7+-NGM-logo The

7-Plus-NGM Digest February 2004

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:50:25 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Florida Bound in "05

bill, tom keenan was over here too about a week or so ago. i think he is interested in some of your stuff. Ken is having a new engine built in UK in the Hunslet style; should be done soon.

here chief mean i'm the only one doing the work. just kidding, ther is another friend helping. he's 77 and out works me.
fred v

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:50:13 -0800
From: "Rudolph P. van Wingen"

Subject: Narrow Gauge Meet Invitation...

Members are invited to the Second Annual Narrow Gauge Meet at the Joshua Tree & Southern Rail Road Museum in Joshua Tree, CA. The meet will be held the second weekend in March from the 13th through the 14th. We already have guests and equipment coming from the East Coast and Texas, and included in the meet will be a Dinner in the Diner in our D&RGW standard gauge diner "Castle Peak".

The Museum includes "G" gauge, 7-1/2" gauge, and 15" gauge layouts with live steam, a campground with full hookups to tent sites, and spectacular high desert scenery. Visit the website for photographs and more information.

We hope to see and meet some of you there.
Rudy van Wingen
JT&S RR Vice President
dmmcomo@sprintmail.com See our 3' scale narrow gauge (2-1/2" scale 7-1/2" gauge) and (5" scale 15' gauge) layouts at http://www.jtsrr.org and http://home.earthlink.net/~wsflco/jts_gsd.htm

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:32:52 -0800
From: Ken Burns

Subject: Re: Narrow Gauge Meet Invitation...

Hey....What do you think Kim and I will need to bring to the dinner to "share"? I will probably bring a couple of steaks to burn on the barbie. Also, are you able to confirm that Paul will share accomodations with me at the meet? I do plan on bringing suitable adult beverage!

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:56:04 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Narrow Gauge Meet Invitation...

As usual, I can only be there in spirit. Adult spirit. Got a call yesterday, two calls as a matter of fact, that I'm expected to conjure up a reception for my day school's IHS (Interim Head of School){ not Headmaster - person is of the female persuasion} As I do not belong to any fancy golf or yacht club, and my only club being a place where old guys play with little trains without benefit of a pub but with a modicum of dirty coal smoke, I'm a tad lost as to what to do. Especially since no alumni listings have been forwarded.

I expect to wear your derby and JT&S badge to the Largo run days this weekend. I do not expect to be lynched.

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:03:25 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"
Subject: Re: Narrow Gauge Meet Invitation...

If you live in an area where the weather is suitable for outdoor receptions at the date in question, why not at your local club track, with the governing group's permission of course.
The Los Angeles Live Steamers Railroad Museum has a policy that allows members to request permission to host a group party at the club faciity from our Board of Directors, which needs to be done at least a month in advance.
our weather is usually warm and clear most of the year so it works out well and most groups enjoy the difference from a restraunt or banquet hall.
I hope this helps.
Best Regards,
William J. Stewart.

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:27:27 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Westinghouse Air Pump ID Plates

With the number of good looking 2-1/2" scale WAB pumps being produced and mounted on locomotives these days, it has come to my attention that there is a need for nice lookning etched data plates like those that were mounted to the prototype pumps.

Does anyone have access to or can suggest where I could find photos of such plates for reproduction in 2-1/2" scale. Of interest would be plates for 9", 11-1/2" and compound pumps...

Rudy van WIngen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:32:50 -0500
From: Grice Dale-MGI1833

Subject: RE: Westinghouse Air Pump ID Plates

Hi Rudy,

I'll look around the Museum tomorrow and see if any of ours have plates.

Dale Grice
Operations Manager
Southeastern Railway Museum
Duluth, GA

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:16:23 +1100
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Westinghouse Air Pump ID Plates

The fellow who makes the decals and plates from Conn makes the WABCO plates- Dustin.

Geo A Paxon

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:14:39 EST
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: Westinghouse Air Pump ID Plates

Robert Dustin
Locomotive Plates
and railway decals 3/4" to 2-1/2" Scale
PO Box 77, Thompson, CT 06277
Phone/Fax: 860-923-0174

Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:20:20 -0800
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: "The railway at the bottom of the world"

A very interesting report on a January 2004 visit to the very successful Narrow Gage "Ferrocarril Austral Fueguino" or "Estación del Fin del Mundo" with it's modern steam loco's using LD Porta principles near the southern tip of South America.

