7+-NGM-logo The

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:13:11 -0000
From: "chevwilliam" >

Subject: Foundry information.

Perhaps the following will be of help:
FOUNDRY TECHNOLOGY by P. R. BeeleyPublished by Newnes-Butterworths of London, Boston, Sydney, Wellington, Durban, and Toronto, 1972, 1979. The Boston address is Butterworth (Publishers) Inc., 19 Cummings Park, Woburn, Mass. 01801. The identification number is "ISBN 0 408 70348 2". My copy was printed and bound in England at The Camelot Press Ltd., Southampton.
From the jacket fly:
"Dr. Beeley was a foundry manager before he became a senior lecturer in metallurgy. he is thus ideally equipped to write this book, which is the study of the basic prinipals of metal founding and their application in the producing and user industries. It brings together basic metal casting phenomena, foundry techniques, and product characteristics in a single work of reference.
Orthodox and specialised casting processes, and both ferrous and non-ferrous founding are considered on a comparaative basis, and the place of castings in design is critically examined and related to other products.
The emphasis is the book is on the industrial aspect, but techniques are examined in the light of ideas emerging from modern research. Solidification is treated from the viewpoints of both structure and feeding: the quantitive approach to the latter topic is examined.
The book was originally conceived as a test and work of reference for use in universities and other branches of higher education and for managerial and technical staff in the industry, but it is hoped that it will be useful to all metallurgists and foundrymen with an interest in the scientific background o fthe subject. A particualr aim is to assist engineers and engineering studients in appreciating the role of castings in design and materials selection."

Good luck in your research.
Best Regards,
William J. Stewart.

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:21:29 -0000
From: "mosquitojunction"

Subject: TO: Alan Cupp

Join the Yahoo group Casting Hobby. Loads of info and fun.
7-Plus-NGM Digest April 2004

Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:02:34 -0000
From: FrolinMarek@att.net

Subject: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Hi Folks,

Was looking though old pictures in the Files and Photos area, and found a section on Dave Skagen's, Sandy River equipment.

Wondering if there is a web-site or any fresh, new pictures anywhere on this great looking Two Foot equipment?

And also any other similar railroads, doing much larger Two Foot or 30-inch Gauge models, on the common 7.5" (or 7.25") gauge track system?


Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:04:44 -0000
From: FrolinMarek@att.net

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

FYI/PS: I know about the SR&CL Rlwy.


Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:31:21 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

there seems to be a lot of this in the UK. not as much in the US so far but i think this is changing. some stuff to look at.
http://www.steamtrain.co.uk/ they have a Sandy river

fred v

Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:55:25 -0800
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: RE: Digest Number 969

I have photo's of the Sandy River and the Shay.

There is also a photo on the web site of a Sandy River that runs on the Weston Park Railway in England (7.25").

That photo can be found on the "Ladies of Live Steam" page on www.livesteaming.com with Charlotte Rogers driving.

Dave Skagen is currently building a K36 for a Customer in Pennsylvania.


Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:02:04 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Well, I guess I should fess up: When I was less aged, I started a two foot engine that was to have been one of the early Portland 0-4-4T Forneys.
Corresponded with a buch of people who had immersed themselves into Maxi #7 of the Bridgton and Saco River. Forgive for not remembering the name of the chap in Toronto who had made the Maxi, Dave Rohmer (did I get that correct?) now at Roll Models I'm told who has a Portland early 0-4-4T, and a chap in South Africa, who had done an interesting Maxi Had some videos of the Toronto and South African engines but the chap who I had loaned them to up and died and the estate "lost" them.

For what it may be worth a couple of comments. These are BIG engines as some of our correspondence has indicated. The O. African engine had made an interesting compromise. As I recall the club track was a dog bone with rather tight curves. So, with one exception (the builder surcumbed to the British proclivity of having brass steam domes) this engine turned out weel. What one was looking at, though you couldn't tell, was a 2-4-0. The T was a "bobber" four wheel tender coupled tightly to the engine so it could get about the curves.

