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7-Plus-NGM Digest February 2001

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:22:11 -0000
From: "David Breaker"

Subject: Wanted


2nd hand 15inch or large regaugeable 10 1/4inch gauge equipment for private railway in Kent. Steam loco preferably British style, capable of seating 2 side by side, as with rolling stock. No speed requirements but reasonable turning distance would be good. Currently no line to run on so the line will be built to suit the equipment.
Please e-mail davidbreaker@aol.com with details (with dimensions). Thanks.

David Breaker

Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:23:23 -0000
From: "David Breaker"

Subject: new group


I have started a new group for passenger carrying garden railways at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/passenger-carrying-garden-railways

It is for anyone interested in railways in the garden or estate which are capable of carrying adults and children, normaly gauges 5inch and higher. It is ideal for anyone who owns a garden railway. Please feel free to advertise railway equipment of any gauge as passenger carrying garden railways can be from 3 1/2inches up!

So now you can join Passenger Carrying Garden Railways at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/passenger-carrying-garden-railways

Hope to see you soon.

David Breaker

Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:58:36 -0500
From: "mikell"

Subject: Re: new group

could be a nice group but yahoo is a pain not worth suffering


Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 15:41:22 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: new group

could be a nice group but yahoo is a pain not worth suffering


Would you like to chance a guess in WHAT system you sent your messafge to us?

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:12:06 -0000
From: minrail@hotmail.com

Subject: More Discussion Groups

I think the existing discussion groups cover too large a range of interest.
Some members of these groups may find a great proportion of the discussion is irrelevant to them. I have therefore taken it upon myself to form two new groups. These are intended to be of particular interest to UK & European members as I believe the USA is already well catered for. However anyone can join.

They are:

For 5in Gauge


For 7¼in Gauge



Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:29:55 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: new group

David -

Since it appears that you are from "across the pond", you may wish to contact Robin Falce ; he operates a very nice commercial layout not too far from London.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:08:29 -0600
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: photo updates SR & CL Railway

Finally some pictures of our new trestle are up at the web site. follow this link. http://members.home.net/melcaswell/pics2000.htm
Happy viewing.

Tom Casper

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:18:55 -0800
From: "Tom Keenan"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 237

Internet address for AK Railroads in Salt Lake City is www.akrailroad.

Tom Keenan

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 07:30:24 -0800
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Re: photo updates SR & CL Railway


What's all that green stuff in the background, it's still snowing here! :o) Great job on the trestle, looks terrific.

Chiloquin Oregon

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:27:55 EST
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: photo updates SR & CL Railway

Need a detailed blueprint on a Soo Caboose. Can you tell me where I may purchase one?

Doug Liggett

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:41:04 -0500
From: locopart

Subject: Re: photo updates SR & CL Railway

I don't have a blueprint, but am having a SOO caboose built for me right now, using the Kitsap LS steel kit. I am using an HO model I had and scaling from that. If you aren't a rivet counter, this worrks fine. Fi you will be at the florida runs in the next few weeks, you can look at it, if its ready to take with us this week.

Don Orr, Suffolk, Va
1-1/2" and 2-1/2" scale steam locomotive accessories, gas burners and tenders

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:58:47 -0600
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: photo updates SR & CL Railway

Sorry Doug, can't help. Look for a Soo list at Yahoo and see if they have anyone with plans.

Tom Casper

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:49:13 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Caboose Marker Lamps

Hello all,

sorry about this perhaps stupid question, but I need some informations:

For my caboose I have to scratchbuild the caboose-marker-lamps. To get the measuring, I ordered some 7/8" scale marker-lamps from Ozark. They are really nice and will give a good base for the 3" scale lamps.

This 7/8" scale lamps have 3 red and 1 green lens for every lamp.

What I still wish to know is, if the prototype lamps have the same colour configuration, and, if yes, in which direction the green light is showing, when the lamp is installed. And, are all lights lighting at the same time?