This one is certainly high on my list for a future visit.


The actual web site for the railway can be found here



Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:51:03 -0800
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: NMRA Convention "Domes to the Pacific Northwest


Thought this might be of interest to those thinking of traveling to Seattle for the NMRA convention in July.



Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:21:03 -0500
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: NMRA Convention "Domes to the Pacific Northwest"

They also have a 2-3 live steam layouts on tour.

Dale & Leila Martin: Dale Martin's Garden Railway, 4 3/4' Gauge Tom Murray's 7 1/2" Gauge layout and the Kitsap Live Steamers.

More info can be found at:


Any new video clips Trevor?


Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:51:43 EST
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Westinghouse Air Pump ID Plates

I don't know as much as he has a website.....I don't think he does....
Just call him and he'll send you a catalog....

I have several nameplates as well as other pims he's made for the local clubs in the Northeast.
If you have a picture to go by I know he can reproduce it.

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:06:29 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Re: NMRA Convention "Domes to the Pacific Northwest"

Tom Murray's Railway, now that is interesting. It is in his "back yard" south of Tacoma, Washington. Never seen it myself and I'd guess few others have either.

Most of the loco's were built by Dave Skagen of Shelton, Washington and would be of interest to this group as all are large scale.

I shall have to see if I can sneek in on that one.

Yes I've brought back some video clips. One is of two 5" gauge 0-6-2 "sugar cane" tank loco's running bunker first uphill with a load of coal wagons. Clip was taken at Bob Farquar's "Northeast and Pacific "Tramway" (Tramway is Oz for Narrow Gauge") near Coff's Harbour in NSW.

Bob's railway is pretty spectacular and by far the most difficult i've ever driven on. 3% ruling grade, tight curves, trestles, loops, tunnels, the lot. You have to be "spot on" firing to keep a head of steam (coal fired) and also "spot on" with the water level to keep the crown covered without priming.

Oh did I mention the scale "Bats" in the tunnel too. Literally hundreds of moths live in there during the day. I go charging through at full throttle and scare them all up. Boy oh boy, talk about a scene from a horror movie..

I'll add a couple of photo's to the file here and get a couple of clips to you soonest.

Back to work tomorrow.....


Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:24:40 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Northeast and Pacific Coast Tramway

8 photo's posted in a new folder


Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:41:41 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: SAR NG16

I've also posted three photo's of the 7.25" gauge SAR NG16 built by Harold Sinclair for Ian Welsh in New Zealand.

Harold has built, I believe, 27 loco's over the past 30 years, all large scale. This is his last, for he is now very frail.

His work and that of Dave Giles has transformed the live steam scene in New Zealand.


Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:20:34 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: Westinghouse Air Pump ID Plates

Chris -

Turns out Robert Dustin does have a 2-1/2" scale WAB air pump plate in his catalog #10, so I am not going to reinvent the wheel and go into competition with him. I hope he does or will do it in brass as his usual aluminum is not really appropriate...

Rudy van Wngen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:19:05 -0700
From: "David Johnson"

Subject: Spark Arrestor

Hello everyone,

With the spring running season coming, I have decided to offer a spark arrestor kit for coal or wood burning locomotives. A couple of weeks ago we had a small fire out at the club from a fire breathing steam locomotive. No damage done, but encouraged me to get a spark arrestor done. I am offering them in kit form on my web site. I will be offering completely assembled units in the near future. They are required at Train Mountain. Check it out at my web site at www.ColoradoGandyDancer.com

Dave Johnson

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:13:30 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: Spark Arrestor

Dave Johnson -

In addition to a spark arrestor, anyone burning solid fuel also needs a good tight ashpan. Don't know how you would offer a kit for that, though!

Also, oil burners need spark arrestors too. Carbon build up on flues can flake off and light off and when ejected from the stack is just as bad as a live solid fuel cinder.

I have observed some liquid fuel locomotives dropping gobbets of burning oil on the track from improperly sealed ash pans, too.

