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7-Plus-NGM Digest April 2001

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 04:47:38 EDT
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

George:

Would you consider selling a pair of your Arch Bars? How about a picture for the web?

D.Liggett

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:00:03 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks - Dgligg

COMMENT:
I second the motion about the picture. Who, and where is "George" ? And where are you ?
Howard Springer in Wash State.

Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:29:47 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks - Dgligg

Howard and a couple of others,
I will not be able to get the pictures of my friends press for a while.
When it is convenient I will photograph and post. Howard, Dennis at Kitsap has the details of the problem.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:15:04 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

George,

Are castings available for sale?

Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:46:23 +0200
From: Hannes Paling

Subject: Re: Re: A question of practical track standards

Greetings

I am still relatively new to this surfing business, I'm not sure how to do it right now , but I got a digital camera recently. I will put it in the sun and take a few pic's and send them to you

Regards

Hannes Paling

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:58:35 +0200
From: Hannes Paling

Subject: Re: Air brake system

Greetings

I will post you a few pic's and some description soon

Regards

Hannes Paling

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:59:46 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Re: A question of practical track standards

Me to please

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 19:54:36 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: soldering end railings on 1/8 "scale Caboose

I am ready to begin soldering in order to make all the handrails needed for construction of my Caboose. After I draw the pattern for bending the hardware required; is soldering the best way to go? Help! I am using clothes hangers for wire, should I be brazing it instead?

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:28:20 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Re: A question of practical track standards

Good, between us, and if necessary additional help, we should get the pictures into the files section.

Cheers,
Arno

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:19:42 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

We would be happy to sell our archbars which are dirt cheap, but they are a few castins only. I assume you would be comfortable drilling and boring the journal boxes and drilling the holes for the bolts that tie the archbars to the boxes. You will also need to cut, bend and drill the arch bars as well as build up the bolster from RHS. We use springs from Century which are an Americal mob, but are readily available down under. We make both the 3'&" outside hung brake ones as well as the 4"8" inside hung brake ones( from the short reefer). .

Let us know as we are happy to share our wares with others. Since our dollar is about worth about 50 cents of a green back, it is particularly attractive. We are not trying to make any money, and will sell at our cost plus the shipping. We are just modeller down here and not dealers,so out motivations are only to encourage the spread of the live steam hobby, particularly 2-1/2" as that is what we model.

We are currently working on casting the D&RGW Bettendorf type trucks that were under the D&RGW 6500 class flat. They are 4'11" wheel base. A few us decided to build the flats, so we needed the trucks. Patterns are about done. They will have all the lettering on the the face and the works. Will be one piece aluminium castings for the sideframes and another for the bolster. Sideframes, again, are deisgned for the 17mm ID and 35 mm OD standard sealed roller bearing. Spring plank will be machined from flat bar.

Geo down under.

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:22:11 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks - Dgligg

Geore is a Yank who went to Australia about 17 years ago for a year and a half contract job. George is still in Australia. I was a On3 modeller for thirty years abnd have gravitated to 7-1/4" gauge, 2-1/2" scale.

Cheers,

Geo from down under.

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:27:58 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

We can supply the castings and would be happy to do so at our costs. Not trying to make a buck, just assist the hobby. Would be good if we could do you a decent set of drawings for making all the other bits. We are a bit informal down here and work off sketches and word of mouth. The drawings would be particularly good for you guys that are a bit far from our information chain as you can't readily turn up at our workshop door on a Sunday morning with your questions.

Cheers,

George from down under

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:12:35 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

George,

I really would like to purchase some of your arch bar truck castings. Can you provide information on cost, shipping, particulars on ordering (ie. do you accept a check or money order in US$).

I am interested in enough castings to build 12 trucks.

Thanks,

Bill Laird
1155 Lakefield Drive
Canyon Lake, TX 78133
Bill.Laird@usa.net

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:57:09 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Hi,

I would be interested in the trucks also. Do you have photos and a price yet?

Thanks,

Ron Koehler

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:47:05 EDT
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Dear Sir:

What would the price be for Arch Bar casting? Would this include a blueprint?
I live near Chattanooga Tennessee. Freight cost would need to be figured also.

Doug(Boomer)Liggett

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:31:14 -0400
From: Tansj@sloan.wnyric.org

Subject: Re: soldering end railings on 1/8 "scale Caboose

first off seeing as all railing on a car will take a lot of abuse when sitting and under way,I would make them out of a good grade welding rod say 1/8 steel,then either silver solder or braze them together Soft lead base soders will not stand the abuse of loading and unloading cars.

Joe

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:03:19 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: RE: Automatic Brakes

Hello all,

Don Dickens posted a long article as well as two drawings in the files section, but a lot of you were not able to view them.

So, I requested them from Don, and gladly, he send the to me.

I added the text as well the files to the archive-file of march.

Hubert
Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:04:34 -0400
From: "Dale Russell"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Forgive me, but what is RHS stand for?

BTW my name is Dale, and I just became an engineer at Kings Island. I love steam engines

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:50:28 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Subject: WATO in US?

Joe's post RE:Maxitrak has got me thinking. I'll have to call Live Steam and see if I can get the issues. Does anyone represent Wato in the US? Do they have a website? Does anyone know if there is a pic of a 'Lil Lima anywhere online? How about a real Lima 2-4-0? I like the 2-4-0 configuration and the 4 wheel tender, not to mention the 2 1/4 x 3 1/2 cylinders...

Thanks, MIKE

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 11:54:59 -0000
From: "Joseph Betsko, Esq."

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Mike,

I understand that Roll Models owns the plans to WATO's 2.5 inch and 3.75 inch scale steamers. The 2.5 inch equipment including the Lil Lima and Lil Mogul are supposed to be introduced. As I imagine the prototypes were larger, the RMI 2.5 inch scale steamers should be a bit larger than Maxitrak's Lil Jo. But since the Lil Jo kit comes completely machined at a more competitive price, I am ordering the Lil Jo in stages as my first 7.25 inch gauge steamer. Eventually, I will figure out using a lathe, etc.

Cheers,
Joe Betsko
Pennsylvania USA

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:03:25 -0000
From: "Joseph Betsko"

Subject: Rail Questions

Hi,

I have some basic questions on rail.

For 2.5 inch scale:

what should be the appropriate rail height or code (I'm guessing 5/8 of an inch)

and

are there any suppliers of this rail on the East Coast.

Thanks in advance,
Joe Betsko

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:23:18 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Rail Questions

Joe,
5/8" high rail would be a bit light for 2 1/2" scale models, especially larger ones like moguls. I know there are /were suppliers of 5/8" rail (Little Engines used to carry it) but 1" high rail is more readily available and more to size for a 2 1/2" scale model. I am a supplier of 1" high aluminum rail and I am about to get an order of it started with my extruder. I am in Northeast Pennsylvania. Anybody else interested in rail?

Bruce Mowbray (president)
TMB Manufacturing And Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:47:23 EDT
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

The first Watco steam locomotive was delivered to Texas 8 years ago. The locomotive is now stored in Katy Texas.

David Hannah, III

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:56:27 -0700
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Re: Digest Number 271

Mike,

Yes, as a matter of fact the do. Paul Garin of RMI (Roll Models Inc.) is the owner of all Keith's 7 1/2" and 7 1/4" gauge line of engines and products. Keith is now concentrating on his 15" gauge and 24" gauge efforts.

Both of these gentlemen are tops in my book. In addition to the steam line, Paul (drawing from his engineering experience in the wheelchair industry) has developed a truly outstanding line of electric driven "diesels" and very comfortable taller-than-scale trolleys. They run like a dream. [Yes, Paul does advertise with us, but I say this because I truly admire his products and like and respect Paul as person.]

Roll Models Inc.
5030 E. Jensen Ave.
Fresno, CA 93725
Phone: 559-441-8686
FAX: 559-441-0359

Wato Engineering
11 Sandra Way, Rossmoyne, Western Australia 6148
+61 8 9354 2549
Fax: +61 8 9354 2555
(Attn: Wato Engineering)

I hope this helps.

All the Best,
Greg
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
530-527-0141 fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:32:04 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Mike,
Roll models out of CA is producing Wato Material (I believe they bought the North America rights) Go to the IBLS site run my Dan Morris and look around. There was one or two at Kitsap and a couple of other tracks.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:48:18 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Corrected web site is:

http://members.iinet.au/~gabrep/wato

Jim Hoback
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:31:17 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Joe, as I understand it from RMI, there are no plans as yet to market the 2.5" scale Wato designs. The Maxitrak Little Joe is just that Little! Only 15" wide compared to a standard width in 2.5" scale of 20" I saw for the first time a MaxiTrak Arthur which is supposedly similar to the Lil Joe. It looks more like a 1.5" scale loco to me, and its weight is only 250# I have a Meg Steam Wendy that is 20" wide by 40" long and 39" tall and weighs in at 620# I am sure that the Lil Joe will make a great starter locomotive for you. Just not sure about the claim of 2.5" scale though...

Jeff Badger

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:13:23 +0000

From: jsb.pennsy@worldnet.att.net

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Hi,

I talked to Paul of RMI last week about steam. He was very helpful on the phone. Actually, I like the Wato Lil Suzie model. But anyway, the Lil Jo will be a great start for me. I think I can believe the 2.5" claim. I have seen the Hawaii plantation engine Olomana (sp?) on loan from the Smithsonian at the RR Museum of PA and it is very small.

Do you know the website for Meg Steam?

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:16:02 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Rail Questions

Train Mountain has both aluminum and steel 1" rail. See the Company store catalog at www.trainmountain.org

Quentin

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:33:08 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Track Clearances

Folks,

Having a narrow gauge loco, freelance 3 3/4" scale, and running around on various 7.5" gauge tracks that normally have smaller 1.5" scale folks... I am finding that there did not seem to be much concern on 'track clearances' when the tracks were installed.

To expand on this, have found that "if you can lean you head" then that tree leaning over the track is not a problem. Or recently, a bridge frame was put in that tapers over the track, near head room area.

Now the leaning your head idea might be ok for a guy in 1.5" scale, where his 'head' is the tallest thing going by, it does not work for a narrow gauge loco cab, that won't "lean". Especially a diesel.

My loco is 23inches wide and 46 inches tall. The pilot beam is 23 inches wide, at 1 inch above the rails. And the cab is 23 inches wide with the over hang, at 46 inches up in the air.

I am finding most seem to have an "egg shaped" clearance rule...
where the clearance gets wider as you get higher above the rails. It is wider for the butt and arms, but starts to taper in at head level.
An egg shape.

