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7-Plus-NGM Digest June 2001

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:42:03 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Hello, Does anyone know.....



Hi group,
I sent an email about the Maxitrak Li'l Jo 2-4-0 w/ tender machined kit to the list asking for anyone's experiences about this loco.
I guess no one knows anything about them, since I have not received a response.
Does anyone know anything about this loco, steaming characteristics, durability, ease of steaming up, firing, etc.?
It is hard to make a decision about this purchase with no info.
I would appreciate any comments.
Thank you,
Barry Bridges

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:30:43 EDT
From: plumdalejunction@aol.com

Subject: MAXITRAK L'IL JOE



Dear Barry,

I suggest you send a message to Adrian Munns who is the Chairman of the Maxitrak Owner's Club. He can probably put you in contact with one or more members who already own or operate one of these locomotives. You can contact him via the club's website which is: http://www.lmha.co.uk/moc/.

Brian Critchley

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:06:36 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: Hello, Does anyone know.....



Bill
One thing to keep in mind is the size. Even though called 21/2" scale, the Lil Jo specs are 15" wide, 211/2" high and 38" long. ( I imagine t.he length is without the tender?). You may want to compare that with the size of your Roll Model electric.
and the rest of your cars to see how it would look. A narrow gauge engine is not necessarily a large engine.I'd doublecheck the size first to see if it is what you want.

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:27:54 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: MAXITRAK L'IL JOE



Barry, there is only one person I know of who recently placed an order for a Lil Joe here in the states. I had inquired about one 2 years ago. There are a couple of folks with Maxitrak engines down in Florida and they have a website...
http://www.fls.org.jm/users/fls/mail/locomod.html
http://www.fls.org.jm/users/fls/maxitrak/pearl.html

My opinion of the locomotive is this. It is based on a prototype of a plantation engine only in 2.5" scale. It is 15" wide and 38" long and 21.5" tall. It weighs in at 170 pounds less tender. It will handle sharp radius curves on a minimum radius of 10'. It really depends on what you are looking for in a live steam locomotive. I think the Lil Joe would make a good starter based on price and time/skills needed to build. Performance based on weight may be a bit overstated, and that was my concern. I want to haul passengers behind my loco, and from experience I needed a larger engine if I am to carry more that 2-3 persons.

Regards,
Jeff Badger
http://soquelshortlinerr.homestead.com/spc1.html

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:35:34 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: 110 Volt Motors



Hi all,
I have just acquired a squirrel cage style blower for the cooking facilities at shas. It is powered by a 110 volt a/c motor. Can I use a dimmer switch to slow the thing down? I have the funny idea that there will be more air movement than I need, to remove all the hot air. Down Russell I'm not really leading with my chin. :o)

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:12:19 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: MAXITRAK L'IL JOE



Brian,
Now that is a great idea.
I will try the MOC asap
Thank you, thank you, thank you..........
Barry

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:21:01 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: My maxitrak decision...



Jeff,
Thanks for the info, I will contact the group in Florida.
I did wonder about the tractive effort, given the weight to pulling power ratio.
I appreciate all comments, it's hard to make a decision sight unseen.

Barry

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 02:23:17 -0000
From: smallhand27@yahoo.com

Subject: From measured drawing to scale



While at a "SCRAP" (Metal machining interest group)meeting. I had a discussion with a member on the calculations necessary to reduce a full size drawing of a locomotive to scale. My method has been to multiply the full size measuements by the scale number (1.5", 2.5", 3").
Now I'm informed that the correct method is to divide the scale gauge (7.5") by the full size wheel gauge (42") to get the scale inch times 12 to get the scale feet.
This is where you pro's come in, what is the correct formula?

Raymond Hill

Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 19:58:07 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: From measured drawing to scale



You got it now. Standard gauge is 56.5". Other sizes are 42", 36", 30", 24", 15", and meter gauge (39.37").... Just divide the track width you want to build to (7 1/2", 7 1/4". 5". 4 3/4", etc by the track width the prototype was made to and you have it. That gives you the decimal percentage that you have to use to reduce the prototype to the equavalent smaller scale size.