What's next is what I recall Dave Rohmer telling about the Portland 0-4-4T almost a standard early two footer power. The tires on the drivers kept wearing out ( probably wearing out the track as well) and after replacing four sets of tires, Dave "Masonized" the engine pivoting the frame and drive mechanism under the boiler.

This was what was going to be done on the engine that never got out of my head. Could Dave or Rudy or any of the west coast bretheren confirm this?

Cam Brown

Two foot Forever!

PS. Since no one has mentioned this before, remember the lil' A mericans that Baldwin made for the Pennsylvania Mt. Gretna Narrow Gauge. Chap in Belgium or France built a model of this that was illustrated in Live Steam. The proper name of the builder and date of the Magazine article is in my stuff in the north. As snow is due in Albany tomorrow, we hesitate to leave the south until Mother Nature decides to stay up there in better weather.

Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:15:01 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Brown Again: SR&RL #24 was my second favorite two foot engine to B&SR #7.
Nice lines in a 2-6-2 configuration. I'd forgotten about Dave Skagins models.
Ther were some suppliers on this other east, neglected, coast who sold #24 parts and casting, Street in North Carolina and my mind tells me Pine Tree Plantation in New Jersey, which line may have been picked up by a chap, sounds like Schiavo.

There is supposed to be a semifinished #24 in Ft. Myer Florida.

For what it is worth this would be a delightful engine to model. And BIG GER. Blind flanges on the middle drivers. To save some trouble, check out the 2-6-0 Moguls on the Sandy River. Sales Pitch: Look at Old Star that was shipped up to Maine from a never completed two foot line in North Carolina. Picture of this one in the Baldwin Built book.

Cam Brown

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:50:13 -0000
From: "mosquitojunction"

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Cam, the #24 castings were available from Mercer Products in New Jersey, and the guys name was Dave Sclavi. He is now out of buss.-- THANK GOD-- Take your money and run.... Anyway for those interested, we here in Florida, the Mosquito Junction Railroad, do run 2.5" and 3.75 in Narrow gauge.

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 04:45:43 EDT
From: WrightRobertT@aol.com

Subject: Whaleback tenders

Does anyone have a source for prints of the N. G. locomotives that ran on the S.P. out in the Southwest that burned oil and had the hallmark whaleback tenders?

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:59:54 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

that engine showed up at the Ridge Club track in feb. on a trailer for show-n-tell. it is a great looking engine. i didn't get to talk to the owner but heard he has been working on it for 10 years or so. looks like all that's left is the plumbing.
fred v

Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:20:00 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Fred: You have me throughly confused when you spoke about the model of SR&RL #24 showing up at Ridge LS for show and tell.

From an earlier posting of yours I took you to be a Brit from my Nanna's Ouldie Country. Where you at?

Cam Brown

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:41:42 EDT
From: GengH@aol.com

Subject: Re: Dave Skagen's Sandy River #24

Attached are some photos of Skagens locomotive. It's big and it's a beautiful job.
On another note: I have the complete set of Live Steam magazine with the Lucky 7 plans and articles by Don Young and i'm willing to sell them.
George Hoke

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:48:51 -0000
From: FrolinMarek@att.net

Subject: Re: Dave Skagen's Sandy River #24

Hi George,

Attachments don't save once online. Would you consider uploading them to the Photo's area or Files, in a new section of his railroad or engine? (or a new sub-section under the existing one with his stuff)


Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:56:46 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

sorry for the confusion. i live in Pensacola, Fl. i visited England last year and have mentioned things i saw there but only on vacation.
fred v

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:41:16 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Fred: Who is Toni?

I didn't get about much this year. For one reason or another, we acted as if out feet were sent in St. Pete concrete. Got to Larry Smith's twice over in Parrish.

Pensacola. Is that the lace with an old battleship out in the bay that the navy used - uses - for target practice? Back to two foot.

