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7-Plus-NGM Digest April 2002

Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 06:41:50 -0000
From: "drs_rr"

Subject: web page for Sandy Ridge and Clear Lake Railroad


My old link for there railroad doesn't work, checked using several search engines can't find a current working web page, anyone know if they have a new page? Sure miss not seeing the updates of there railroad.


Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:49:01 -0500
From: RichD

Subject: Re: web page for Sandy Ridge and Clear Lake Railroad?

mine is also kaput.

Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:02:45 -0000
From: "chef8905"

Subject: Valve gear.

Hi Everyone,

Can anyone out there help me with the following:- I am the editor of the clubs magazine (I am a member of a club here in the Netherlands) and I am looking for info about anyone who invented valve gears (Walschaert, Allen, Joy etc) that I can translate and use to do a series of article. Having searched the net myself, the only one I could find was Shay. I'm looking for info about the person, why they did it and what happend to them after they did it.

Does anyone have any ideas where I can look?

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:42:52 +1200
From: "John Clover"

Subject: Re: Valve gear.

Did you find the Alaskan site with working/animated diagrams of all/most of the gears ..sorry with computer re-builds I've lost it.

The original valve gear must have been designed by the builders of mine pumping engines in Cornwall UK.

Martin Evans in Manual of Model Steam Loco Const gives some clues on page 80,81 Also Hackworth p.92 etc ..ie source of diagrams.

Our Club library has some old books [manuals published at the beginning of 1900] about the start of railways I'll pop out there tomorrow and see what I can find for you.

John Clover
Dunedin New Zealand

Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:17:41 -0800
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: web page for Sandy Ridge and Clear Lake Railroad?

There was a notice a short time back that the SR&CL web site was down. They hoped to get one back on line in the near future. I hope so too. That's a beautiful railroad.

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:10:41 -0000
From: "emccamey.rm"

Subject: Re: Valve gear.

Try: http://www.alaska.net/~rmorris/als2.html

-ed mccamey-
Home Page

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:28:49 +1200
From: "John Clover"

Subject: Re: Re: Valve gear.

Thanks very much

John Clover
Dunedin New Zealand

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:54:54 -0000
From: "mkcpg"

Subject: Visit to USA

I would be grateful for suggestions of miniature or narrow gauge railways which my wife and I might be able to visit during a trip in the near future to Atlanta, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park and (possibly) adjacent states. Replies to secretary@perrygrove.com please. Thanks, Michael Crofts.


Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:58:16 -0800
From: "Pat@Sn3.org" >

Subject: Re: Visit to USA

Well, in Atlanta you are pretty much out of luck as there are only individual private tracks. There is a private club track in Canton, GA (north of Atlanta) that you could maybe look into visiting.

Your best bets for tracks are Mid-South Live Steamers in Columbia, TN and Central Carolina Live Steamers in Apex, NC.

Also in TN is the Chattanooga Society of Model Engineers.

All of these are private and call ahead only except for the Mid-South Live Steamers.

Pat Turner

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 14:29:47 -0500
From: RichD

Subject: Re: Visit to USA

Here are a few plces to visit:
The Mid South Live Steamers Spring meet is May 1-4th in Columbia, Tennessee:

The Central Carolina Live Steamers spring meet is April 25-27th in Apex North Carolina. Nr Raleigh. I will give directions if needed.
This is a club track on private land.

The Doe River Gorge project,
E.T&W.N.C. RR 3' NG

The Tennessee Valley RR Museum and railroad, Chattanooga, Tn

Regards, Rich Dean

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:04:34 -0500
From: "Grice, Dale (HT-EX)"

Subject: RE: Visit to USA

Hi Michael,

Tennessee Valley RR Museum does not have miniature or narrow gauge railways to my knowledge.

Also if you are in the Atlanta area, come by and visit us at The Southeastern Railway Museum.
However the only miniature or narrow gauge we have are a couple of MTC train sets which need major restoration and therefore are not on display as of yet.