7.5/42 = 0.17857143. Then if you have a wheel that is 6 feet in diameter in the prototype, you multiply 6 feet times 0.17857143 to get 1.07143 feet for the model. That is close enough to 12 7/8" (12.875 vs 12.8571) for planning purposes.

Of course if you really want to make a steam locomotive, there are some things that you can and can't do in scaling. The old addage is that you can't scale nature. So boiler internals can't be scaled and bearing sizes, etc. Usually, scaling on locomotives is limited to the visual appearance and the works are practical so that the thing runs when finished.

JerryK

Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:10:58 EDT
From: GMEYER6103@AOL.Com

Subject: Re: From measured drawing to scale



Hello Raymond, If you want a model to run on 7.5 inch gauge track and the prototype operated on 42 inch gauge track, to have a scale model, you have to build it to a larger scale. In this case you would divide 7.5 by 42 (the number of inches that the prototype's gauge was in Los Angeles) and you then know how much one inch would be in the scale that you need to build the model. 7.5 divided by 42 =1785714 or one scale inch. To figure what one foot is multiply .1785814 x 12 = 2.1428568 or one scale foot for a model of a 42 inch gauge model that you want to operate on 7.5 inch gauge track. People, I explained this to him earlier at "Scrap" but I guess he didn't believe me or didn't understand.
Take care Ray! .
Gary Meyer

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 00:52:30 EDT
From: Smallhand@aol.com

Subject: Re: From measured drawing to scale



Gary, It's not that I didn't beleive you or understand your explanation. On the contrary, since the way I explained to you that I was "scaling" my train came from this sight, I was just testing your explaination, to get a consensus. What do you do in the case of my present drawing, where there is no track gauge given?

Ray

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:14:07 -0000
From: minrail@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: Titfield Thunderbolt



I have discovered that this firm supplies multiformat video players

http://www.dvdoverseas.com/

Adrian

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:03:04 EDT
From: Smallhand@aol.com

Subject: Re: From measured drawing to scale



Thanks for the explanation Jerry. Next question, how does this method equate to different scales (1.5, 2.5, 3.75)?

Raymond Hill

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 02:38:42 EDT
From: GMEYER6103@AOL.Com

Subject: Re: From measured drawing to scale



Hello Raymond, I will try to answer your questions.
1.5 inch scale is considered the scale for standard gauge on 7.5 inch gauge track in much of North America, although it actually scales out to be five foot gauge (7.5 divided by .125 = 60 scale inches). Standard gauge is 56.5 inches so if you multiply .125, times 56.5 you will get what would be the correct gauge in 1.5 inch scale which is 7.0625 or 7 1/16 inch gauge. Many years ago when they began building 1.5 inch scale live steam locomotives, someone decided to use a gauge of 7.5 inches, which is the equivalent of five foot gauge. Since that time live steamers and large scale model railroaders have continued to build their 1.5 scale models to that gauge. There are some live steamers in the Northeast that use a gauge of 7 1/4 which is closer to being correct and only one and a half scale inches to wide. A closer scale for 7.5 inch gauge is 1.6 inches. If you divide 1.6 by 12 you get .1333333 which is one scale inch in 1.6 inch scale. If you multiply one scale inch times 56.5 (the standard gauge) .1333333 x 56.5 you get an answer of 7.533 which is within .033 of being right on for 7.5 inch gauge. Some people like to build models of narrow gauge equipment. The most popular models are of 2 foot gauge that was used in the state of Maine, and three foot gauge that was used in many of the states, and especially in the state of Colorado. If a person wants to build a narrow gauge model to operate on 7.5 inch gauge track, they have to divide 7.5 by the gauge of the model that is to be operated on it. In the case of 3 foot gauge you would divide 7.5 by 3 since you want 7.5 inch gauge to represent three foot gauge for your model. If you divide 7.5 by 3 you find that your scale for a three foot gauge model will be 2.5 inch = one scale foot. In the case of 2 foot gauge, you would divide 7.5 by 2 since you want 7.5 inch gauge to represent two foot gauge for your model. If you divide 7.5 by 2 you find that your scale for a two foot gauge model will be 3.75 inch = one scale foot.......