Those of us that operate in high fire danger areas such as TM or the JT&S RR Museum have to be super careful.

Rudy van WIngen
Vice President

Subject: Re: Spark Arrestor

in the UK most of the steamers have converted to oil after a thatched roof burned on a cottage next to the tracks. i saw it on a recent trip over there; sad sight.
fred v

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:07:49 -0800
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: Steam and Steel New Zealand

Photo's of our visit to New Zealand and New South Wales, Australia can be found here.


Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:31:55 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Re: Spark Arrestor

Sounds like a case for Propane!


Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:34:35 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Re: Spark Arrestor

Is this really the case?

How many loco's did you actually see oil fired?



Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:20:05 -0000
From: "Surrey Light Railway"

Subject: Re: Re: Spark Arrestor

Oil firing is the exception rather than the rule in the UK!! Certainly on model engineering tracks anyway. The Festiniog Railway and Vale of Rheidol (both two foot gauge) are oil fired due to adjacent Forestry Commission land.


Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:05:05 -0500
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Florida this weekend?

Anything going on in Florida this Sunday that I could drop into? Got the whole day open and nothing to do.


Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:12:53 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Florida this weekend?

Where inFlorida will you be. Reasonably big state.

If authentic Live Steam member, you probably will not be run off from the Largo Central Railroad in Largo Central Park,

Cam Brown
a wintertime member of LCRR

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:23:35 -0500
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: Florida this weekend?

I will be in Titusville, but have a car and can travel. Up to 3 hours would not be too far.


Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:12:59 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Florida this weekend?

To Pat in Titusville:

You are east coast FL. Largo other coast. I don't know if anyone would be at track on Sunday and couldn't check as we are on phone line to internet. when I get off I'll phone 'em. so e-mail me at Jubilatede@aol.com.

Cam Brown

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:18:34 -0000
From: "mosquitojunction"

Subject: Re: Florida this weekend?

I am a member of the Largo Central, and the FLS, and the Mosquito Junction(president) and the LALS in Cal.
There is nothing going on this week end at largo.
The Winter meet that Largo has been holding for a few years, has gone back to the Ridge club at thier new track in Dundee Fl.
Largo will have it's meet at the end of March.
All the Winter meet travelers will be gone by then.
Largo and it's politics, said they will not be part of the FLS or hold a part in the winter meet tour.
I am now contiplating staying a member of Largo.
Our club, the Mosquito Junction, Will be part of the Winter meet tour in 2005.
Hope to see all then.


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:14:26 +0200
From: "Richard Feather"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 938

Yes nice idea, but IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN, the goody two shoes and all the others who know better than all of us (for that read nothing, as they dont live in the real world) have gone so far that there is no real chance now of changing anything back, you would be regarded as racist, bigot ETC so nice idea, but no good putting it on a list dedicated to garden/park railways, put it in your local paper, or stand for local council. As for the second message, no problemo.
Written by an Englishman living in Bulgaria, because I had enough of the do gooders in England,

Richard Feather.

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:44:57 -0000
From: "pmcnyid"

Subject: Galvanized or stainless switch points

Because my home is near the sea I am considering galvanized or stainless switch points. I would appreciate any thoughts or experiences anyone may have had in using either of these. I'm considering three options.

1. I understand that 1" stainless angle works well. Carl Baskin carefully documents using 1" stainless angle switch points at Illinois Live Steamers. His excellent turnout construction site is at http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/magazine/29.html, and his instructions are supplemented with many photos.
2. A second option is stainless points that are water cut out of 1" thick stainless sheets. But quotes for this (with milling) are coming in at about $200 per pair of points.
3. The third option I know of is galvanizing C-channel points after they are milled. Fortunately, the galvanizing is only about $10 extra per pair, though the galvanizing will wear off the head and require occasional touch ups.
Does anyone have experience with these three methods? Are there other options that would work in a harsh salt environment? Is there a method or grade of galvanizing I should use? Does anyone know of a source for stainless C-channel?


Pat McNally

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:49:16 EST
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: Galvanized or stainless switch points

If you would like I can machine them from 1/2'' x 1'' bar as I do my rail but in stainless.