On my indoor Gn3 model railroad, I use the 8" x 10" rule. For G, if I slide an 8in wide by 10in tall board down the middle of the track, I should clear all switch stands, ground clutter and such, at rail height, a full 8 inches wide. And at 10 inches tall, I should clear trees, buildings, tunnel portals and such, 8 inches wide still, but even at 10 inches above the rails. A "rectangle shape".

My proposed clearanced for my small railroad around the house will be, 34 inches wide by 60 inches tall... a rectangle sheet of plywood, should be able to slide down the track and not hit switch stands, water faucets, leaning trees or tunnel portals.

I was wondering if anyone else has established such standards?
And if so, what "shape" and numbers you have gone with?

Frolin Marek
Marek Mountain Railroad
San Antonio, Texas

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:50:00 -0400
From: Robert Herronen

Subject: Re: Track Clearances

Frolin brings up a good question. How much clearance should be allowed right at the tops of the rails themselves? Having tinkered in the smaller gauges (G, O, S, HO and mostly HOn3) I am used to using the NMRA track clearance gauges. These are tapered at the bottom which makes sense as the widest parts of the equipment usually is much higher up, being the car body or locomotive cab. However, my concern is that the cylinders of the larger locomotives will have enough clearance where I am building my tracks in the bottom of a cut which I cut down in the hill using a tractor scoop pan that is about 30 inches wide. It is a bit wider that the 30 inches as it IS tapered but I need to stablize these walls and want to make sure that any walls built will not become targets for locomotive cylinders or other parts. I figure the minimum width to accomidate a narrow Gauge D&RGW K-class locomotive in 2.5" scale is 36 inches, which the cut is, but higher up than the tops of the rails.

What is the best guess for a minimum out-to-out clearance at the tops of the rail and up? Egg-shape sounds good to me but HOW big of an egg?

Any help is, of course, very appriciated.

Robert Herronen
Superintendent of the Rio Grande Southern R.R. of N.C.

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:02:13 -0700
From: "Ken Burns"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

I also would be interested in your castings, I am planning on 4 sets of trucks to finish my project. I will await your reply at 7-plus-NGM.
Ken Burns
Salinas, CA

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 03:21:50 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Subject: 2 good 2 me

Thanks! You guys are great. Thank all of you for your replies. I have RMI's literature and I noticed a few of the WATO models missing. I will try them for these designs as well. I visit the WATO site often and it doesn't get updated too frequently. I do like "big" models but, I will be radius challenged if I want to keep the railway in my yard. I've been looking mostly at short locos with tenders. I like the look of the 2-4-0's lead truck and "cow catcher"...I dunno just aesthetics I guess. I'm just in the "info gathering" mode now but, I do have a machine shop at my disposal, it shouldn't be too bad if the fire gets lit. ( Visit www.accuratepower.com and see some of my vocations/avocations )

Thanks again, MIKE

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:42:04 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Reply to Joe:
I heard somewhere that Meg Steam is a fallen flag. Seems Dougal? found another job that probably put more groceries on the table. Too bad - I wass much taken with the Wendy.
Howard Springer

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:36:37 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

The 2.5" Wato castings are still available from Keith Watson in Australia. I believe that someone who is on this list recently got some castings for the Lil' Suzie. But I will let him tell you that if he chooses to.

Jeff Badger

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:38:47 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Yes, Dougal is working for a real railroad now last I heard. Sometimes a guy has to eat ya know...
I sure am fond of my Wendy lately...

Jeff Badger

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:43:42 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Howard,
Not quite yet to half flag, rumour has it the elder statesman of the family may be resurrecting the business when he soon retires from his present job.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:10:13 -0400
From: Paul GoodJohn

Subject: Re: Rail Questions

Hi Bruce,

I'm interested in the rail - what are the base and web dimensions, and how much did you want for it?

Paul.

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 07:02:30 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Rail Sample Scan was Rail Questions

Paul,
I am awaiting to see how much interest there will be before I can come up with an exact price for the rail. Currently it is around 80 cents per foot plus delivery (which can be saved if you want to pick it up in north east PA or we could meet somewhere conveniant for both of us... like a live steam meet). The rail I have is of the "western" profile. 1/2" head, 15/16" wide foot and 1" high with a 1/8" web. 6061-T6 material. I uploaded a scan of the rail profile and joiner for your viewing pleasure.

Any questions? Feel free to e-mail me off list.

Bruce Mowbray (president)
TMB Manufacturing And Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:22:37 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Re: Rail Sample Scan was Rail Questions

Reply to Bruce Mowbray
Bruce, being on the West Coast, I'm not a likely customer, but I have a question: What is the angle that the top of the base makes with the bottom? If you own a die, as I assume you do, you must have had some input when it was made. I keep measuring, but each time I obtain a slightly different angle. I seems to be arouns 14 degrees.

Howard Springer

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:54:12 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Rail Foot Angle was Rail Sample Scan

Howard,
That's a trade secret!! If I give that angle away, I just might as well give the rail away too!! Sheesh...everybody wants somthing for nothing these days!!

P.S. The angle is 15 degrees.

Bruce Mowbray (president)
TMB Manufacturing And Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:22:49 +1200
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Hi Mike,

I know this is a little late, but, there is a pic in 7+NGM of a Lil Lima here in NZ, I'll attach a direct link to it.

Grant

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:39:56 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Dear Mike:
I have a Lil Lima running on air. I bought the castings from WATCO in Aus. Let me know if you need any more info.

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers
Hayward, CA

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:46:19 +0100
From: "Min Rail"

Subject: 5/8th's High Rail

Alloy 16mm (5/8th's) high rail is available in the UK from Cromar White. Also supply 27mm high rail in steel and alloy.

www.cromarwhite.com

Adrian Sant

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:09:36 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Subject: Re: Maxitrak

Joe,
I just called Live Steam to get the back issues and subscribe. They didn't seem to know which issues I need. Could you tell me the months/issues that feature the 'Lil Lima so I can order the correct ones. Thanks for your help. MIKE

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:34:04 +0000
From: jsb.pennsy@worldnet.att.net

Subject: Building Tasha - Lil Lima

Mike,

There are pics of it in the Jan/Feb and Mar/Apr 2001 issues of Live Steam. Also, there is an article called Building Tasha (Lil Lima) in the Apr 1999 issue of Modeltec. Just yesterday, I received an email from RMI that it would be a while before the 2.5 inch scale steamers are released. There are also pics of it in the files section of this yahoo group.

Cheers,
Joe Betsko

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:40:44 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re: Track Clearances

Robert,

There is clear problem with an "egg shaped" clearance pattern, verses a "rectangle" shape. You do not get 'full width clearance' at the top and bottom, with the egg shape.

At rail height, you only get about 60% of the width, as the base of an egg is narrower. Using a 36 inch yard stick for an example (per your tractor's bucket width), you do not get the full 36 inches at rail height. You have to hold it about 6-10 inches above the rails, to have full width.

Then at the top, say you want a 60 inch height clearance, you could not move the 36 inch yard stick along the track at 60 inches in the air, with the egg shape. The top of the egg is tapered in, much narrower than in the middle.

So the problem with the egg shaped clearance idea is clear. You may have 18-22 inches clearance at top of rail, and maybe 16-18 at the top of your head. Although your arms have 36 inches.

Using a rectangle rule, or simply same you cut out a sheet of plywood, 36in wide and 60in tall... now slide that down the center of the tracks. You get full clearance at the top of the rails, for feet, cylinders, running boards, etc. And you get full clearance for your cab, marker lights, etc., and room to move your head left and right some, at the top near 60 inches high.

Now the next question is, what numbers are good? Keeping in mind, the idea of a good clearance is both in the straights and in the curves! And also on switches. Last weekend I scraped a low-level switch stand in a yard, as I come from the yard track on to the ladder track. The pilot on any loco will 'stick out' in a curve, or going around/thru a switch.

So the clearance numbers need to be for curves as well (unless you want a double standard, straights and curves). Long coaches and cars will swing-wide, over-hanging in a curve.

Frolin Marek Mountain Mining

The test frame now has a temporary wood body, for size and depth. Here it is on March 31st, 2001. If you wonder about clearances, the pilot plow can help remove items to close to the track!

The loco might better be considered a 5" scale model of an 18 inch gauge quarry loco, as it is so big (to be able to ride inside). The cab is 24in wide at the overhang and 48 inches to the top of the roof.

To get 'inside', the entire side wall is the "door", attached via magnets. The roof lifts off. I can stand on the pilot and the engine will not tip. Batterys in the 'tank'.

Here we have me inside the loco, holding on the siding while a 1.5" scale (little scale) engine goes by. Under the hood is 4 speakers, an 80watt Eq/Amp, and a diesel sound unit.

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:18:37 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

New computer as the"old" on flamed out a week ago.

Good spot here to unburden my mind about a clearance problem that may be overlooked, especially to those newbiews.

Since we are all deciples of the rightful ascendance of narrow gauge, don't forget that, in any scale we must accomodate the larger, especially wider, cabs, pilots,foot pegs and other sticky out things. Remeinde of this yesterday when cataloging somepictures of one of Larry Smith's wonderful steam meets on the Manatee Central Lines. Parrish. FL. All gauges and even a pond now for those who insist on putting steam engines in model boats.

Get to the point Cameron! The group has a large (portable, so it can be erected in the shade) LGB with passing siding(s - at least one that proved the point) There are many now living on the same lunitic fringe as I enchanted with two foot gauge who are "doing" Maine and logging prototype. Guess what? Sideswiping on the can't pass anymore sidings. Obvious but we must all err on the side of generous clearances whether we are doing #1 or 12"/1'.

Good to be back.

Cam Brown , TFF

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:23:10 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Little engines

I've been too busy to respond to some of the individual emails but here's some general stuff:

If I'm looking for a "proof of prototype" or at least something close I refer to "Recent Locomotives (1886) Enlarged Edition". It has text describing many locomotives along with hundreds of illustrations and drawings. I looked for a 3' engine that fits the 6' width quoted for the little WATO engine. I didn't find anything that matched it exactly, but a couple came close.

I also have a copy of "New Haven Power" which shows one of their Forneys, Pokanoket, at a used locomotive yard. Sitting behind the engine is a TINY engine that might even be smaller that the WATO engine. The drivers on Pokanoket are 57". I posted a scan of this picture in the files section:

Both of these books are out of print but you can pick them up at used book sellers and train shows.

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:38:34 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

Cam brings up a good point. Many of us belong to clubs that were built for 1.5" scale. Before I build my first 3 3/4" riding car I plan to create a plywood template and attach it to a 1.5" flat. Our tunnel isn't done yet but it looks fine. Sidings, switch controls and even fences may be a problem.