Have you gotten to the Largo Central lately? That is where I get my railroad fix while down here. Largo had a good, well attended, meet a week or so ago. I play conductor. I tell people that, except for the NYC badge on the hat (inherited from favorite Uncle Art), I am a complete phoney.

Found a good web site this morning on Links down from the WW&F siter, this one run by Cynthia Longo. Gives a lot of friendly chatter from the addictive two foot volunteer point of view.

Write when the spirit moves.

Cam Brown

Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:09:09 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

toni is my lovely wife of 15 years. she goes to all the meets with me and takes her hobby stuff to play with while i do the trains.

we haven't been to Largo as our camper isn't good on battery alone. Larry Smith's is a nice place to run. if you were there in Feb. i have the green Hunslet style engine "IRIS".

up my way there is Wales West. this is a 2ft. ga. and 7.5" ga. track with an RV campground. i'm the volunteer building the 7+ ga. track. see: www.waleswest.com.

the old battleship is really there for pleasure boats to run into. it get hit several times a year.
fred v

Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:57:03 -0000
From: "mosquitojunction"

Subject: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Cam, The american engine you refer to, was built in France by Jean Villette,and it was on the cover of Live Steam/ March 91. He is also the fellow and a good friend of mine, that built the engine we are doing on Narrow Gauge Builders.
P.S. Where are you located at??

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:35:18 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Two Foot gauge on 7.5" track

Cam is now located about 1.33 feet in front of a computer screen located in St. Petersburg, FL. Local affiliation here is with the Largo Central RR in Largo Central Park. Nice run. Open to public first full weekend of every month. NHRS also in Largo once a month.

Official residence in (near) Albany, N.Y. where there is a seperate moniter.
Affiliation there is with the Adirondack Live Steamers, private club with no public run days, lost in the woods outside of Saratoga Springs. Any LS or similarly railroad afflicted [erson welcomed. Can't find last newsletter to here post days of spring meet - eary June methinks. Since we never got to Maine last year for what seemed like good and sufficient reasons, resolved to make it this year, especially to the WW&F. I've agreed to present a program at the Bridgton (Maine) Historical Society on the B&H/B&SR if a agreeable date can be reached, This mainly as I am one of the few still vertical who even remotely can claim they "worked" on the line. (Kid volunteer in 1941.)

Better stop. The late Don Marshall said:" Cam, you write the way you talk."
Once started, hard to stop.

Cam Brown

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:45:13 -0000
From: "Dennis OBerry"

Subject: E&J Winter and Lucky 7 Parts

I contacted Ed Winter at the turn of the century regarding the B&H 7 parts and he replied on 12/22/00.

"It is 10 years since we supplied the last order for the Mini Lucky 7 castings so I can only gues at their present value, say about Aus $1064.oo Flame Cut steel items (8 parts) would be about Aus$432.00.

Likewise the last set of Maxi Lucky 7 castings supplied was 9 years ago so I would estimate a current set of listed castings would cost $Aus$3701.00. The set of flame cut steel items (49 items) would be about Aus$1796.00."

I got a set of Don Young's drawings from a fan who had them before Reeves 2000 started up and before I knew of E&J Winter. They were $90.00 and Don Young was an excellent draughtsman,the abridged version of Young's Live Steam Lucky 7 Articles from Power Models arrived the same day of that tragic fire.

Maxi 7 would make a hefty model.

Denis O'Berry

Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:57:08 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Lucky Seven

There has been in the last few months some patterns and such showing up on Ebay that were Power Model Supply items, I don't know who it was selling them. It started just after the first of the year and haven't seen anymore in the last two or three weeks. It may be that someone had off site some patterns and such if one could figure out who.
Boyd Butler.

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:28:43 -0500
From: Ned Guyette

Subject: Jack Buckler's Sweet William

I would like to hear from any one who has built or is building a Sweet William- the 71/4 inch gauge version of his Bagnall inspired Sweet Pea.

