that just listens and learns. From the bottom of my heart, I wish each and everyone of you a very happy new year, and may all your desires and dreams come true, mine have!

Chiloquin, Oregon

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:09:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Jones

Subject: castings

Hello everyone, I am wondering if anyone could tell me about how much they estimate the castings for the fitchburg northern or chloe would cost.
Thanks again - Tim

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:38:25 EST
From: w8604@aol.com

Subject: Re: castings

I am building a Fitchburg Northern. The total cost for castings is around $1500(US), but that doesn't include hardware and barstock needed to fabricate some additional parts. The cost for Chloe castings is about $1100. Both engines are supposed to be fairly simple for the first time builder.


Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:19:22 -0000
From: "shakeyjake45colt "

Subject: Brakewheels

To 7 plus group

Where can I find scale brakewhels of the D&RGW style?
Company name?


Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 07:33:35 -0800
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Brakewheels

2 1/2" scale - D&RGW style brakewheels, ratchet wheel, and pawls are available from Como Roundhouse Products. E-mail is . He also has lots of other goodies.
Howard Springer
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:42:06 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"
Subject: Sinsheim Indoor Live Steam Festival 2003

Hello all,

I just returned from the 7. Indoor Livesteam Festival in Sinsheim.

As every year, it was really nice to run our engines during the winter-time, especially this year with temperatures constant under the freezing point.

On saturday morning, Trevor Heath (http://www.livesteaming.com) visited the show and met with me. I was really pleased to meet him the first time.

But an absolute surprise for me was thursday evening, as I was asked by an american, where Hubert is. This person, who was asking, was Paul Garin of Roll Models.

I didn't know, that RMI was coming over the pond and had a booth at the show.

He was here with his family and some people from Cromar White from Great Britain, which are now the European agents for RMI.

They had brought with them a lot of rolling-stock (a complete D&RGW-train [40' flatcar, 30' stockcar, 30' gondola, workcaboose, Tiffany-reefer], a 4-wheel-weed-control car, 4 side-tip-gondolas, a handoperated "motorcar", a 25ton-engine including the unique riding-car, a speeder and at last a long trolley.

I was invited to operate every peace of equipment (except the handoperated car) on the 7.25" layout. Also, during the first two days, I had the stockcar, the flatcar and the tankcar cut into my train.

The trolley produced many smiles and flashlights, and now after operating it for some miles I'm able to do it again in june at Train Mountain.

Sadly, I lost my connecting-cable for my digital-camera, so I have to wait a couple of days, until I can produce a special-picture-page. I will mention it, when it's uploaded.

I had a great time with the folks of RMI and hope to see them again in Germany.

Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:35:24 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Picture-page about the 7th Indoor Live Steam Festival

Hello all,

as promised, I set up a special webpage with my pictures of the 7th Indoor Live Steam Festival in Sinsheim last weekend.

You can find it under


All the best

Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:01:49 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Picture-page about the 7th Indoor Live Steam Festival

Excellent, Hubert, excellent.

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:32 -0700
From: "Barry Bridges"

Subject: Re: Picture-page about the 7th Indoor Live Steam Festival

Hello Hubert,
I just got a chance to view the pix from the Sinsheim, Live Steam meet.
WOW !!!!
Thank you for sharing those pix with us.

Barry Bridges
A member of the MLS club in AZ
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:21:14 -0800

From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Load Binders

Does anyone know of a source for load or sometimes also called chain binders? I need about 40 for my project? No its not narrow gauge but 1.6 scale alto anything close to it would be better than what I have now.
Boyd Butler

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:27:11 -0600
From: "Thomas"

Subject: Re: Load Binders

Go to K Mart or some other discount store and look at the jewelry department. I have found small Stainless Steel neck chains for wearing crosses there that look like small log chains.
They are available at several different lengths.
The ones I found were not very expensive.

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:26:24 -0600
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Load Binders

I seem to remember an article in either Modeltec or Live Steam about building 1.6 scale log buggies. The article was titled "When NOELS Logged Off", or something like that. In the article were instructions on building load binders.

Bill Laird
General Superintendent of Operations
Wimberley, Blanco & Southern Railroad
"The Bluebonnet Route"

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:35:21 -0800
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Load Binders

Well found what will work ok maybe just right for smaller loads but very useful without one of the members help on this list I would still be looking for chain tightners or load binders ever which you choose to call them. That is the beauty of this hobby,several came up with ideas one of which panned out for me. And for those who would like the address to get some,they also have some chain they sell as logging chain that is nice sized also. http://www.gardentrucking.com
Boyd Butler

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:55:11 -0000
From: "dmmcomo "

Subject: Re: without one of the members help on this list I would still be looking

Boyd -

It is a great group for source information and we owe Hubert a continuing vote of thanks for getting us started.