My work-around will be to build industrial prototypes. Maine passenger cars are out of the question. I might be able to get away with the small B&B cars but even that may be a problem unless I "adjust" them. I eventually plan to build Ariel or Puck since they are the smallest 2' Forneys I know of.

I know that some folks have taken to building Maine prototypes in around 2 1/2' scale. While it's not correct, it does capture the flavor of the prototype.

Stan Z.

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:58:46 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Mason

Hi,

I'm building one. You can reach him at:

Rich and Linda Ulin
Ulin Locomotive Works
1160 Lilac St.
Broomfield, Co. 80020
(303) 466-8241

If you are an experienced machinist I would sure appreciate any advice on the machining of the castings. It is a complex locomotive. I'm just learning to machine and know only the very basics.

Ron Koehler

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:10:13 -0500
From: "Rick White"

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

Stan,
You have a good idea there, and you'll find that Frolin Marek did that for his 4" to foot engine. He has a web site to show it. See www.Frolin.net and go to Marek Mountain Mining and Railroad Company. He also sent out pictures from a recent run attached to an e-mail if you wish to see them. He remarked on just where he hit what on which tracks.

Rick White
HALS
SWLS
SVLS

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:11:29 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: 15" to 24" railway Wanted

Hi all,
If you get this notice more than once I apologize for inconveniencing you.
I have been asked to locate and install a miniature railroad on the south of Vancouver Island. It will be used as a business enhancement for the land owner. The land owner would like something within the 15" to 24" gauge for comfortable riding. (his claim)
His choice of motive power in order of preference is
1) Steam outline gas / diesel hydraulic drive unit,
2) Diesel outline gas / diesl hydraulic drive unit,
3) Actual steam locomotive.
If you know of a reasonably priced railroad equipment in Western Canada or in the PacificWest and Northwest of the United Steates please forward contact details.
Thanks
Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 08:39:48 -0000
From: "David Breaker"

Subject: 15" Loco Wanted

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a steam, 15inch loco, which can seat 2 people side by side, in the UK. British style is wanted. I am mainly keeping an eye out for this sort of loco, to consider and make note of, so I know what sort of price they sell for. If anyone knows of any, please e-mail me .

Thanks
David

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 07:24:17 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Mason

Ron, FYI
I am subscribed to the quarterly "7+ Railroader" (formerly the "7+ Narrow Gauger") and it has been running a series of articles on building the Mason Bogie. It has been writtin by Richard Ulin himslef. Not a detail by detail series but a good overview. Back issues are available. The address for the "7+ Railroader" is,

7+ Railroader
3840 W. Hastings Ave.
Amarillo, TX 79124-7908
e-mail: rwilliams@pan-tex.net
Web Page: http://www.7plusrailroader.com/

Bruce Mowbray (president)
TMB Manufacturing And Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:59:24 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

Stan,
Our club, PVLS has very good clearences... my 2 1/2" loco and cars and esp. my wide caboose do just fine.

Barry

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 16:35:02 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

Thanks Barry,

I thought the entrance to the passenger siding was a little close. Rich had told me that anything up to 24" should be Okay. Some of the 3 3/4" cars are pretty long if built exactly to scale. I really don't have a need for anything that big. I just need enough room for two kids and maybe three adults.

Stan

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:28:05 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

RHS is rolled hollow section- in this case rectangular steel tube

Geo A Paxon

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:35:10 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

I have bought casting from Kieth down here recently so I reckon he is still selling them. He goes off to the Middle East to service a railroad he supplied there and that's makes him hard to find, but he comes back eventually.

Geo A Paxon

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:56:27 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Note to Ken Burns, Bill Laird, Doug Liggett & Ron Koehler:
As all you have all expressed interest in the archbar truck casting we use down here, give me a week to draw a decent set of plans so you can understand the construction and then determine if you want some. (We have never found a need for them down here, but I am sure it would be helpful as you can't jumop in your car and drive over to ask a question.) I will work up a price FOB as the costs will vary somewhat depending on where they are going. Shipping by surface mail will reduce costs. Our dollar down here (Australia) is really down at the moment, so the castings will be a good price in US$ terms.

I can be reached at my private email which is paxon@pnc.com.au.

By the way, we are just about finished with the patterns for 2-1/2" scale trucks from under the D&RGW 6500 class flats. These are Bettendorf type trucks with a 4'11" wheelbase. Sideframes and bolster will be aluminium and the spring plank will need to be machined from steel flatbar. The lids will be working lost wax castings. The lettering placed on the sideframes by ASF will be on the model trucks. Should get the patterns to the foundry for first casting within a month. Will advise when they are ready if anyone is interested.

Geo A Paxon

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:36:50 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Anyone doing passinger car trucks in 2 1/2 scale?

Ron Koehler

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:01:32 -0700
From: "Dennis & Marie Weaver"

Subject: RE: Arch Bar Trucks

Ron,

Dave Conway has castings for the D&RGW passenger car trucks. Nice quality. I have one full set of castings here with the exception of the leaf springs. Dave does not have E-mail but eh can be reached by writing to;

Conway Locomotive
903 S. Victory Blvd.
Burbank, CA 91502

Catalog price is $2

Dennis

Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 07:58:29 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

George,

I'm also interested in what the trucks would cost. Bill and I have been talking about building some here from scratch. And based on cost, casting are always easier.

Please let us know what you think a pair would cost?

thanks!
Frolin Marek
Marek Mountain Mining
San Antonio, Texas

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:07:24 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

For Frolin Marek: I have patterns at the foundry now for a few pairs for us, so will call for them this week and advise as to latest cost. Will need to add shipping of course. Recommend surface mail as it will be much cheaper and they can't so much damage to castings. Will weigh a lot to see what they come to, but even aluminium gets expensive via airmail. We have never done drawings as we have never needed them. I will get busy and do some drawings as you guys will need them up there. My mate Bruce has a digital camera so we are taking photos and will get them out to the group. We have built four versions of trucks from the castings so far: the standard 3'7" wheelbase ones such as under the D&RGW box cars and gons, the 4'8" version as were under the short reefer, the 3'7" leaf spring trucks for the caboose, and a version with extended archbars like the Carter/Westside Lumber Co trucks. Will photograph all versions and send them your way for a look.

Geo. A Paxon

Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 06:36:52 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Ron

It also might be mentioned here that Dave Conway also has castings for real D&RGW 2-1/2" scale arch-bar trucks (real, vice cast ones). Both his arch-bar and his passenger trucks are very close to scale, make into beautiful trucks. The last time I was out west and in Dave's shop, I think I saw that he had some of the arch-bars and springs for the passenger trucks preformed to save you that work.

As does Dennis, I also have sveral sets of the arch-bar. and highly recommend them. In addition to the mailing address Dennis provided, Dave Conway can also be reached via email to Rudy Van Wingen(Como ROundhouse). Rudy's email is: dmmcomo@sprintmail.com Just add a note at the top for Rudy to pass to Dave Conway.

And if you need couplers, Dave has some of the best looking 2-1/2" couplers you will find.

Rudy also offers arch-bar trucks...and for either he or Dave, you don't have to pay shipping outside the country. Both of the above gentlemen are great to work with.

Don Orr
Suffolk, Va

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:18:45 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Thanks,

Ron Koehlr

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:22:15 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

REPLY TO RON & DON:
In case the address for Rudy VanWingen - Como Roundhouse bombs, here is the one I use, and that has worked within the last week.
dmmcomo@socal.rr.com. I believe Rudy changed last summer.
Howard Springer

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 14:37:10 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

Stan Z: Do you speak of the ineffable Russ Steeves and his itty bitty Forney?
And if Russ is reafding this how is #1 progressing now that you have (almost sinlehanded) rebuilt Waushakum LS?

Cam

Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 18:12:30 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Track Clearances

Cam,

Yes, Russ comes to our club a couple times a year. He and I had a nice little Mainiac chat during his last visit.

Stan Z.

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 19:44:18 -0700
From: "Daniel & Marianne"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Hi All,

Tom Miller and Steve Easlon have passenger car trucks in 2 1/2" scale. Steve Easlon's Email address is ( caborn@hdo.net ). Steve lives outside of Alturas, CA now and also has Arch Bar, and Bettendorf trucks in 2 1/2" scale, as well as couplers too. Tom Millers is in 2 1/2" scale with brakes, and his trucks are out of this world to see the detail in them. I don't have Tom's email.

I have Steve's, Bettendorf trucks in castings unfinished. Waiting for springs, and drawings so I can build up three gondolas and his Davenport D RGW #50 0-4-0.

Dan Davis

Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 04:17:28 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Subject: Re: Building Tasha - Lil Lima

Thanks for the info. I'll try to call them again Monday. thanks to Fr. Finelli for having the phone numbers to both Live Steam and Modeltec on his site. I have looked at the pics from Kitsap about as close as I could. I can't wait to get more info. Thanks again, MIKE

Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:23:55 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re: Track Clearances

Folks,

I went to a private track in Katy, Texas on Saturday for a mini-meet I put together (was only 175 miles drive, one way). A couple folks from the 'Alamo Area' group went over to run trains for the day.

Two things came of our trip worth some thought, one being on clearances...

When we arrived, a friend joked and asked if my engine would be able to clear and run on his track. Mark's answer sums it up to me, what we are discussion on clearances... "We have tree trimmers, weed whackers and a chain saw, the engine will be able to run on this track".

Maybe an extreme attitude to some, maybe no possible in some cases when utilizing an extremely tight easement, but the bottom line was... we cut the trees and shrubs back enough so that you could walk the track or walk either side of a train, without scratching your face on stuff... for most of the track. And my big narrow gauge diesel ran!

The second was... it seems few have done what we did, meaning a small group go to his track and help do spring cleaning, tree and shrub trimming and track maintenance, for the chance to run even if for a short period. We now have an open invite to come back to run.

Sometimes you have to take the first step to helping a private track owner maintain his track, and you may end up with another track you can visit!

On clearances... are you looking at prototype or your stick ruler and email logic?

As I recall riding on the C&TS and D&S many times, and hicking the route thru cuts and the tunnels, few places have that tight of a clearance that a brakeman can not walk along side the train.

And in 7.5" comparision, most don't have real mountain rock cuts for an excuse. But instead, a man-made obstruction placed to close to the track in the first place.

Frolin
MMM

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:58:38 +0100
From: "Min Rail"

Subject: Passenger Carrying Miniature Railways. Guidance on Safe Working Practise

The long awaited revision to TN3 Guidance (1992) issued by the UK Health & Safety Executive is due to be published September 2001.

All revisions have now been completed but I have not yet been able to establish if there are any changes from the consultation version published in April 2000. Does anyone know?

Relevant contact at H&SE has changed from Terry Williams to Gavin Howat. H&SE Glasgow. Tel: 0141 275 3082.