Thank you

Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:43:51 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

Hi Hubert:

I can help you with your question.
A marker lamp is just a "box" with one light source inside, oil or electric. When the light is on all four lenses are lit. Marker lamps all have lenses as you describe, though the proper distribution is 3 yellow or green and one red. The body of the lamp turns in the bracket to allow different colors to be displayed to the rear.

There are several purposes for the marker lamps, that go back to the time before train radio and Centralised Traffic Control signalling. The first is to actually designate a train. The rule books prior to the GCOR that we work under now, defined a Train as : "A locomotive, with or without cars, displaying markers". So....when a train is made up at its Initial Terminal, it has to have the markers hung, and lit at night, before it is really a train. Secondly, out on the road, if you are required by train order to meet or wait somewhere for a train, the markers are an indication that the whole train has arrived. If you don't see the (usually) engine number and markers that identify the train you are waiting for, you have to set still until the markers arrive. The purpose for this is that sometimes a train will break in two, and not be repairable on-line, and they will bring the disabled car up to the next siding to set it out. After doing that, they will return (with, or sometimes without, the cars they brought with them initially) to the rear portion of the train and pull the rest of it into the clear. This still happens today, but the Dispatcher will protect your movements with his CTC signals. You can replace a broken knuckle, but there is nothing you can do for a broken drawbar out on the road.

One of the most important reasons for the markers is to help prevent collisions. Neither they, nor a red CTC light will actually "prevent" you from going somewhere you don't belong, if you don't stop for them, though, whitness Casey Jones :>) When running (or stopped) on the main line, the colors are: red to the rear, and the other color to the front and sides. When you are stopped in a siding, in the clear of the mainline and the switch is lined and locked for the mainline, the markers are turned so that the red lens is toward the car body. The yellow or green lens is used it indicate to a following train that your train is "in the Clear" and it is safe to proceed on the mainline. The locomotive headlight is used in a similiar manner to indicate to oncoming trains, by extinguishing the light, that the whole train is in the clear, and it is safe to proceed down the mainline. The only time the markers are turned to yellow/green to the rear is if your train is in the siding. If you are on the mainline and being passed from the rear through the siding, your markers stay red to the rear. These rules are for single track mainline, when you get into multiple mainline, they get complicated.

Well, I have to go driving trains, with a little flashing red light on the rear of my train for a marker, and a Dispatcher to protect me (I hope, I hope). That should answer your question. If you really want to know more about markers or the use of the class lamps on the front of the loco, just ask.


Mike Decker, BNSF Rwy., Edgemont, SD

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:52:48 -0500
From: "Rich D."

Subject: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

If I follow what you are saying, the marker lamps are always on, green faces in the forward direction of train movement and red is always to the rear. The side facing colors can be what ever the individual RR rules require.
See my web page for a shot of my Atlantic's class lamps that are also an Adlake marker style.
These are scratch built of brass with 3V bipin Maglight lamps.

Rich D.

Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:21:41 -0800
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

You are a fount of knowledge. You pop up on nearly every e-mail list I belong to, and probably 30 or 40 others. Bravo for taking the time to share your experience and enthusiasm. (I hope we have a chance to meet face to face at our Grand Scale Convention in October!).

In issue #15 of GSQ (due out this Spring) we're planning on running an article that Ken Kukuk wrote about the construction of attractive and rather inexpensive marker lights that they use at the 15" Glenwood South Park & Pacific (among other RR's).
They are 5" scale, but I'm sure the same steps could be used on a 3" scale light. It isn't a model of a specific lantern, but it "looks right".

Since their equipment often runs at public places (such as the Redwood Valley Railway) he wanted to come up with a cheap and quick way to make an attractive and durable light. The basic material is PVC and ABS pipe fittings. Much of it is just a matter of assembly, though some of the parts are machined to shape.

They do look good after they've been painted. I'd been walking past them and admiring them for years before I learned that they weren't metal. I was surprised.