Dale Grice
Operations Manager
Southeastern Railway Museum

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:34:47 +1200
From: "John Clover"

Subject: Re: Valve gear.

Sorry but I drew blank in my search ...
In The Steam Engine and other heat engines by J A Ewing MA LLD FRS M Inst CE published by the University Press of Cambridge in 1906 I found an interesting history of the steam engine from Hero of Alexandria through to the Charlotte Dundas [paddle steamer] the first steamboat and practical use of a steam engine.
John Clover
Dunedin New Zealand

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:31:38 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Visit to USA

Re: US visit; Adjacent states to GA, Florida subdivision.

Many tracks in Florida within a days drive south of Atlanta. Are you familiar with the Florida Live Steamers, an umbrella (brolly?) organization of club and private tracks.Mamy clustered anout Jacksonville in northeast close to Georgia border and some further south on the east coast near Orlando,

I'm on the west (Gulf) coast and it's a reasonable day drive down from Atlanta on the Interstate system to the Tampa Bay area. I shall plug the Largo Central Railroad, located surprisingly enough in Largo FL Central Park and a great grouping of private interconnected tracks called the ManateeFamily Lines in Parrish.

More details if this area proves attractive. We are snowbirds headed back north in a few weeks so don't count on me for anything except putting you in touch with helpful people if you can penetrate this far south.

Cam Brown

Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:29:58 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Visit to USA


how could you push going south, when ALS is only 1000 miles north!

Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 20:04:37 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: 2-1/2" scale corrigated iron - source

Jim -

Thank you for the suggestion. I will get ahold of Doughboy and see what they have to offer. However, if any one else out there has any suggestions I would still like to hear from them in case the Doughboy source doesn't work out...

Rudy van Wingen
JT&S RR Club & Museum

Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 20:08:15 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: DSP&P/C&S locomotive blow down valves.

Does anyone have photos or information as the the type of blowdown or "blowoff" valves that the late South Park or C&S locomotive used for cleaning the mud ring on the boiler?

I am thinking of producing one in 2-1/2" scale for live steam and would like to know what was most commonly used.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:31:57 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Visit to USA

Arno: I moonlight at Largo during the winter.Adirondack should conjures up thoughts of COLD. We welcome any new member who will model a 1 1/2", or better still, a 2 1/2" scale rotary.

Cam Brown

Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:20:20 -0800
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Updated Cyber Ride (Train Mountain)

Hi gang,

A lot of us are on many similar lists so if you receive this email several times, I apologize in advance. Anyhow, I've finally updated the Cyber Ride of Train Mountain. The old pictures were showing routes that no longer exist, going in directions we no longer go. The updated Cyber Ride has fresh pictures (this week) and is the start of a complete library of all the routes at Train Mountain (20 plus so far). Give it a try and as always comments or suggestions are always welcome (especially from this crew :o)


Russ Wood
Chiloquin, Oregon

Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:46:36 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Visit to USA


Moe Chaput, a member of the Richmond Hill LS here in Toronto, just started his own Live Steam building business. I understand his first order is a 7-1/4" working rotary snow plow.

His web page http://www.moeslocomotiveworks.com/index.html is still in the developing stage or, at least I just cannot access everything with NS 4.75.

How about Frank Hoppe pushing the rotary around ALS with his Falk.
Cheers, Arno

Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:04:44 -0800
From: "Pat@Sn3.org"

Subject: Re: Re: Visit to USA

Here is the link I think you were missing:

It is incorrect on some of his pages.

Pat Turner

Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:19:14 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Visit to USA YAK

Thanks Pat,

I posted his homepage only, as there is no picture, model or prototype, or even 'Artist's sketch' of the Rotary anywhere.

The problems I have are with his video's.
Just tried again, and I don't seem to have that problem any longer.
Video 2 shows him running his Mikado (RRSC components, I think) on the south curve of RHLS.

Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 01:50:04 -0000
From: "rsmeliterailer"

Subject: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Does anyone know where to get drawings of the Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes RR parlor car, the "Rangeley"? I would like to build one for 7.25" gauge. Thanks -

Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:28:08 -0600
From: "Brian Marriott"

Subject: RE: SR&RL parlor car drawings

SR&RL Parlor Car #9 drawings are on page 104/105 of "Slim Gauge Cars" [ISBN 911875-72-0], published by Carstens. Not sure if this is the "Rangeley", but the dimensioned drawings include: side; end; cross-section; and interior plan views; and there are two external and one internal photographs of the car.


Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:45:56 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

That's the Rangeley. It was called that early on but renumbered #9 later in service. Regards,
John Pilling
Milford, MA

Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 09:01:15 -0400
From: Rsmeliterailer@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Do you know where I can purchase this book from? Thank you.

Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 09:51:56 -0500
From: "Brian Marriott"

Subject: RE: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Try Carstens Publishers, Phil Harden Road, Fredon Township, P.O. Box 700, Newton, New Jersey 07860. Phone: 973-383 3355 [as of mid-1999]. They also publish the Railroad Model Craftsman magazine monthly. Otherwise try at one of the periodic railroad modelers shows/flea markets in your area.


Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 09:53:56 -0500
From: "Brian Marriott"

Subject: RE: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Thanks for the information. I will add a margin note to that effect in my book!


Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:39:08 -0700
From: "Channing Morse"

Subject: Re: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Contact Coronado Scale Models
they have many 2ft. drawings.cmorse33

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:40:11 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Visit to USA

Arno: Your note brought on, not a chuckle, but a bellylaugh. Anyone in the hobby who has not seen Frank Hoppe and his Falk has missed a treat. To give Frank his due, he has made it all the way around the ALS track. Several times. Not Walking. Behind his Falk.

Cam B

Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:24:00 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Visit to USA

I know, Cam, I've been there watching him.

I know Frank wouldn't be taking aback; he knows my wit, or lack thereof.

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:51:14 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

There is hobby shop in Kingston Mass that has quite a few scale drawing of all sorts of Maine Two Foot equipment....Sorry Can't remembetr the name of the shopp off hand....
Priced to sell....
Good Luck

Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 21:56:38 -0400
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

It is The Hobby Barn operated by Bob Werner. He has copies of the Crittenton drawings in 3/16" scale.
John Pilling
Milford, MA

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:04:36 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Thats the guy.....

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:05:17 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: SR&RL parlor car drawings

Are you a member of Waushakum Live Steamers?

Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 01:52:31 EDT
From: GengH@aol.com

Subject: Vacuum Brake actuators

I'm putting brakes on the tender trucks on a Fitchburg Northern. I'd like to put an actuator on each truck. Does anyone have an automotive part number for a suitable actuator, or know what ones out of a junk yard (from recent model cars) would be good?
George Hoke

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:44:06 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Kitsap Live Steamer Pixs

The Live Steam season has begun and Trevor Heath of the Kitsap Club has provided both pixs and QT movies for your enjoyment. Check these out, more will be added as the Live Steam season progresses.

Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest


Dan Morris

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:05:48 -0700
From: Bill Hudson

Subject: New with lots of questions.


Iım new to this group and am not sure how it works. Am I supposed to receive a whole page of daily digest or just an occasional posting? I signed up Tuesday and got one posting on my e-mail.

I am also new to steam but a long time scale model builder in 1/8 scale and 1/12th scale (miniatures for collectors). I wanted to start recording logging of the past in models. Hopefully a museum (big dreams). I did a model of a Dolbeer steam, vertical spool donkey several years ago. It made print in one of the first issues of Modeltec. It is also in Merv Johnsonıs book In Search of Donkeys. Wanted to make that working but knew nothing about steam then.