Adrian Sant

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:32 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Protech

Hi all,
Any pros and cons from members about Protech Engineering and their line of 7 1/2 gauge arch bar trucks? I just found their site on the web and was wondering.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:28:03 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Protech

Dennis:

What is Protech's url?

Quentin

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:02:41 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Archbar trucks from downunder

Enclosed find a few shots of the trucks we use down here as was requested by several group members. Will re-send note with other photos since Yahoo limits the mail to less than 1 MByte. The photos may be a bit dark. We shot them today on avery overcast day. Hopefully the sun will return and we can proivde an encore with better resolution.

A pair can be built from eight journal box castings and four centre castings.

So far we have built four configurations of trucks from these castings. These include the D&RGW 3''7" box car and gon trucks, the 4'8"short reefer trucks, the 3'7"leaf spring caboose trucks, and a pattern with extended archbars that look somewhat like Carter or Westside Lumber Co. trucks.

Arches are bent from 1/4 by 1 inch flat bar. Bolster is welded from 1" by 2 " rectangular steel tube. We use both inside and outside hung brakes using aluminium shoes. They are easy to build and are durable. We use standard springs for the coils spring versions available from Century Spring Co. from the US. Spring lengths are short enough to permit a wheel to be lifted about 1/4 " to ensure good equalization and tracking.

These trucks were designed by Bruce McLintock down here, have been is use for 10 years, are well proven in service under rider cars as well as show cars. Anyone interested can request further info via the group or my private email which is paxon@pnc.com.au

Photos of the finished trucks as well as the raw castings are enclosed.

Geo A Paxon

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:46:58 EDT
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: Archbar trucks from downunder

Geo>
Thanks for sending through the information,It was very interesting! Do you have a cost worked up?

Thanks

Doug Liggett

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:30:54 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Protech

Quentin,
I haven't got their URL as I found the information on http://www.discoverlivesteam.com and looked in the "For Sale" Section. I was going to pass on the information to a friend but wanted to know how good the product is. There is a picture and it looks like an arch bar for 2 1/2" scale.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:50:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: drgw50tc@webtv.net

Subject: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Does anybody know a reliable source of 2 1/2 scale stake pockets? I have been waiting almost a year for Real Trains to ship and would very much like to run my D&RGW flat cars this season.

Tanx TC.

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 03:16:56 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Have you tried Rudy Van Wingen at Como Roundhouse Products? He has 'bout anything you want for 2-1/2" scale cars. Send him an email at :

dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Hope you find it...

Don Orr, Suffolk, Va

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:45:01 -0700
From: "Ken Burns"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Yes Rudy....when will you have stake pockets ready???
Ken Burns

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:54:49 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Try Rudy VanW (aka Calvin) at Como Roundhouse for 2 1/2" scale pockets. Dave Rohrer, now rumored to be at Roll Models, had 3 3/4" single strap pockets for the two footers for a while. Don't know if still available.

Ca,m B

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:33:03 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re: Archbar trucks from downunder

Geo,

Those trucks look really nice. Am eager to see the additional photos. Plus maybe one or two with the ng cars you run them under!
And to find out the price info!

Frolin
MMM

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:05:04 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Boys:

Real Trains has had my money for some wheels since August, is this a regular occurance with them??

Mike Decker

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:59:19 -0000
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: Archbar trucks from downunder

Same here. What size wheels are used in the pictures?
Pat

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:01:51 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Don't believe they are. I asked RMI for castings for a flatcar and RMI got back to me they were going to make them available after the first of the year but have heard nothing from them since last year that they are in production.

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:13:26 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2 scale stake pockets

Mike,

This appears to be the pattern with Real Trains. I sent in an order in early December with a credit card # for a set of trucks. Got an e-mail back saying an out-of-stock part was being made and delivery was expected in 3 weeks or a month. I called once in Feb. and a person said "he" would call me back. No call back so I cancelled the order last week.

Real Trains appears to have a great line of products but they do not produce. Too bad.

Jim Hoback
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:03:23 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Real Trains, P.S.

In fairness to the owner of Real Trains, I should mention that I heard that he had some sort of back injury and was "out of commission". This was quite some time back. I was also told that his "real" business was a large production CNC machine shop and the train parts was only a sideline. Not surprising in our hobby which will only support a limited number of full-time suppliers.

All that being said, I believe "he" (or one of his friends) could have notified his customers of the situation and the expected delivery times on orders he had. A simple note on his web site would help.

Jim Hoback
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:29:58 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: Real Trains, P.S.

In fairness to the owner of Real Trains, I should mention that I heard that he had some sort of back injury and was "out of commission". This was quite some time back.

That may be a reason, but it isn't an excuse for poor (illegal) service.

All that being said, I believe "he" (or one of his friends) could have notified his customers of the situation and the expected delivery times on orders he had. A simple note on his web site would help.

That would help. But remember, if you order something AND the business accepts your money, they are required by law to tell you if they are unable to supply the stuff within 30 days and give you an option to cancel for a full refund. Anyone having a complaint in this regard is advised to contact the USPost Office Inspectors office. If you really get honked off, make a fraud complaint.

Well, that's the law. I wouldn't do it, however. We'll never have an overabundance of suppliers and need all we can get. But it is worth a phone call to the supplier to find out what is going on.

JerryK

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:28:26 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Real Trains, P.S.

Thanks, Jim:

I've got a call in to him now, we'll see if he callls back.

Mike

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:25:05 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: Protech

I have a set on order. They are to be here next week. I am having them powdered coated. Will let you know when they get here.

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:52:56 -0700
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: Real Trains, P.S.

Those of us who have been in the hobby for a while have all seen suppliers come and go, and some we really miss. Anybody who gets into the Live Steam supply business has to realize he/she isn't going to get rich, maybe not break even. It takes capital and business savvy to run any small business, and many folks go into business, not just live steam supply, without enough of either.

It is a credit to the late Chet Peterson and Irene Lewis that they were able to do as well as they did. One former east coast firm was an example of a supplier that found himself on the wrong side of the balance sheet, the owner was a friend, and I was sorry to see things go sour for him, but for the last few years in business he had too many irons in the fire, he over promised and under delivered. I talked to another former live steam business owner to enquire about purchasing the assets of the company, he was so soured by his experience that he wouldn't discuss it.

No, it isn't easy, and we need to have patience with suppliers. Try asking for a refund from Real Trains in writing, by certified mail. In the future use your credit card, most suppliers won't charge your card until the products are shipped. You also have the opportunity to protest the charges if they are made and no product is received. My Credit Union was able to reverse a charge from an internet based company that delivered a the wrong product and refused to take it back or give a refund.

Problem is many business owners stop communicating once things go awry. This only makes matters worse, people get mad and frustrated as we have seen here. Once lawyers are involved things can go from bad to worse, it is likely the business owner will do what he can to protect himself, and if the courts get involved don't expect to get your money back or only a few pennies on the dollar. The banks and creditors will get the assets, but you probably won't get a dime, it's a flaw in our legal system, but those who can least afford it get burned.

So far as fraud is concerned, don't waste your time going that direction, it probably wasn't the owners intent to defraud. Keep that in mind, because the courts will, if it ever gets that far. It is my experience, unless a number of complaints are received, the Post Office won't be interested. They have much bigger fish to fry!

Caveat emptor!

Linc

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:47:23 EDT
From: cptboatman@aol.com

Subject: Re: Real Trains, P.S.

I am still waiting for my train, He said 3 months, that was 10 months ago. I have laid track and it is just gathering dust. I am so depressed. 30 phone calls 30 excuses.

RAY

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:19:27 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Real Trains, P.S.

This has been a pattern developing with Real Trains since 1999, and it is unfortunate.
I visited the operation in November of that year, and ordered 2 sets of trucks, which Bill said he would have out to me in 3 weeks. It wasn't until 3 months and several phone calls later that they showed up.

The whole shop at that time was all train/live steam related production.
Yet the production was going on late hours of the night as most of his friends came in after hours to run off parts on the CNC machines.

If Bill or Jim wish to keep their reputation in this hobby, they should respond with product, or a refund. No empty promises or excuses. Most of us in this hobby are becomming intolerable to the fact.

Nuff said,
Jeff Badger

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:28:30 +0100
From: "Min Rail"

Subject: Real Trains

Could the problem at Real Trains be that they are not charging enough for their product? Too many people in our hobby want something for nothing and commercial outfits often find themselves having to compete with over enthusiast amateurs prepared to produce product in their shed and sell it for cost.

The recent correspondance on arch bar trucks says it all!

Adrian Sant

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:18:31 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: Real Trains

At about $640 USD for one pair of 7-1/2" gauge, 1.5" scale trucks, I don't think they are cheap at all. I would say the problem is management.

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:33:11 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Real Trains

I would say the problem is management.

Ditto that Jim... Jeff

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:38:24 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Real Trains

As a side light to all these comments let me make another observation on the Donovans.
They are affiliated with Jack Sessums, a well known Hollywood effects man who has a 15" gauge railroad not far from Real Trains shop. Jack is also a fine machinest, and would not doubt that some of the distractions of the Donovans are factored into what ever Jack is producing for Hollywood or himself at any given time.

JB

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:22:27 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Real Trains

Do you really find it acceptable to give false promises on deliveries and then do not communicate with the buyer, just because you did not calculate your sales prices properly?
Arno

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:37:05 -0000
From: bill@realtrains.com

Subject: Re: Real Trains

This message is from Bill Donovan, owner of Real Trains.

First of all I would like to thank each of you for taking the time to write, correspond, or complain. It at least shows that you care about what we are trying to do here.

On Christmas Eve in 1999 I was injured in a car accident. The new injuries were relatively minor but an old back injury was aggravated and caused a lot of pain. With all the doctors to go to, who typically treated me with pain killers, and all the other effects I was not myself on many days most of the year. We finally got the insurance company to approve an operation after more than a year and that has now been done.

As part of my recovery they told me to set in a straight back chair.
This resulted in my use of a chair that is normally reserved for my cat. After three days the chair broke and I fell backwards hitting the worst possible spot on the edge of a piece for furniture. The recovery from this has resulted in my being totally off work for over three months.

My father has attempted to keep the shop running but due to his age is limited to what he can do. Two friends have also done a lot and many of the items we sell have been shipping without delays. The items that I alone am responsible for have stopped and I am very sorry for all the problems this has resulted in.

I have been trying to return phone calls working from my home. The problem I have with this is if I get an answering machine I cannot leave a message since I cannot depend on being awake if someone calls my home and I am not at the shop. We get 30 to 40 calls a day, often people looking for HO trains, etc. and it takes a lot of time.