All the Best,

Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:42:56 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

Oh man, just what I need another magazine subscription! Is there any way these would be published elsewhere? I know it's your magazine, but I don't run 12" trains so most of the other articles wouldn't be as useful as the marker light one.

Stan Z.

Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:30:08 -0800
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps


Is there any way these would be published elsewhere?

I don't believe so. But you can purchase single issue for $6 (postage paid). Drop me a line in April to make sure that #15 is theissue with that article.

I know it's your magazine, but I don't run 12" trains so most of the other articles wouldn't be as useful as the marker light one.

A good many 7 1/2" gaugers subscribe to GSQ, not because they intend to build 12" or 15" gauge equipment, but because they do enjoy reading about it. There are scores more of these railroads around the country than any of us had guessed a few years ago.
And we're proud to boast more color photography in our pages than any other live steam mag in the country.

Sorry to go on . . . we're just proud of what we've done. You are always welcome to pick single issues that pique your interest.

All the Best,

Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:04:35 -0600
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps


Just to confirm the sentiments expressed below. . . as a 7.5" gauge modeler I find the GSQ to be well worth the money even thought I will most likely NEVER build any large scale equipment. A lot of the practices and article apply to the hobby in general as well as large scales. Don't be afraid of making one more subscription plunge . . . REMEMBER you CAN have too many subscriptions, but you can never have enough GOOD Magazines! The GSQ is an excellent resource!

Curtis Hustace

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:30:34 EST
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

Stan, I too would have to confer with both Greg and Curtis. I am a 7.5" gauger modelling in 3.75" scale (pretty grand for 7.5) and have enjoyed every article in GSQ.
It contains knowlege that can be applied to us as well as those who like the hernia scales also...

Jeff Badger
soquel Ca.

Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:32:36 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

Okay, no mas, I'll subscribe. Oh, I'm a 3.75" scaler as well.

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:15:28 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Re: Caboose Marker Lamps

Hello all,

thank you very much to all (especially Mike with his long description) for the information about the caboose-marker-lamps. This is a great list, which is full of info, when someone needs them.

It's now the second time, that I learned a lot about american railroading. And being so far away, this is great.

Greg, is it possible to get the issue separate?

Thank you

Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:09:51 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: New Videos (Commercial)

Hi Folks:

I know that many of you share several lists with me, and I apologise for the multiple posts.

I've just received a shipment of NTSC format videos from Graham Whistler.
There are two new videos in the bunch.

First is: "Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway Anniversary". It was shot during the R&ER's 125th. Anniversary celebrations in 2000. Included are most of the R&ER locos and several visiting locos from Romney, Bure Valley, and the ex-Fairbourne "Sian". There are some private runs, just for the video, including one with "Blackovesely" and another with James Waterfield's wonderful Heywood replicas "Shelagh" (disguised in one run as "Muriel") and Dining Carriage. $29.95 + $4.00 Priority Mail

The second is : "The best of Miniature Railways". This new video features 5", 7-1/4", 10-1/4" and 12-1/4" gauge miniature railways. Among the railways shown are: Fairbourne, Moors Valley, Stapleford Park and Great Cockrow. It's an interesting look at several styles of UK miniature lines. $29.95 + $4.00 Priority Mail.

I'm sorry to say, I've had to discontinue accepting credit cards directly, because of increased merchant charges by the credit card organizations. I can still accept them via PayPal at my web site.

Thanks for your time.


Mike Decker
Decker's Trains
Rt. 1, Box 102-E
Hot Springs, SD 57747

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:35:43 -0800
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Thanks, from GSQ

Thanks, fellas, for the kind words. We're glad that the hard work has resulted in a magazine that people are enjoying. Stan, I'm sure you'll enjoy your subscription . . . Welcome Aboard.

Hubert, yes single issues are available for $6 ea postage paid. The back issue will be up on the web site before the end of the month.

All the Best,

Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:56:35 -0800
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Short Line Cars?