Vance Nickerson

Nickerson Welding & Repair
119 York Dr. Madisonville TX. 77864
Full service repair and construction of large scale locomotives and rolling stock.
Shop # 936-348-9444
Home # 936-348-2504

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:20:46 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"

Subject: Re: Galvanized or stainless switch points

Just guessing but I would think a specialty steel rollin mill may be able to tell you where it would be available.
It would be of use in marine environments (ship construction and modification) or Nucelar Reactor construction as a minimum.
Best Regards,
William J. Stewart.

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:40:40 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: RE: Galvanized or stainless switch points

Even in a corrosive environment, I don't understand why go to all the trouble, the usual build methods with a coat of paint will likely outlast the builder.
But McMaster-Carr carries stainless steel rectangular tubing that could be ripped in half to create channels.
For those of you looking for an inexpensive and effective way to throw your switches, take a look at locking horozontal toggle clamps. They can be had for as little as $12.00.

Roy Stevens

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:17:12 -0800
From: "Matt"

Subject: Galvanized or stainless switch points

Hardware stores carry cold galvanizing spray by Rust-Oleum and it works exceptionally well at preventing rust. I use it all the time on steel welding projects that will be outside in our coastal comunity with great success.


Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:29:55 +1100
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: "Just suppose" is totallt inappropriate

What is the experience of group members with the "new" Coles? Is anyone getting any service?

Geo A Paxon

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:19:19 -0500
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: Galvanized or stainless switch points

There is another, relatively new, product out there that folks might like to try for this. Petit 'Rustlok' primer. It is a moisture-cure Urethane base with aluminum flakes mixed in. Intended for marine and industrial use it sticks like nothing I have ever seen and dries in a few hours. About $30 a quart in Canada but it goes a long way. The only caution is that once you open the can use it all or it will set up completely over a day or two. I usually decant it into small jars to prevent this.

It is absolutely the best rust paint ever.

Oh - and don't get it on your fingers or clothes! You will get it off clothes and although you can wash the aluminum part off skin with a solvent, the urethane part stays until it wears off. Trust me I know!


Michael's Locomotive Pages

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:39:38 -0700
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: Re: Galvanized or stainless switch points

You may want to consider just mounting anodes near the switch.

If you bond a more reactave metal in contact with the ground near the metal to be saved, the anode will creat a - potential at the steel part.

Anodes have been used for years to protect steel pipe lines.

Just look at your water heater tank, they all come with anode rods to protect the steel tank. You can make your water heater tank last forever if you change the anode before it is gone. I can't think of a worse envirnment than hot water with any amount of salt.


Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:14:44 -0800
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: Garratt update

Latest photo's of Richard Stuart's 7.25" Gage "Ride in" Garratt utilizing L.D. Porta Technology can be found here.


Richard expects to steam the loco in the next 30 days


Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:01:50 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Galvanized or stainless switch points

Overdue Two Cents Worth: Betraying my pet prejudice about galvanized steel built up over the years (learned the plumbing biz back in the '30's from my dad and then as engineer for NYS on Long Island projects) there is galvanized (hot dipped) and galvanized (electroplated). Hot dipped yeah, electroplated - boo. Suffered through many pipe support racks in the salty air next to the sound and ocean when one could almost see the rust grow on the electroplated channel. Usually started where the stock had been sheared or cut and nothing dabbed on the exposed base metal.

Cam Brown

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:27:31 -0700
From: "Lewis, Woody"

Subject: RE: Garratt update


Will this engine be built to IBLS track and wheel standards?

Woody Lewis
Colorado Springs, CO

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:30:13 -0800
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: RE: Garratt update

"Will this engine be built to IBLS track and wheel standards?"

I would expect so, The loco is located in Perth, Western Australia where Richard is the President of the local Live Steam club. So these and boiler standards have to be met.

Why do you ask? Can you see something in the photo's that would make you think it was not?

Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:26:18 -0800
From: Trevor Heath
Subject: Inspiration from Nagpur, India

I thought I'd share this web site with you.

It shows the model engineering work of a Guy named Iqbal Ahmed from Nagpur, India.

This is the first contact I've had with anyone from India involving Live Steam.

The workmanship is amazing, then I saw the photo's of his equipment....