Also while measuring things I was privileged to have the Falk loco. Moved out of itıs shed for measuring and photographing way back in the early Œ70s. Would like to build a model of it now. I see plans of the Falk are now available and saw in the book, Logging With Steam by W.M.. Harris that he built a model of the little loco. Harris mentioned that castings were available from Power Model Supply Co. I have had problems contacting them and have since learned they suffered a disaster and the owner perished. Can any one verify that for me? Also does any one know where I can find a set of castings for the Falk?


Bill Hudson
Eugene, Oregon

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:30:24 -0500
From: "Ronald Koehler"

Subject: Re: New with lots of questions.

Hi and welcome,

to answer some of your questions. It is true that power model supply suffered a severe fire and loss. They were the only ones to sell the castings for the falk. I do know that the owners son said that some of the patterns they owned survived but I do no know which ones. They must have been in a separate bldg as not much survived the fire. I too have tried to contact the owners son with no success. Maybe you can check the live steam magazines and websites as they list items for sale. I have not seen a falk, however. If you are lucky, maybe someone out there has a set they would be willing to part with.

Ron Koehler

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:36:08 -0700
From: Bill Hudson

Subject: Re: New with lots of questions.

Thanks Ron,

Am debatin g about doing the loco or do the vert spool donkey as my first steam attempt. I am not opposed to fabricating the whole thing, would enjoythe chalange but castings would sure help get going faster.

Bill Hudson

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:54:49 -0400
From: "Norman S. Briskman"

Subject: Re: New with lots of questions


Bill Harris did a series on the donkey engine. It's a scaled down copy of one at Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco He later did a flat car and rig to accommodate the donkey.


Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:37:49 -0700
From: Bill Hudson

Subject: Re: New with lots of questions.

Thanks for the reply Norman,

A friend loaned me a copy of that book. My mouth waters on each page. Many years ago I measured a Dolbeer (second patent date April 1882) verticle spool donkey at the North Bend, Oregon Historical Museum. i built a very detailed 1/8 scale model of it. If I say so myself it came out very nice but is not operational. I knew ablsolutely nothing about steam then. Not much more now but do have minimum equipment and am braver now. Also have access to a lot of people with steam knowledge. I joined teh Emerald Valey model Engineers club and have a good support force on what ever I might try now.

Note: I notice some of my typed characters come out not as typed. It must be in the translation from my puter.

Thanks to all who have responded to my questions.

Bill Hudson
Eugene, Oregon

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:25:52 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Photo/diagram Help


My neice teaches science and has asked me for a photo/diagram of how a steam locomotive works. Simple enough, but I can't seem to find one. The last time I saw something like this was at the Sacramento, CA Museum. Can anyone point me to a web site that has a photo/diagram of a steam locomotive. Seems I saw one on a club web site but I can't find it now.


Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A. >

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:17:45 -0400
From: RichD

Subject: Re: Photo/diagram Help

Try these: found on google

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:44:04 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Photo/diagram Help

Thank you gentlemen for your assistance.

Another site I found was at http://howstuffworks.lycoszone.com/steam1.htm

Jim Hoback Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:18:22 -0000
From: "nz24jc"

Subject: Re: Photo/diagram Help

At our Model Eng Club we have a cut away model of pacific running gear and cyclinder with working Walchearts gear. If you cannot get a diagram from anyone I could photograph the model for you ... contact off list ...johnclover@hyper.net.nz

Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:17:14 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Re: Photo/diagram Help


I appreciate your offer but I believe the sites I sent along have done the job.


Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:54:42 +1200
From: Grant Alexander
Subject: Re: Re: Photo/diagram Help

Is this any good, cute graphics...


Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:49:54 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Visit to USA YAK

I messed up. Can't find the mwssage nor the messanger, who was to make the trip to USA to Atlanta. I was asked to supply contacts for Florida Live Steam tracks. I had recommende Largo Central near Tampa ( try John Beard, Pres. and wife Sandy: JBEARD7822@aol.com) and the Manatee Family Lines in Parrish just south of Tampa (try Pete@Newcombe.com

There are scads of other Florida tracks, some closer to the Georgia border than these two which are the ones I am personnally familiar with. If you do get down here a good contact for other visits to suit whatever your itineray is, would be Tom Keenan Pres. of the Florida Live Steamers: tkeenen@worldnet.att.net.