Hi folks,

Does anybody out there in cyber land know a gentleman by the name of Ralph Rehnelt or his company of Short Line Cars out of Memphis TN? I ordered a caboose from him some time ago and now I don't seem to find 'any one home'! Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:44:57 EST
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Short Line Cars?

I know of him, and his reputation in the Live Steam Circles is not a very good one. He has taken orders from several out here on the West Coast and not a one have seen or heard from him since. Not very reliable! Your case of no caboose is one of many I am sure.
I would try the local Chamber of Commerce or BBB in his hometown and see if they have other complaints or have them look into it.

Best of Luck,
Jeff Badger

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:28:56 -0800
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Introducing Grant Alexander

Grant & Donna:

Had we left for New Zealand one day later, we would have seen your note and have been able to pay a visit, as we passed through Wellington on our way to South Island. We were in NZ for the 70th anniversary of the club in Hamilton, but took the opportunity to see more of your lovely country while we were there. Perhaps next time.

Quentin Breen

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:59:10 EST
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: email addresses

Hi There!
Here are the email addresses:

Schraders : cbsbuild1@aol.com
Julie: stanton91@hotmail.com
Billy Brady: azcats21@hotmail.com
Gail Boyd (homeschoolers) GBWindsong@cs.com

Let me know if you get this. Thanks

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:47:32 -0800
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Re: Short Line Cars?


Thanks for the information. I will follow your suggestions.


Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:48:31 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: email addresses

Thanks Mom,

I got them just fine!

Your new son,


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:18:17 -0800
From: John Haskey

Subject: The Avengers

Hi All,
Just watched an episode of 'The Avengers' from 1965. Title of the episode was 'The Grave Diggers'. It featured a nice live steam train somewhere in England. Tender was lettered 'SMR' and the locomotive bore the number 731 or 751 it was hard to make out. Looked to be a 4-6-2 or thereabouts... Anyone have any more information about where this was? Nicely detailed signal bridges, stations, etc. No mention in the TV show credits...


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:27:15 EST
From: plumdalejunction@aol.com

Subject: Re: The Avengers

Lord Gretton of Stapleford Park in Leicestershire, England operated a 10 1/4 inch gauge railway from 1958 in the grounds of his stately home which was opened occasionally to the public. According to A.B.C of Miniature Railways published by Ian Allan Limited in about 1961, one of the two locomotives was numbered 751 named "John of Gaunt" and was a 4-4-2 loosely based on a Canadian Pacific appearance and built by David Curwen. Perhaps this was the locomotive that you saw in "The Avengers". The other locomotive was also a 4-4-2 of a similar appearance by the same builder numbered 5748 and named "Blanche of Lancaster".

According to the above publication, the total length of track was around 2,000 feet. The railway terminated at the edge of a lake where I believe there was a miniature boat that carried passengers. Lord Gretton died some years ago and I believe that his railway was dismantled. However I recall reading somewhere that it has been rebuilt in part and operates from time to time. I do not know if the same two locomotives are in existence.

Brian Critchley

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:00:58 -0500
From: Glen Fairweather

Subject: The Avengers

The railway at Stapleford Park is still in operation. They have an extensive website which also includes further information on the Avengers episode:


The Miniature Railway Links & Photos Page
Links to railways around the world, equipment suppliers, book & video dealers, online resources and an extensive UK photo gallery.

Glen Fairweather

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:57:56 -0600
From: "Mudhen"

Subject: Re: The Avengers on DVD & other goodies

This Avengers episode is available on VHS & DVD. On DVD its part of the 1965 Box set, volume #1.

Also just released on DVD is the Buster Keaton classic "The Railrodder." Its one of the last films Buster Keaton made, Its a story about a Coast to Coast trip across Canadian by motorcar. Released in 1965 is got some great shots of 1st generation diesels and vintage passenger and freight equipment. It includes a documentry on the making of this film as well.