Gary Meyer (from "Scrap" and OCME)

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:57:32 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: 110 Volt Motors



Hi,

In Case no else has answered you, here are my thoughts. A dimmer switch will only handle a limited amount of wattage so you would want to check the current draw versus the rating of the switch. My guess is that it will not handle the current draw.

Ron Koehler

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:50:44 EDT
From: cptboatman@aol.com

Subject: Re: 110 Volt Motors



Check out a ceiling fan speed control. That may work but check the amp draw on the motor. there are some higher amp controls available but I cant think of a brand at this time.

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:51:59 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: From measured drawing to scale



Hi Raymond,

I think you got a pretty good reply from Gary Meyer so I have not answered. I doubt I could do better. If you have more questions, please do not hesitate to ask, however.

JerryK

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:19:40 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Prototyping 1 1/2" Cast Arch Bar Trucks



We belive that there is a need for, 1 1/2" Scale dependable Arch Bar Trucks at an affordable price! We are in the process of "prototyping Arch Bars that will be produced from cast iron. They will simulate the "Bent" Arch Bars.We will be using self lubricated needle bearings and a special design to allow for articulation of each wheel.More information will follow as we proceed.

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:23:32 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Prototyping 1 1/2" Cast Arch Bar Trucks



How about some 2 1/2" scale arch bar trucks.

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:39:29 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Bill's suggestion of 2 1/2" Arch Bar's could possibly be taken under consideration by us. Does anyone have a blueprint we could use? Is there a demand for this type of truck?

Doug Liggett

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:05:54 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Doug,

I have prints for 2 1/2" scale arch bar trucks. If you will send me your mailing address, I will mail them to you.

Bill Laird

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:59:02 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



You might want to consider that Dave Conway (Conway Locomotive) already markets a beautiful set of 2-1/2" scale archbar trucks. Photo of one of these trucks in "Master Railroad Builder".

d orr

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:51:21 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: (unknown)



What price is Dave Conway asking for his Arch Bars?

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:34:34 +1200
From: Bob Logan

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Hello from Bob Logan, New Zealand. Ask Dave Conway to put up his email or web address Please, I am about to do an NG arch bar set of trucks for 7 in gauge.
Is the "Master Railroad Builder," pics on the net?
Thanks in anticipation,

Bob L

Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:55:16 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



To those who asked about Dave Conway: His 2-1/2" archbar trucks are, to the best of my knowledge, scale replicas of D&RGW trucks. They are real archbars, i.e., no cast Arch Bars to look like the real thing. To my knowledge, the photos in the book are not on the web anywhere, and I would question the legality of scanning the photo in the book and then sending it out. What I can do is take a photo of one of mine and send that to you. Keep in mind that mine have been sitting on the shelf waiting for me to finish the car, so they are not painted, but are a good representation of his trucks. Let me know if you would like me to send one of mine to you off line.

Have no idea how much they are now, best contact him. He has no web site, nor does he have email...what he does have is access to email. YoU may email him thru Como ROundhouse.

Just send your inquiry to Rudy with the header "Please forward to Dave Conway". He also has available the finest C-19 and Mogul castings I have seen for 2-1/2" scale.

Don Orr, Suffolk, Va Locoparts
1-1/2", 2-1/2" and 3-3/4" scale steam locomotive accessories, gas burners and tenders, and Allen parts

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:14:38 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Yes there is. also 2 1/2 passinger car trucks.

Ron Koehler

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:15:49 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Hi Bill,

Any chance I could also get a set of prints? Do you have any passinger car prints also?

Thanks,

Ron Koehler
402 S. Buchanan
Maryville, Mo 64468

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:57:03 EDT
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: 5 Moguls



Hello Mr.Orr:
Thank you for your reply to my inquiry about the 5 Moguls story. As I read further into the article, I believe I saw more than I first believed was there. Indeed there is sufficient information to attempt a vacuum ejector similar to what you used. The ash pan is pretty self explanitory (question later).

Thanks also for the info on the tender. That looks like a very good way to go when I get to the Mogul (Wabash), but I have completed the tender frame for the Fitchburg Northern. Would you sell the tank parts only for that loco? Also, with due respect to Tom Rhodes, I believe that the tank on the Fitchburg is too tall. Aesthetically, I like to see the tank top on period engines roughly level with the bottom of the cab window. Oh well, maybe it's me. What dimensions were you planning to use for the FN tender?