I take it I can go back to running my business now and quit looking for your chain? {;-))

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhous Products

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:20:50 -0800
From: cj.trainer@juno.com

Subject: People

I'm looking for a source of about 14" tall dolls (2-1/2" scale) that look like 1880 railroad people to populate my new baggage and passenger cars.
Any sources?
Charlton Jones,
Canton, St.Paul and Pacific Railway

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:44:11 -0700
From: "Barry Bridges"

Subject: Re: People

Re: the 14" to 16" dolls ...
I found one, male with an almost correctly proportioned head to body ratio. I had a RR outfit made for it and he rides on the back platform of my 2 1/2" caboose.
I believe I found it in Micheals, the crafts' store, back in CT.
Good Luck,
Barry Bridges
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:10:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Rowland
Subject: Re: People

Try these folks. If they don't have what you want, they can most likely give you a referral. I've been buying supplies from them for 1" and 1.5" scale buildings.



Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:21:24 -0600
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: People

The "Ken" doll is 12" high which scales out to 4' 10" in 2 1/2" scale. A little short, but the best I have found. Ken dolls are cheap (less than $3 at discount stores) and some clothing is available. On the internet I have found white shirts and black suits which with addition of some "brass" buttons make conductor's outfits. Have not found denim overalls yet.

Bill Laird

Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:45:48 -0700
From: "Barry Bridges"

Subject: A question on Propane Conversion

Hello Group,
I am building a 2-6-0 Maxitrak narrow guage ( 2.5" scale on 7.5 track) kit. It is set up as a coal burner. In my new area, AZ- MLS club, I am thinking about converting to Propane.
1) size of propane bottle; either a 5lb. 8" dia. or an 11 lb. 12" dia. The 5 lb. will give me a better look on the back of my tender, BUT how long will it last for firing and running time... any shared experience on this will be greatly appreciated
2) my prototype for the tender is from the GLOVER STEAM LOCOMOTIVES book by Hillman, pgs.68 & 69.

So I can put a "work Cabin" on the back of the tender and use that as a storage unit for the propane tank... I would prefer the 8" dia vis the 12" of course, for looks. but am concerned about running time...
Thank You,
Barry Bridges

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:44:04 EST
From: USN1861@aol.com

Subject: Re: Propane Conversion

Hi Barry,

I am converting my Maxitrax 2-4-0 to propane. Most loco's around here (Indiana) that are propane carry the standard 30 LB propane tank on a separate car behind the tender. In one case this is a nicely done Baggage / Railway Post office car, that no one rides on.


Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:36:41 -0000
From: "dmmcomo "

Subject: Re: A question on Propane Conversion

Barry -

First off, let me say "DON"T"; I really think that propane firing of our live steam models is bad practice and VERY POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS!.

However, I know that a lot have done it for the cleanliness and convenience it provides, and most handle it safely, but it is still an accident waiting to happen with risks that don't apply to coal or oil firing.

I personally have seen a fire set by the propane supply on one locomotive that gave a large number or people serious burns and set off a wild fire in the California foothills that almost got out of control. I have also been running a propane fired locomotive that had it's supply hose (low pressure) come loose and spray fire like a blow torch.

The bigger that tank the better. If you live in cold country, you may not be able to run in winter. Propane freezes at a relaitvely high temperature and small tanks freeze quicker than large ones when they are expelling gas at the relatively high rates that steam locomotives require.

The California fire I mentioned earlier was caused by the locomotive owner using a steam line bleed in a coil around his tank to keep it warm; when the locomotive stalled in a cut the tank overheated and the safety popped, filling the cut with gas that laid on the ground until it reached the firebox where it ignited.
Since the loco was heading upgrade, most of the propane ran downhill under the riding cars!

The second thing to keep in mind is venting the propane car. The bottom of the car must be open so that any leaking gas can flow out the bottom (propane is heavier than air). If you ignore this, you risk having an enclosed tank and the car it is in becoming a BOMB. Also, don't forget safety chains so that if the coupling separates the hoses are not pulled apart bathing your posterior in raw gas....

Good luck!

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:18:35 -0800
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Propane

One thing about that gas is it gets very cold quick reducing your tank capacity,some run steam heat around the tank,the larger the tank the smaller the problem with it cooling off. There are those who know much more than I do about it though. The best is to use a car dedicated to it,make it a stock car with a removable lid,always use a draw bar or safety chain to it though because of the hoses.I don't think that a small tank will work at all for you except for a very short run.
Boyd Butler