Also don't miss on DVD "The Train" with Burt Lancaster. The DVD includes Director John Frankenheimer's commentary, including how he staged that great wreck sequence. "Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid" is also out on DVD, which includes a "making of" feature with George Roy Hill's comments

Hopefully some day they'll issue A Ticket to Tomahawk, Night Passage, Denver & Rio Grande and Bite The Bullet on DVD as they all include some great narrow gauge footage.

Mark Petersen
Camp Creek Railroaders
Omaha, NE
(Film buff when I not messing with trains)

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:49:40 EST
From: cptboatman@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: The Avengers on DVD & other goodies

where can in get the train. seen it when i was, well a few years ago. great film

thanks RAY

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:00:32 -0600
From: "Mudhen"

Subject: Re: Re: The Avengers on DVD & other goodies

I tend to purchase most of my DVD's online from Buy.com. Good selection and better prices than Amazon.com

Mark Petersen
Camp Creek Railroaders
Omaha, NE

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:48:28 -0800
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: VIME Newsletter.

Hi all and especially Charlie Lear,
As some of you know I have been trying to get a system up and operating for the publication of the Vancouver Island Model Engineers newsletters for a while now.
I started one on Yahoo groups but that is not to everyone's liking. Out of the blue last evening an internet friend offered to host the site for me and I think everyone will be pleased. It can be reached by going to http://www.steammachine.com and selecting Vancouver Island etc.
Later today I will be deleting the Yahoo Groups service to free up room for others.
Again; Thank you Charlie.
Dennis Dalla-Vicenza
Happily trapped on Vancouver Island BC.

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:07:20 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Kapiti Miniature Railway Open Day

Last weekend Kapiti Miniature Railway in New Zealand hosted their annual open weekend. We had visiting loco's from all around the country and put on quite a show for the local population. I have uploaded some pictures to the 7-plus-ngm site under a folder called KMR 2001. I will include a link here to the site but have found in the past that these links don't always work the best.

A battery electric model of an "Ec" class loco of NZGR. This is built to 2" scale giving a prototype gauge of about 3'6" on 7¼".
A nice mogul, known locally as a Phantom design. This one is built by the designer and isfrom Auckland.
Your's truly driving a Lil Lima, this one was visiting from Havelock North. A very forgiving steam engine.
An interesting visiting 5" gauge 0-8-0 loco.
A nice Mogul from Palmerston North. This is built to the Phantom design.
Yours truly driving a 12HP petrol hydraulic GeeP. Visiting loco from Havelock North.
One of three 5" gauge models built to the popular "Speedy" design that attended our open weekend. This was a very powerfull loco easilly hauling two of our 7¼" gauge passenger cars, loaded!
Double headed "Phantom" design loco's.
Double headed again.
A great 2" scale 2-6-2 based on a NZGR prototype. Nice to drive.

Enjoy the photo's.

Grant Alexander
Squirrel Valley Railway.

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:10:53 -0600
From: "Rick White"

Subject: Re: VIME Newsletter.

I am sure glad you got to post on this new site. After joining the Yahoo group you made, I could not download the file. These downloaded great from the new web site. Good newsletter and the color makes them all the more special.
Rick White

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:14:14 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Something new at www.7-plus-ngm.org

Hi all,

it's a little bit quiet, so let me wake up all of you:

Today, I worked hard and finished the archive-files of our mails. Now, all mails are available online under www.7-plus-ngm.org/archives.htm .

And I included as long as possible the files, which are stored at yahoo-groups, so that they will remain.

And than, I've added a search-engine on our archives-page. You can search the complete archive by every word, but you have to type it in in the correct way.

Sample: If you type in "Wood", you will get the pages, which contain "Wood", but no pages with "wood".

Hope, you can use this archive as well the search-engine.

Your moderator

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:46:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave

Subject: (unknown)

Hi everyone,
I am looking for any prototype data, plans, and pictures of D&RGW #50. If any one has any please contact me off list.

Thank you