We have always accepted credit cards and never charge the card until the day we ship. To those few people (currently our files show two) who have been waiting a long time for something that they paid by check I offer a full refund and will ship the items for free when they are done.

I would like to respond to a few of the concerns in the message thread that resulted in this discussion:

We have had a delivery problem with arch bar trucks since last summer. We made a batch of 100 side frames and sent them off to be furnace brazed. Only 76 came back, they had a "furnace" problem. Since we had orders for almost all of them it led to a lot of issues about who got how many and some people ended up having to wait for the next batch. This has been delayed by my injury.

We have two people waiting for 2 1/2" scale stake pockets. We do not make these listing only 1 1/2" scale and 3" scale in our catalog. We have plans for a 2 1/2" scale flat car and will need stake pockets for it. I have been waiting to get to this new product and that is the hold up on these parts. I thought everyone understood that this was the case but agree that it has taken too long.

Real Trains is a full time business, established almost five years.
We shipped 307 pairs of trucks last year, most within a few days.
With my injury some parts are now out of stock and only I know how to make them. Some suppliers also require my direct work to get the types of parts we want from them. We are working hard to get back on track. I expect to be back full time (barring chair problems!) in May. I would like anyone's comments and will do my best to answer them all. Please give me a few days to respond though.

Bill Donovan

Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:05:32 -0000
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: Real Trains

Thanks for letting us know your status Bill. This gives me hope for ordering from you in the future. I have not ordered in the past, but have been meaning to. One thing I might suggest is to update your web pages some time soon with new and current info as this is something that could be done seated? Any web pages over six months old tend to be looked at as dead. Also were the 2 1/2" steel car floor and frames (25C1A) completed? They are listed as "soon" with a March, 2000 date on the web page. Just wondering.

Pat, future customer, Turner

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:39:07 -0700
From: "Realtrains Bill"

Subject: Re: Re: Real Trains

Thanks for writing. I am not much of a computer expert and do not do the web pages. The catalog on the web is last years. We have a new printed one (which I did) if you can give a mailing address.

The delay in updating the web has been the fact that the technical support person at our ISP was doing the website. He left the company and has not been replaces. I have a new person but he wants to use all new software, etc. This has slowed down this progress even though I have plenty of setting down time.

The good news is that many projects that needed engineering are now done. We have steel car floors in three sizes, gondolas, flat cars, cordwood cars, and tank cars in 1 1/2" scale. The only thing current in 2 1/2" scale is the steel floors. The 2 1/2" scale arch bar trucks should be in stock as soon as I get back to work on them. The flat car then a gondola will be next.

We have been making good progress on our 3 3/4" scale American. My dad has been doing most of this work and is now putting rods on the prototype. Hope to have it on air soon.

Bill

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:10:29 +0200
From: "AD JANSEN"

Subject:

Hello. I'm Ad Jansen and i build some 7.25 inch locomotives. Does annyone have a good dessing from a wisstle compleet with the valve. ?

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:19:39 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: riders

My round tu-it has finally arrived and I'm planning to build one or two riding cars this week. These will be short 4' industrial type cars, something like peat wagons. I don't need or want really big cars, I only need to transport a few people. The first car will have a center mounted, straddle type seat. I have a couple questions for this group:

1)	The cars will carry adults and little kids. What is the optimal height for the seats above the deck?

2)	Does anyone run cars with facing seats, and how do riders like them?

I like the little cars from the "Banana Train" but most folks ride facing forward. The little yellow cars will go nicely with my school bus yellow critter. I'll probably run with a 3-point suspension, which brings up my last question:

3)	How much movement should I allow for on the pivoting axel?

Thanks,

Stan Z.

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:57:17 -0500
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: riders

Stan:

FYI
Little Engines made a neat little 2 axle riding car to go with their vertical boiler locomotive. You may want to check out that car.

Take care

Curtis Hustace

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:14:13 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: riders

Curtis,

I just went to their web site and found they don't list any riding cars. Do you know where I might be able to track them down? I'm really planning to use my round tu-it this week.

Thanks,
Stan

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:16:59 -0500
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: riders

Stan:

Give them a call (650-728-1852) . . . those cars I was talking about are listed in their catalog (at least the last one I have). Other than that I am of no help. You might want to check with RMI see if they have anything ready to roll

Curtis H.

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:36:40 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: small car people movers

Stan
I have just received a 60" riding car from RMI. It has two reversible seat backs. The main problem is that it has no wheel travel or vertical axle movement! We derailed it while testing it Saturday. They do make a 4-wheeled car base 29"-37"

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:02:16 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

To Paxon G&C
George -
I would like to buy a enough of your archbar truck parts castings to build a pair of trucks. Currently, I build my trucks using a journal box fabbed from rect.stl.tube. This involves a lot of "jewelry work", as I have to cut off one side of the tube (the bottom) and make a new piece to replace it out of flatbar, shape the doors from 18 ga sheet, and silver solder hinge lugs for them onto the JB. Your castings look like a much simpler solution. Please include me on your list of "interested parties", and let me know how much the parts will cost.
I don't really need any drawings, as the parts would be fitted into my present design. If you could let me know what the castings weigh, I could explore the shipping cost with UPS.
Regards - Howard Springer
PS - I live in the Seattle WAshington area.

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:05:49 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: small car people movers

For Stan, there are drawings on the RMI site that should help. Go with the 2 axle cars. I have 3 of them and they are great.

Jeff Badger

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 12:02:12 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: riders

Stan
In 1990 Modeltec ran a series on building the Little Engine CRAB. The May 1990 issue has the plans for a small 2 axle riding car.
Rich

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:00:55 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: Mechanical lubricators

Hi, the SR & CL (3 3/4 in. scale) is looking for a mechanical lubricator for our #7 that will handle valve oil.
What can you recommend?
Thanks in advance for your time.

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 12:22:10 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: Mechanical lubricators

Tom
I used a "Fosters" traction lubricator from:
http://www.livesteammodels.com/
It comes in 3", 4", & 6" scale. This was for my WATCO 2 1/2" scale 2-6-0.

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 12:36:13 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Mechanical lubricators

Without digging through a too high stack of 7+ references is this the 3 3/4" scale B&SR #7 that came out of Toronto now in the K'zoo area?

Cam Brown

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:47:55 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Mechanical lubricators

YES IT IS.

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:56:59 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Mechanical lubricators

Tom

Another dealer has contacted me about building a short run of lubricators for some of his local customers. These lubricators will have a capacity of approx 1/2 pint...this is a tank size of approx 4" x 4" x 4-1/2" h. with two outlets.

If this is what you are looking for and you are interested, contact me.
This will most likely be a 1-time run.

Don Orr,
Suffolk, Va 23432
LOCOPARTS
757-255-2815
1-1/2", 2-1/2" and 3-3/4" scale steam locomotive accessories, gas burners and tenders

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 12:58:27 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: riders

Stan:

We tried facing seats in our aluminum center depressed gondola riding cars a few years ago at Train Mountain. The backward facing seats were always the last to be used. Those who rode in them complained. Worse, when there was only one passenger, that meant that the one seat on the car that was used was the forward facing seat which made the car light on the front end and therefore prone to derailing. Our recommendation is to avoid "cafe" seating.

There is one situation where a backwards facing seat is a plus. When hauling the public, a backwards facing seat behind the engineer for the conductor is a great deterrent from kids (of all ages) doing what they are not supposed to do. It makes for safer riding.

Quentin

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:22:33 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Mechanical lubricators

Tell me more, Does it have two outputs or do you have to tee it?

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:24:31 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: Mechanical lubricators

Tom
I got the 6" size which is 1 3/4" wide x 2 1/2" long x 3 1/4" tall. It has one out put and is made out of cast brass. Cost was $128.00 plus $21.00 shipping.

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:09:11 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: riders

Quentin,

Thanks for the input, I'm toying with the idea of making the seat back movable like on a real train. Then the seat could serve as both forward and backward facing. This will probably require a longer car, I'll have to work out the numbers.

Stan

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:39:36 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: riders

Stan:

To make the movable back work you would have to put the seat exactly in the middle of the car to equalize leg room for each direction of travel. If you have a "one way" seat, such as a boat seat, you can have more leg room. Do have a point to point railroad with no loop at the ends?

Quentin

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:18:24 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: riders

Quentin,

I belong to Pioneer Valley Live Steamers, we have a good sized club layout with multiple loops.

Stan

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:43:59 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Re: Rail Foot Angle was Rail Sample Scan

REPLY:
Thanks Bruce - I guess I was pretty close when I guessed 14�. Now, I can be more accurate - we build combination rail hold-downs and point slides for our switches, so it was desirable that we get accurate if possible.

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:07:14 -0000
From: ddickens@E-Z.NET

Subject: Re: riders

Stan,
I hauled a whole bunch of people in my days of 7+ NG. I used other people's cars, I bought other peoples cars, I finally made my own based on what I had learned.

My final design was a 21 inch wide gondola with a 11.5 inch wide length wise bench. It is the best fit for mothers with kids and any other size and combinations of the human body. It is very difficult for anyone to get their weight out to the side to any extent with this set up in contrast to being able to shift your body out to the edge of a crosswise seat. It also restrains feet and legs.

The appearance is railroady in contrast to these boat seat deals that look like a run-away dentist office.

If you set up the design so that two benches can go in one car,(assuming you build a pair) then the other body is open for hauling tool boxes, fuel, etc when traveling. Also the empty gondola can be furnished with a few cushions for a great night time ride. Hey, don't laugh. I even had an ice bucket in my engineer's riding car.

Don Dickens

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:57:48 EDT
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: riders

Don,
I still have your two gondola's with the straddle bench down the center.
Those two cars you built are still the best that I have seen - anywhere. A bit heavy but when you consider the capability of hauling five and six adults in each one they must be strong. The disk brakes are excellent. They ride like a dream.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:21:46 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: thanks Re: riders

First I'd like to thank everyone that sent me information. It looks like I'll be building the first car as a center bench, around 21" wide. The one question that didn't get addressed was; What is the optimal height for the seat?

I have reviewed some of my Modeltec and Live Steam magazines, but I was looking for some guidance from this highly experienced group.

Thanks again,
Stan

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:27:57 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Hubert

I'd like to take a minute to thank Hubert for creating this list. We're now 220 members strong and growing. I have gotten a lot of good information from this group. We now have representation from not only the hobbyist side, but also the manufacturers side.

Thanks Hubert!

Stan

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:52:21 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: thanks Re: riders

What is the optimal height for the seat?

Well Stan, are you hauling children or adults? Or probably both?

Jeff

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:23:27 -0700
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Re: riders

Maybe Doug knows the height of the sides and the benches in those gons that I built or can measure them the next time the Kitsap groups runs.