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:33:34 +0100
From: "David Holland"

Subject: Re: Jack Buckler's Sweet William

Hi Ned,

I've built two Sweet Williams, finished in 2000. Both run beautifully and will pull a house down. Any help I can offer?

David Holland.
Nr Kettering. UK

p.s. Away for a week from tomorrow so won't be replying until 25th

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:39 EDT
From: WrightRobertT@aol.com

Subject: Shay-Climax or Heisler?

Can anyone tell me which of the geared locomotives would be the best for the 1st locomotive to start on?
I'm referring to the Kozo Hiraoka series.

Any Help Please??

Rob Wright

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 08:00:23 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler?


The three are about equal in complexity I believe. The Climax has tougher gears to make although there may be some supplier for these gears among our fellow hobbyists. Otherwise, I believe the three are equally difficult to build.

If you are looking for a beginner project for a logging type loco, perhaps the Bob Maynard designed Cli-Shay would meet your needs. It is a simplified version of the really early Shay and uses a launch style engine and a water tube copper boiler. It is not completely prototypical but it is a good representation of the logging loco and would be easier to build.


James Hoback
Sonora, California

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:27:17 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler?

As silly as it sounds perhaps the shay....
as it seems the 2 latter locomotives books seem to reference the first.

Best Regards

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:11:52 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: Photo's from Canada and India

Photo's from the BCSME Easter meet in Canada and an amazing series showing a 5" 0-6-0 "Simplex" built in India are at



Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:17:40 -0400
From: Ronald Thibault

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler


Who sells the plans?

Ron Thibault
Warrenville, SC USA

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:25:59 -0400
From: Ronald Thibault

Subject: Has the Livestearmers List Died?

I've stopped getting any messages from the Livesteamers list. Is it still running?
Ron Thibault
Warrenville, SC USA

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:08:11 -0500
From: "Curtis Hustace"

Subject: Re: Has the Livestearmers List Died?

Don't know . . . didn't notice until you said something!


Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:23:26 -0600
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler?

I would say the Shay. It was the first of the Hiraoka engine books.

If you need some help making gears let me know.

My selection of the Shay is based on bias. See my web page for information on my 3" scale 15" or 7 1/2" gauge project and forth comming drawings. www.trainweb.org/riverview


Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:26:55 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler?


The construction series for the Cli-Shay began in about 1979 or '80 in Live Steam magazine. I would have to look it up. Perhaps you have a local "old fart" friend like me who would have the back issues. I don't recall if Live Steam offers any plan packets of the Cli-Shay series. Check their web site.


Sonora, California

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:23:19 -0400
From: Ronald Thibault

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler


Actually, I guess that local "old fart" friend :-) I have the complete run of Livesteam, but have not gotten through all of them! I'll look it up. Thanks!

Ron Thibault
Warrenville, SC USA

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:09:00 -0000
From: "Andrew"

Subject: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler?

Hi Chuck,

Just been to your page with the Shaw drawings... very nice indeed. But now a few questions... what program do you use to create the 3D's? Does it also spit out 2D engineering drawings? Is it expensive (I would rather use my money for my locomotive projects etc.)

Look forward to seeing more drawings / progress on you loco.


Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:16:23 -0600
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: Re: Re: Shay-Climax or Heisler?

The program is Pro/engineer 2000i, you can get a student version on ebay for under $10 The full version is about $900. The version 2000i is now a bit old but hat is what I have been using since then. The student version is fairly complete but has install problems on Windows versions older than NT, 2000 or XP. It prints a stucent version message on all outputs. This program has a steep learning curve but is REALLY NEAT when you learn how to use it.

Attached is a 2D drawing generated by the program. This is a .JPG version and not intended to be completely readable.

My plan is to finish the construction of engine #1 and sell the 30+ pages of drawings in "D" size along with assembly notes and photos. I plan to post the unusable 2D drawings and 3D views to give you a good idea of the design.