If you do invade the north, call and I shall get you to the Adirondack LS near Saratoga Springs, NY.

Good fortune on your visit.

Cam Brown

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:27:51 -0400
From: "Casy Jones"

Subject: (unknown)

Hi All,

How many of you folks are coming to the NAMES expo this weekend in Southgate, Michigan? I look forward to meeting any of you who show up.I will be with the SuperScale people.

See you there, Jim Gould, Ann Arbor, MI

Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:03:02 EDT
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: (unknown)

Hi Jim:
Sorry I can't make the NAMES, it's a long trip from AZ but would love to get there someday. Are you still making 1.5" trolley equipment. I once asked for a list, but we got sidetracked somewhere.
Don Bauer

Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:41:50 -0700
From: Greg & Susan Robinson



Red Bluff, CA: Robinson & Associates, publisher of the Grand Scales Quarterly, the premier publication for enthusiasts of large scale railroading, is proud to announce the acquisition and redesign of the 7+ RAILROADER magazine.
The 7+ RAILROADER, which is entering its eleventh year of publication, features articles, plans, news, photos and information for people interested in live steam railroading (7" gauge and larger). Published quarterly, the magazine provides a forum for members of this smaller community of railroad enthusiasts to share ideas, dream, plans, photos and helpful technical information. The 7+ RAILROADER strives to be a valuable member of the community of publications which serve the live steam railroad hobby. Emphasizing 7 1/2", 7 1/4" and larger gauge trains, this magazine endeavors to provide the hobbiest with news and information in an educational and entertaining manner.
Robinson & Associates has completely redesigned the publication. Previously it had been published as a black and white tabloid. With the winter issue, it became an 8 1/4 x 10 3/4 magazine format with a new paper stock. New logos and art work are included, as well as additional photography and larger use of color. New columns have also been introduced.
With off-the-shelf products and ready-to-run equipment from a variety of manufacturers, the riding railways hobby is opening up to a whole new segment of railfans. Being a master mechanic and owning a complete machine shop is no longer necessary to enjoy this fun "sport".
Those interested in learning more about the 7+ RAILROADER, may contact the publisher at 530-527-0141 or via e-mail at mainline@sunset.net. Or on the web: www.7plusrailroader.com

The Grand Scales Quarterly
Robinson & Associates

P.O. Box 8953,
Red Bluff,
CA 96080 USA
fax 530-527-0420

Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:49:09 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: (Fwd) You gotta'see this ...

Hello all,

I got this information from my good friend Woody. It's not 7plus, but seems to be really interesting:

You gotta'see this ...

The Niles Monorail

Looks like fun and only takes half as much track ...



Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:54:32 -0000
From: "gaflyer_4j6"

Subject: newbie wants to build live steam

I would like to build a live model of the prototype, a 24 gauge Crown Metal Works 4-4-0 (I grew up close to). While Mr. Williams still supports the old Crown engines, he wrote me that he does not release drawings, which only makes sense to me too.
Does anyone know where I may get some drawings or instructions to build an American locomotive, Rogers-like 440? One book (or reprint) I seek is:
"Colburn, Zerah. Locomotive Engineering and the Mechanism of Railways. 2 vols. London and Glasgow, 1872.
This work was nearly complete in 1864 but was not published until after the author's death. Only one American locomotive, Rogers 4-4-0, is illustratd by a full set of drawings in this large work, but the history offsets this omission in large part. It is an invaluable reference."
I noticed "Walt Disney's Lily Belle #173 Limited Edition" is being advertised as being produced from orginal drawings. While I assume this is an electric model, are the drawings available for the live steam original?