Retirement means 6 Saturdays a week.
D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:52:22 -0700
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Re: Re: riders

Don,

<< I even had an ice bucket in my engineer's riding car. >>

Now we all know according to the 'rule book' the bucket was for ice tea, right?
:o)

russ@hobby-tronics.com
Chiloquin, Oregon

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:51:36 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: thanks Re: riders

Jeff,

Both.

Stan

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:26:08 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: thanks Re: riders

For an overall height, I would recommend 12". I have built this height not only in 7.5" gauge but in the larger park gauges also. With adults though you will want to consider leg room...

Jeff

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:42:47 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: thanks Re: riders

Promisory note: I'm getting sketches together for the riding cars at the Largo Central whicdh does a huge business in hauling the public. Trying to convince my home club. Adirondack LS to "do" a couple. Very stable!

More later oif you want it. Got to go - I'm the cook here.
Cam Brown

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:51:03 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: thanks Re: riders

Would like to see your plans for the riding cars. Here in Missouri, there are some nice drop center metal framed cars with a bench seat. They are standard gauge cars so I imagine they would be about 12-14 inches wide. Don't know the seat height.

Ron Koehler

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:34:55 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: thanks Re: riders

Stan - the bench cars I made up the club are 11" high. Even the cars with boat seats I try to keep around 11" to the top of the seat. Has seemed to work well.

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:38:43 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: rail car derailment

Question:
Bought a 72" Flatcar with (2) reversible seat backs from RMI.Was test running it last week and it was the lead car at the time . We were starting to go around a 60'r. curve when the leading trucks jumped the track. The club that I was at told me that they had never had a derailment at this spot befor. This car in my opinion is not equlized.You can lift one wheel off the rail 1/2" and the wheel dirrectly behind it lifts the same distance.There is a Delrin 4"x10" 1/4" pad that fits on top of the trucks and is kept in place with two lugs. However when I removed the trucks for inspection, the Delrin pads had pivoted 45 degrees.The company has also added a round disk.Not sure of its exact purpose.I have taken care of the revolving delrin pad; it's called liquid nails.It was also suggested to me that I should grease it good and make sure from now on I should pull this car and not push it.Opinions please.

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:56:53 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: small car people movers

Jeff,
I also have 3 RMI 2 axle riding cars and am very happy with them.
I keep it to two small poeple or one large to keep control on the weight.

Barry Bridges

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:16:50 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: rail car derailment

We had some "problem cars" at PVLS last year. They turned out to be over sprung. The springs were too stiff for the loads. This issue has been addressed, by Rudy, I think. You may wish to put some lighter duty springs on the trucks.

I also read an article provided to me by another member on this list about adding a rivet to create a pivot point in the middle of the truck. If I can find the article I'll forward the reference.

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 06:55:35 -0700
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: rail car derailment

Concerning derailments:
Trucks must be flexible enough to allow any wheel to be rolled up on a 1/4 inch piece of scrap (wood will do and under the tread only, not the flange) and still have the other three wheels sit solid on the rail.

One fix that used to be used was to drill and tap a hole in the upper surface of the bolster so that a round head machine screw inserted in the hole provided a pivot point between the side frame and the bolster. Another way is to hand file a slight radius on the surface of the bolster where it contacts the side frame.

A second place that can jump up and bite you is having too precise a machining job on the bores for the axle bearing in the side frames. Unground bearings (less finished on the outside) located in a slightly sloppy fit allow the axles to tilt up or down as one rail rises or falls in relation to the other.

One man's opinion: RMI better put in a test track that has all the horrors of a bad piece of club track. Cars that are fusssy about staying on the rails aren't going to sell for very long.

D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:06:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Dobrowolski

Subject: 7 1/2" scale Train and Trolly for sale

I saw this message in the newsgroups and thought someone here might be interested.

Thanks,
Bob D.

disclaimer: I am in no way associated with the seller. I am just passing along the info. Please contact the seller as listed below. I have no additional info.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith"
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:39 PM
Subject: 7 1/2" scale Train and Trolly for sale

My Uncle has a gas powered train and a 36 volt electric trolly for sale.
The trolly is 90% complete and the train has several cars and track. The train needs rust removed and to be painted. If interested, e-mail me and I will give you the phone number to call for more information. They are near Atlanta Georgia and you would have to take care of picking them up as he has no way to deliver them.

E-mail me at eddies1@earthlink.net
Thanks

=====
Bob Dobrowolski

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:10:54 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: RE: Hubert

Stan,

thank you very much.

I'm really happy about the growing of our group, and also, I got many new friends through the list. So, we all have something.

Hubert
Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:13:13 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: rail car derailment

Concerning RMI two axle riding cars and derailments:

I had that problem at first until after a discussion with RMI, I got the correct springs for the load. RMI seems to have 3 different strength springs. For my caboose, box car and tank car, I use the weakest springs and NO PROBLEMS.

For the riding cars I use the mid weight springs and that seems to work so far.
The cars truck ok with no weight and with, say 200lbs or so. Any more load and the springs fully compress.
I think 2 axle cars can be a bit problematic vis 2 truck cars. Maybe.

Barry Bridges

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:42:36 EDT
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: rail car derailment

Group;

Do the "BROOM STICK" trick, if the trucks won't roll over a broom stick, then the springs are too tight. Use softer springs.

I roll my MIKADO over a broom stick to check the equalization.

Just my two cent worth.

David Hannah, III

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:30:44 EDT
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Bender Plywood

Just a note to share a recent find that excited me and would like to share with fellow modelers.

I'm in the process of building a combo Passenger/baggage car and needed plywood for making those severe bends in the forward/aft ends of the roof. I usually use door skins (1/8 plywood) laminated two thick on a form jig to build curved roofs, but door skins are not all that great in really tight curves.

Yesterday several of us stopped in at an old time lumber yard in Seattle (since 1892) that deal primarily with tradesmen and discovered bender plywood in 1/8" thickness. This plywood that we found was labeled as Poplar AB/BB Bender and comes in 4'X8' sheets. A bit pricey at $23.33 a sheet but when in a bind the cost is not all that unreasonable. Not only does it bend to 4" or less bend radius, it is beautiful. It is three ply plywood and the center ply is very thin, thus giving the plywood the easy to bend characteristic. The plywood comes in two styles. The outer strands lengthwise or across the sheet. Choose the style to suit your bending needs.

When I asked why I had never seen this before I was told that very few places carry the product but sometimes it can be found in wood specialty businesses at a much higher cost for small sizes.

Being that this e-mail site should not be used for advertising I will not mention where it can be found but with a little research you should be able to find the material at some wood yards or wood specialty businesses.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:31:04 -0500
From: "Mike Eorgoff"

Subject: Re: rail car derailment

What are the specifics of this test setup?

Scale, gauge, wheel size, wheel center to center, broomstick diameter?

MikeE

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:36:44 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: rail car derailment

Hi Boomer:

You need to have some equalization between all the wheels on a truck, or a four-wheeled car, to keep the wheels on the track. Also, you need to have a "three-point" suspension between the two trucks and the body bolsters so that a long car won't be inclined to "bind up" when one truck twists in relation to the other on uneven track. The three-point suspension is achieved by having side bearings with just a working clearance on one truck (to keep the car body relatively stable), and either no side bearings or at least a considerably larger clearance on the other truck. This works on full size just as on models, though now days, full size cars usually have spring-loaded side bearings to keep the body from bouncing from one side to the other.

Mike Decker

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:02:11 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Re: Real Trains

Hi Bill:

Thanks for your explanation. I'll get in touch with you directly about my wheels.

Thanks,

Mike Decker

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:09:42 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Bender Plywood

I Would really like to know where the wood is available and I doubt it would be a transgression of the advertising policy. Is there a national chain that carries it? Thanks.

Ron Koehler

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:41:48 -0400
From: "Nathaniel C. Guest"

Subject: Spoked Drivers wanted

Does anyone know of the English guy who was going to produce a 1.5" scale LMS Dutchess 4-cylinder 4-6-2? How about a place to get 10.75" spoked drivers?

Thanks!

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:31:24 EDT
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Bender Plywood

Ron, I'll send it by separate e-mail to you. In using the bender wood I find that it will not do compound curves. The bender plywood as all plywood is noncompressible so the wood will not gather in without removing small segments when one end of the roof has a shorter arc than another.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 02:44:17 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Arch Bars

Anyone heard from George (down under) about our Arch Bar castings?

Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:29:52 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: FW. Chuck Francis

Hello all,

today I got the following message from the On3-list at egroups. My condolences to his family.

Hubert

Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:33:15 EDT
From: zul36@aol.com
Subject: Chuck Francis

Fellow Modelers,

Today I received a sad call informing me that Chuck Francis had passed away this morning. Chuck Francis was a sweetheart of a person and will be missed by all of his closest friends.
Chuck was a true finescaler, an outstanding machinist, and was mostly known for his correct Thin Film decals. He was in hon3 but had become a live steamer and was presently scratch building a finscale 2-1/2" RGS #40, unfortunately his health began to fail him and wasn't able to finish it. He leaves a legacy of decals for all scales and castings for 2-1/2" live steam engines and rolling stock that will live on for ever.

He will not be forgotten

Juan Carlos Zuloaga

Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:18:59 EDT
From: garyswoodcaboose@aol.com

Subject: Re: FW. Chuck Francis

Where was Chuck from...I knew a Chuck Francis that was into model railroading and had lost contact with him, I hope this isn't him. Thanks!

Date: 24 Apr 2001 15:23:00 -0000
From: <7-plus-NGM@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM

Uploaded by Frolin Marek

Here is the fully painted loco at the HALS club track. My son Jerry in the cab (on a booster seat). A bunch of wood for a 'temporary' test frame and body. Will run for a year to check clearances at various area tracks.

The loco is 72" long, to end seals, is 23" wide. The cab is 49" tall, and the entire sides come off to get in. The roof is removable. Clear view of the Roll Models trucks. Behind is my initial home-made flat car.

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:24:14 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: FW. Chuck Francis

Gary -

He was Henry Charles "Chuck" Francis, born and grew up in Pine Bluff, AR and for the past several years resided in Simi Valley, CA with his wife Shirley.