Will be updating the web page with more information as I build the the Shay. I now have the wheels and axles finished and am starting on the foundary for grey iron castings, truck parts and boiler. I am about 70 hours into the build of "Riverview Shay #1".

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:22:08 -0700
From: Greg Robinson
Subject: Photos and British Tour Update (enjoyable advertisement)

Hello All,

Three dozen previously unpublished photos have been added to our Tour page --it takes a while to load. These shots include some of the best and most famous miniature railways in the world, and they demonstrate the atmosphere and opportunities afforded to guests of a GSQ Tour (such as superb scenery, cab rides, shop tours, getting to run engines you've read about for years, etc., etc.). Also on this page you may download the detailed articles that describe the previous UK Tour. http://grandscales.com/tour2004/index.html

Already, half of the available seats for the 2004 Tour are spoken for.
They are filling even faster than we hoped, but there is still room.
After the articles about the 2002 Tour were published, we daily heard the comment, "Oh, I wish I had gone."

It will be several years, if ever, that a similar tour is conducted again. We look forward to meeting you this September in London as you embark on a journey you'll cherish for the rest or your life.

All the Best,
Greg Robinson
Editor / Tour Guide

The Grand Scales Quarterly
Robinson & Associates
P.O. Box 8953,
Red Bluff, CA 96080
fax 530-527-0420
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:02:25 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza
Subject: Re: Foundry report/info needed

Hi all,

A member of the EBT list is in need of help. I know there are lots of people out there who can assist him in his research. If you are able to help his address is in the header.

kind regards
Alan Cupp wrote:

I am in my final semester of college for this year and I have to write a term paper/report.
The topic is metalworking or something having to do with that.
I am going to do foundry work and the process of casting parts like EBT once did.
What I need is a good online recourse that has a lot of information on this process, how it is done, history, etc.
I figured Id pick this because it pertains to EBT and hopefully wonât be as bad.
So if you know of any good sites or books on this topic please let me know.

Thanks in advance,

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:00:24 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Jim Nickoll/Quincy & Torch Lake

I am trying to make contact with JIM Nickoll who wrote an article and made drawings of the Q&TL Ore Car in the March 1975 NG&SL Gazette. I have written to Bob Brown at the Gazette and he has lost contact with Jim and no longer has the original drawings.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:30:29 -0600
From: "Van O. Austin"

Subject: Re: Jim Nickoll/Quincy & Torch Lake

For what it is worth, Google syd that his stuff was in FINELINES November 1974, Vol 11. Gopogle also says that FINELINES had an allQ&TL issue sometime in 1966.
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:37:23 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"
Subject: Re: Jim Nickoll/Quincy & Torch Lake

Van -

Thanks, but I was able to contact Jim through information received from one of the members of the NarrowGuageBuilders Group. Turns out Jim still has the drawings and has agreed to get copies to me soon.


Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:35:58 -0600
From: "Van O. Austin"
Subject: Re: Re: Jim Nickoll/Quincy & Torch Lake

If possible, I certainly would like to see the drawins. I glad and impressed that you found him.

Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:16:30 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: Jim Nickoll/Quincy & Torch Lake

Van -

Finding him was a cinch with the help of members of this and other groups; this is really a wonderful tool.

I would be glad to let you look as the drawings, but I am sure that Mr. Nickoll still considers them to be his property and I would not be able to share copies withoug his permission.

When I get the copies from him I will ask him if he will allow me to share copies; if I decide to sell a kit I would need to furnish copies with those so I will have to work this out with him.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:31:07 -0000
From: "southern28016"

Subject: 2-1/2" C&S Domes


Can anyone tell me where I might find dome castings that closely resemble the domes on the C&S 22? I would like to get castings if at all possible.



Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:16:03 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: 2-1/2" C&S Domes

Cam -

Como Roundhouse Products had the castings you need. For mor information and photos contact me offline.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products