Rudy van Wingen

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:30:38 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Krause-Maffei (German? hydraulic) Locomotives

Hi gang - -
I have been trying to obtain info on the Krause-Maffei (German or Austrian?) Locomotive builders.
Specifically, I'm trying to find out about the hydraulic drive diesel loco's that were shipped to the US in the 60's (I think) and used by SP, Denver & Rio Grande?, and/or Santa Fe, maybe UP. I gather that they weren't too popular with most RR's, and that most ended up with SP.
As a retired hydraulic systems engineer/designer, I think that loco would be a fitting project for me. (It also has the advantage of a covered wagon type body which would lend itself to enclosing my liquid cooled, 20 hp v-twin engine, which is about 20" wide.) So far, all I have been able to scare up is a rather un-detailed illustration and a HO model by Rivarossi. I don't really feel comfortable with these as my only documentation. I heard that they were mentioned in some sort of SP historical book, but haven't found it yet.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Howard Springer

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:28:25 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Krause-Maffei (German? hydraulic) Locomotives

Hi Howard:

I don't have anything on the property, but I saw the D&RGW's "Owner's Manual" for the Karuss-Maffei Diesel-Hydraulics at the Colo. RR Museum, in either the later '60's or early 70's. The book may have belonged to the Museum, or been from Chris Ahrens' or the late Dick Cooper's collections. It might even have been something Bob was going to put in a Mail Auction, I really don't remember.

At any rate, I can tell you how they worked. First, let's do a couple definitions....for the non-hydraulic Engineers among us. The K-M's were true Hydraulic drive. Most people today call an hydraulic pump driving an hydraulic motor that is geared or chained to the axle "hydraulic" drive. I call that "Hydrostatic" drive. The drive on the K-M's was a Diesel engine coupled to a torque converter, driving a gear tower down to "cardon" or drive, shafts to gearboxes on the trucks. I don't recall if they drove all six axles, or just the two outer ones on each truck (like the EMD "E" series). The closest American railroad examples of the drive are the Miniature Trains/Alan Herschell 12"-14"-16"-22" gauge park trains, it's the same thing.

The Railroad's problems with the K-M's weren't that they weren't good locomotives, which they were, but that they were "different". They did overheat a little in the tunnels, but so did everyone else's loco's until the Tunnel Motors came along. The main problem was that, like the 1960's Mercedes' I used to drive, the first cost wasn't what killed you, it was the German Factory Required maintenance. And....(back then) if you got very far away from the shop, you better have your own set of Metric wrenches :>) So....they had to have their own mechanics in a "dedicated" shop, which limited their territory, and was just too much trouble for US railroads.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:38:55 -0400
From: "Casy Jones"

Subject: Coming to Germany

Hi All,

I'm going to Germany 5/2 through 5/15. Are there any Livesteamers in the Nurnberg area that I might visit? My schedule will be a busy one but I'll always take time to visit livesteamers. I have friends in the area who will be showing me around.

Hope to hear soon......tschuess...Jim Gould, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA.

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:31:59 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Krause-Maffei (German? hydraulic) Locomotives

Howard,

if memory serves me rightly, the American Krauss-Maffei's were built in two versions and designated ML 4000.
I think neither of them were covered wagons and, to make things worse for your purpose, the top section of the body was tapered in severely to permit extensive testing on the narrow clearances of the German Federal RR tracks prior to shipment to the US.
Arno

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:46:11 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Chuck Francis Memorial Service

There will be a Memorial Service for Henry C. "CHUCK" Francis on Saturday, May 5th at Newhart Four Square Church, 4200 Township Avenue, Simi Valley, CA.

Any one wishing to pay their last respects to Chuck and his family is invited to attend.

His entire collection of models, railroadiana and equipment has been accounted for in his last will and testament; please do not attempt to contact his widow about thier disposition.

Any questions may be directed to me.

Thank you for your consideration and respect; he was a close and dearly loved friend. A full obituary will be posted when it is complete.

Rudy van Wingen

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:20:28 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: Krause-Maffei (German? hydraulic) Locomotives

Last I saw of them a few months ago they were on a siding in Houston.

They were at the old ARMCO Steel plant siding off of Greens RD.

Vance

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:29:56 EDT
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: Krause-Maffei (German? hydraulic) Locomotives

In answer to your question, look for book written by Joe Strapac, Volume 2. The whole story about Southern Pacific Historic Diesels. Published in 1993.

Has all the information you are looking for.

Also check Qstation.org web page modeling BNSF 9944. A copy of what you are trying to build. Uses a hydraulic system just the Germans. I used a 20hp gas engine coupled up to an Eaton pump, driving 4 Char-lynn hydraulic motors.

David Hannah, III

PS Rudy has seen the diesel at Train Mountain.

Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:02:25 -0700
From: "Turner Family"

Subject: Apex?

Anyone going to Apex, N.C. this weekend for the meet?

Pat Turner

Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:42:24 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Coming to Germany

Hi Jim,

check out the following pages:

http://www.pankidata.de/Hobby/Bahnen/bahnen.htm http://www.dampf-modell-bahn.de/dmpfclub.htm

Sorry, both pages are only in German, but perhaps your friends can help you.

Hubert
Moderator of the 7-plus-ngm - mailing list

Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:21:37 -0700
From: Greg & Susan Robinson
Subject: GSQ TOUR 2001 --and updated Links page

Hello All,

Many of you have already received brochures in the mail. Now the GSQ TOUR 2001 information in on our web site. It may take a moment for all the photos to load, but we thought you'd enjoy them.

http://www.grandscales.com/gsqtour2001/index.html

You may also like to know that our Links pages has has been updated with a great many new railways and resources. Hope you enjoy.

http://www.grandscales.com/gsbookmark.htm

All the Best,
Greg

P.S. If you see this message more than three times, then you (like us) belong to too many discussion groups!

Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
530-527-0141 fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:35:31 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Chuck Francis Obituary

To all his friends and acquaintances:

H.C. "Chuck" Francis passed away on Sunday, April 22nd after a long illness. He is survived by his wife Shirley, daughter Carol of Overland, Kansas, son John, daughter-in-law Lisa, and 5 grandchildren. In addition Chuck has numerous surviving relatives in Pine Bluff, Arkansas and Louisiana. Chuck was born in Caruthersville, Missouri and grew up in Pine Bluff, Arkansas where he developed his early love for trains and steam locomotives cadging rides with the Cotton Belt crews in Pine Bluff.

Chuck was a multitalented individual. After a stint in the USAF during the Korean conflict where he made Master Sergeant, Chuck went on to earn a Masters Degree and California Teaching Credentials from CSULA which allowed him to teach Graphic Arts at Stevenson Jr. High and later Sutter Jr. High in Canoga Park; retiring after 29 years.

Chuck was a model railroader "par excellence". He was active in HO and O scale modeling and founded and operated Thin Film Decals which he subsequently sold and which continues today under new ownership. Chuck also was active in the Live Steam hobby and was in the process of building a 2.5" scale, 7.5" gauge model of RGS #40 which he intended to operate on the track at the Joshua Tree & Southern RR Museum and Club in the local high desert. The locomotive was almost ready to "run on air" at the time of Chuck's passing, something he had hoped to see. His amazingly detailed D&RGW "idler flat" has been donated to the JT&S RR Museum & Club where it will be displayed and operated for all to admire.

Chuck's talent was phenomenal. He created HOn3 and On3 scale models that were better and more detailed than the best available today at a time when imported brass models in these scales were in their infancy. Chuck made his own masters, molds, and investment castings in all scales. His 2.5" scale detail parts that he developed for his live steam models were turned over to Como Roundhouse Products and are available to everyone modeling in that scale.

He was a very gentle, soft spoken individual who never had a harsh word to say about anyone. He was a great believer in promoting youth both educationally and in the hobby, and to that end has donated his RGS #40 to a young man who will finish the locomotive in the manner that Chuck would approve so that it may be enjoyed and admired for many years to come.

He will be missed by his many and friends who had the privilege of knowing him, particularly his peer group which includes such notables in the hobby as Ken Barnhart, Bren Jones, Cliff Grandt, Chuck Trombly, Bob Brown...the list just goes on.

We loved you, Chuck!

A Memorial Service will be held on Saturday, May 5th at 2:00 PM at the New Heart Foursquare Church, 4200 Township Avenue, Simi Valley, CA., Pastor Paul Kuzma officiating. All are invited to attend.

Donations in Chuck's memory may be made to the New Heart Foursquare Church, the American Lung Association, and/or the American Heart Association.

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:46:07 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Coming to Germany

Jim,
Be sure to visit the "Verkers Museum". Lots of outstanding models and full sized steam stuff.

Bruce Mowbray (president)
TMB Manufacturing And Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:13:11 -0700
From: "Turner Family"

Subject: New Pages/Projects On line

For those that are interested? After lurking for some time now I am finally working on building my first 7.5" gauge car. You can see my progress here: http://members.nbci.com/on30/Gon.htm or look at all my live steam pages here: http://members.nbci.com/on30/LiveSteam.htm Not too many there yet, but more to come soon. Like next week!

Pat Turner: Pat@Sn3.org

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:03:04 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: VIME Spring Meet

Hi all,
Just a note to remind all those in the Pacific North West that VIME Spring Meet is the weekend of May 5 and 6, 2001. If you would care to drop by with or without and engine you would be welcome. Track gauges from 3 1/2" up to 7 1/2" with great loading / unloading facilities all around. Both days run from 9:00 am to 4:00 pm
Dennis Dalla-Vicenza
VIME Site
VIME Newsletters
SHAS Site
I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me here..

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:29:49 -0700
From: George Potter

Subject: Re: NG fever at the Dome

Amazing what you can find on the web.

My copy (original paper) is copyright 1913. Appears to be very close to what is on the web. I wonder what the differences were between the two (one displayed on the web page is copyright 1914), and now am wondering how many different editions / copyright dates were published.

Regards,
George Potter
Placerville, California

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:32:37 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: G&C Paxon

To Ken Burns, Bill Laird, Doug Liggett, & Ron Koehler -

Have any of you heard from Geo. Paxon regarding his archbar truck parts? I sent him a message asking to be included in the "Inform", I wonder if it dropped thru a crack. I suppose, more likely, he is struggling with the drawings, which always seeem to take longer than budgeted.
Thanks -
Howard Springer in WA.

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:08:34 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: G&C Paxon

Howard:I e-mailed George about two (2)weeks ago and still have heard nothing? Hope all is O.K. "
George;you out there!"

Doug Liggett

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:14:51 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Looking for George:

I to e-mailed George about two/three weeks ago asking him, how's he doing on the Arch Bar drawings. George! Let us know if everthing is O.K.!

Doug Ligett

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:29:35 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

To Nick Vance, Mike Decker, and Dave Hannah III - -
Thanks to you all for the info on the K-M Loco's.
Dave - I am pursuing the Strapac book as we speak. In my ignorance of how to go about it, I can't locate "Qstation.org" - Is that a website? You mention BNSF 9944 - was that a K-M? Or were you just using it as an example of a hydrostatic drive. If you built it, how did you get from the hydraulic motor to the axle - chain, something like a Tolomatic right angle gear box, or axle hung gearbox? I am thinking of the latter.
Mike - If they were a big torque converter drive system, I could understand that better - I thought I saw some sort of drive shaft angling down toward the trucks from below the center of the body - similar to the old Railroad Supply drive system.
I have designed some pretty big hydraulic systems using hydrostatic drives (the last one before I retired about 10 years ago used a Cat 3412 as a prime mover) but I have never found any overcenter hydraulic pumps capable of absorbing 1800 HP in a single unit - at least for any length of time. The one I mentioned had to use a combination of several variable pumps and several large fixed pumps to do the job at a reasonable pressure.
Vance - I have a daughter with a couple of college age kids in Houston. Do you think it would be possible for one of my grandsons onto the property to take some pictures? I barely know the town, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find Armco on Greens Rd.
Thanks again - Howard Springer

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:01:55 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: 2 1/2" Trucks

I just received my Trucks from Craig Adams in Oregon. They are arch bar trucks cast in steel. Very nice. Only took two weeks to get my order. Cost was $495 per set. I paid extra for powder coating. To see a picture look under "for sale" at the following web site.

http://home.att.net/~livesteam/
The E mail: innergroup@wave.net

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:03:53 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

I've been involved in/with several 15" gauge hydrostatic drive gas & diesel locos. Since I run locomotives for a living...started on 15" gauge, now standard gauge...I don't like the way hydrostatic's behave. The ones I've run don't "feel" like locomotives. A locomotive will "drift" (the train will just push the loco down the track with no retarding force from the loco) if you shut the throttle, there are places where I drift coal trains for miles, but the hydrostatic drives that I've run always act like dynamic brake if you just close the throttle without also doing something to the pump control. I'm sure "drift" can be designed in, but I've never seen/felt it on a small loco.

Also, I've run the 9944. The real one is just another EMD "chili" MAC (SD-70MAC built in Mexico) diesel-electric with Siemens AC traction.

The wide cab motors with the "desk" control stands are the most uncomfortable locomotives that I've ever run, and GE does even worse with the "desk" than EMD. If I wanted to sit with my legs trapped under a desk for 8,10,12 hours, I'd have hired out someplace as a Draftsmen :>) At least the NS, CNR and now UP, have finally realised that and have bought wide-cabs with regular AAR Standard control stands. Now....if the Santa Northern would follow suit, I'd be a happy camper up here on the Burlington :>) EMD already knows it...they told me that if that outfit I worked for would quit ordering those desks, they'd sure quit building them. He said that they were a mistake..."We should have never messed with the 'interface' ", End of soapbox.

Glad to be of help.

Mike Decker

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:31:29 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

Thanks to you all for the info on the K-M Loco's.
Dave - I am pursuing the Strapac book as we speak. In my ignorance of how to go about it, I can't locate "Qstation.org" - Is that a website? You mention BNSF 9944 - was that a K-M? Or were you just using it as an example of a hydrostatic drive. If you built it, how did you get from the hydraulic motor to the axle - chain, something like a Tolomatic right angle gear box, or axle hung gearbox? I am thinking of the latter. Mike - If they were a big torque converter drive system, I could understand that better -

Those are VOITH torqe converters.
Check out http://www.voithturbo.de/english/pal5008e/110.htm and feel your way around from there.

I thought I saw some sort of drive shaft angling down toward the trucks from below the center of the body - similar to the old Railroad Supply drive system.

The word "cardon" was mentioned.
It should have been Cardan, which is the German expression for a drive shaft with two universal joints and a center telescoping section (Heisler comes to mind).

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:54:17 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

Thanks, Arno:

That's what they looked like. My impression, at this late date, is that they used one convertor for each truck (bogie).

What is the conversion for Kilowatts of power to Horsepower? it seems to me that the K-M locos were either 3000 or 4000 HP.

Thanks for the spelling correction, it's been a long time since I used the word.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:43:53 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: G&C Paxon

not a peep.

Ron Koehler

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:19:06 EDT
From: radixauto@aol.com

Subject: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

(kilowatts)x1.3410 = hp

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:09:12 -0700
From: "Ken Burns"

Subject: Re: G&C Paxon

To Howard Springer,
First, a hearty thank you for allowing me to operate your loco at JTSRR this past February!! I have not recieved any info from George Paxon yet. I believe he will post a message to the 7-plus-NGM group when ready.

Ken Burns

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:28:48 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

That's what they looked like. My impression, at this late date, is that they used one convertor for each truck (bogie).

I don't doubt that, Mike.
They were a developement from the then DB (German Federal RR) V 200, which used 2,000 HP motors (I think Daimler-Benz owned Maybach), later 2,200 HP, with a B'B' wheel arrangement. That would mean two driven axles from one source in a bogie.

I think they used two of these motors on a joint frame for the US versions with a C'C' wheel arrangement.

What is the conversion for Kilowatts of power to Horsepower? it seems to me that the K-M locos were either 3000 or 4000 HP.

I thought it was kW x 1.36 = HP, but that would be for German HP (PS)

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:55:25 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Big Brute 2-8-2

Howard,
Are you going to bring that "Mike" of yours over for one of our meets this year. I checked with the president of SHAS (our landlords) and on site camping during the meets is OK.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 06:57:58 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

REPLY: 1 KW = 1.34 HP, or 746 W (0.746 KW) = 1HP Is the conversion. s/
Howard

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:51:55 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

Thanks for this last e-mailmessage picked up today. That 746W = I HP conversion facter could not be shaken out of this too-long-out-of-Injinearing-Skool head. And a question on this same discussion: Is a German HP larger 'cause the horses were bigger and stronger than the English?

Oh well; one more: Who can define the English Power Term; A "Duty"?

Cam Brown

You will all be delighted to learn that I am leaving y'all for a week or so.
Heading back N'oth.

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:33:49 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

I don't know if you noticed, but I did say German HP, which equals 736 watts.

Their legal measurment is Watts. Even a motorcar is rated in watts, not horsepower.

For the purpose of this thread, it stands to reason that the K-M (NOT Knudson-Morrisson) ML 4000 was rated in German HP for an equivalent of 2,944 kW.

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:27:38 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Krause - Maffei (Dave H,Mike D,Vance N.)

Bloody 'ell, Cam,

I couldn't even find it here http://www.entisoft.com/ESUnits/Units_D.HTM

Cheers,
Arno

Date: 28 Apr 2001 23:43:35 -0000
From: Arno Martens

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM

Krauss-Maffei 2nd US version

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:11:21 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM

That does not tell me why the .JPG shows with a "video" icon instead of a "image" on.
Also, there are Edit Delete Cut options in the RH margin.

Does any one have an explanation for that

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 04:47:38 EDT From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:00:03 -0700 From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks - Dgligg

Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:29:47 -0700 From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks - Dgligg

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:15:04 -0500 From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:46:23 +0200 From: Hannes Paling

Subject: Re: Re: A question of practical track standards

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:58:35 +0200 From: Hannes Paling

Subject: Re: Air brake system

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:59:46 -0500 From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Re: A question of practical track standards

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 19:54:36 -0000 From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: soldering end railings on 1/8 "scale Caboose

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:28:20 -0400 From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Re: A question of practical track standards

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:19:42 +1000 From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:22:11 +1000 From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks - Dgligg

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:27:58 +1000 From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:12:35 -0500 From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:57:09 -0700 From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:47:05 EDT From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:31:14 -0400 From: Tansj@sloan.wnyric.org

Subject: Re: soldering end railings on 1/8 "scale Caboose

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:03:19 +0100 From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: RE: Automatic Brakes

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:04:34 -0400 From: "Dale Russell"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:50:28 -0000 From: mike@accuratepower.com

Subject: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 11:54:59 -0000 From: "Joseph Betsko, Esq."

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:03:25 -0000 From: "Joseph Betsko"

Subject: Rail Questions

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:23:18 -0400 From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Rail Questions

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:47:23 EDT From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:56:27 -0700 From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Re: Digest Number 271

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:32:04 -0700 From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:48:18 -0700 From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:31:17 EDT From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:13:23 +0000

From: jsb.pennsy@worldnet.att.net

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:16:02 -0700 From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Rail Questions

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:33:08 -0000 From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Track Clearances

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:50:00 -0400 From: Robert Herronen

Subject: Re: Track Clearances

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:02:13 -0700 From: "Ken Burns"

Subject: Re: Arch Bar Trucks

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 03:21:50 -0000 From: mike@accuratepower.com

Subject: 2 good 2 me

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:42:04 -0700 From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:36:37 EDT From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:38:47 EDT From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:43:42 -0700 From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Re: WATO in US?

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:10:13 -0400 From: Paul GoodJohn

Subject: Re: Rail Questions

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 07:02:30 -0400 From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Rail Sample Scan was Rail Questions

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:22:37 -0700 From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Re: Re: Rail Sample Scan was Rail Questions

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 04:47:38 EDT
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:00:03 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:29:47 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:15:04 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:46:23 +0200
From: Hannes Paling

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:58:35 +0200
From: Hannes Paling

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:59:46 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 19:54:36 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:28:20 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:19:42 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:22:11 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:27:58 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:12:35 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:57:09 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:47:05 EDT
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:31:14 -0400
From: Tansj@sloan.wnyric.org

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:03:19 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:04:34 -0400
From: "Dale Russell"

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:50:28 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 11:54:59 -0000
From: "Joseph Betsko, Esq."

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:03:25 -0000
From: "Joseph Betsko"

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:23:18 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:47:23 EDT
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:56:27 -0700
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:32:04 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:48:18 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:31:17 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:16:02 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:33:08 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:50:00 -0400
From: Robert Herronen

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:02:13 -0700
From: "Ken Burns"

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 03:21:50 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:42:04 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:36:37 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:38:47 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:43:42 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:10:13 -0400
From: Paul GoodJohn

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 07:02:30 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:22:37 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:54:12 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:22:49 +1200
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:39:56 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:46:19 +0100
From: "Min Rail"

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:09:36 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:34:04 +0000
From: jsb.pennsy@worldnet.att.net

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:40:44 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:18:37 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:23:10 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:38:34 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:58:46 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:10:13 -0500
From: "Rick White"

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:11:29 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 08:39:48 -0000
From: "David Breaker"

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 07:24:17 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:59:24 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 16:35:02 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:28:05 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:35:10 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:56:27 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:36:50 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:01:32 -0700
From: "Dennis & Marie Weaver"

Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 07:58:29 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:07:24 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 06:36:52 -0400
From: locopart

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:18:45 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:22:15 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 14:37:10 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 18:12:30 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 19:44:18 -0700
From: "Daniel & Marianne"

Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 04:17:28 -0000
From: mike@accuratepower.com

Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:23:55 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:58:38 +0100
From: "Min Rail"

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:32 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:28:03 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"