On the ash pan, I wonder what type of lever you put in the cab for dumping the ash hoppers. The pictures show the linkage but not the inside of the cab. In all it looks to be a good and substantial set up, and I would like to adapt it to the FN as there is a similar but smaller ash pan there.

Finally, I note in your closing e-mail line, you have included Allen Parts in your list of supplies. Are you going to be expanding your Allen oriented parts or are you actually going to carry some of his stuff?
Thanks for your time.
Don Bauer

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:14:23 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Hello to Bob Logan in New Zealand. I am in Australia and we have an excellent 7-1/4 arch bar truck for 2-1/2 scale based on cast aluminum journal boxes and a cast centre piece to house the springs and support the arches. Otherwise the truck is fabricated of cheap flatbar steel and a length of 25 X 50 mm RHS for the bolster. The trucks have been in use for over ten years here in Sydney as well as in Melbourne.
The cast iron trucks discussed recently will not prove to be very satisfactory. For the truck to withstand reasonable loads the arch bar sections will need to be grossly oversized. I assume the needle bearings referred to will be the "torrington" type which are absolutely worthless for such an application. These are the bearings with a pressed sheet metal inner race and small diameter needles. They foul easily with dirt and fail in no time. They also are poor with lateral trust loads. The proven design here has 35mm OD, 17 mm ID deep groove sealed balls which are standard off the shelf items from all bearing houses. We have never had a bearing failure in applications from show cars, rider cars to tenders. Applications of the torrington type bearings here have resulted in premature failures regularly. The torringtons are attractive because they are smaller in diameter than dee

We posted a drawing of the trucks we use over here to the list a few weeks ago. If you don't haveit , let me know off line and I can fire it your way. It was done in AutoCad 14 but will work with AutoCad Lt or other applications as well.
Drop me a note offline on my personal email if you want to discuss it further.

Geo A Paxon

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:10:49 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Mr Bauer

I will answer your questions regarding the new super riveted tender kits for Allen and other engines, and other Allen engine parts off-line so as not to disturb those who are not interested.

Thanks for your interest.

Don Orr, Suffolk, Va
1-1/2", 2-1/2" and 3-3/4" scale steam locomotive accessories, gas burners and tenders, and Allen parts

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:24:36 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Cast Iron Arch Bars



This is in reference to George's comments:

I certainly enjoy people's opinions--everybody has one!

Aluminum castings have been proven to be very hazardous to some passengers as porosity is very bad causing high fatigue/stress fractures in those type of trucks.

However, we will be using a 75,000# ductal iron (considered an overkill in the foundry business) so the arch bars will NOT be "grossly oversized."

We are NOT using a Torrington bearing because they do not make a needle bearing that fits our design perimeters. However, Torrington makes very good bearings but when designing, or I should say redesigning a truck, one must take into consideration the proper bearing for a particular environment.

We are going with a needle bearing that has a structural load of 2700# D.F.

As far as dirt and contamination: this is a major concern to us as a bearing has a strong failure rate in this type of environment. We will be using a needle bearing that will NOT become contaminated!

Again, our main goal is to produce an attractive, less expensive truck to an individual that cannot afford "big ticket items" and not compromise on quality or safety.

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:39:55 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



But Don,
not that we are nosy, or anything, we all just want to know!
Arno

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 10:07:54 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Arno

I would be glad to share this information, or any information I have, with this auspicious group...BUT.. I have, as have several others, caught the devil on past occasions from some of the members of the group since what I offer is of a commercial nature. Never mind that a lot of folks never get the word unless it is spread in some medium such as this, but there are those who just don't want a hint of anything commercial, whether it enhances their knowledge of available items in the marketplace or not.

I will be glad to share my answer this time on this forum later today, and we'll take it from there.

Don Orr, Suffolk, Va
1-1/2", 2-1/2" and 3-3/4" scale steam locomotive accessories, gas burners and tenders, and Allen parts

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 10:50:20 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Don,

I do understand some of those who are upset about crass commercialism. If you were to post a price list on a weekly basis I, probably, would be the first one to complain.

Your reply to a direct question should not be treated differently from questions we have right now about the 2-1/2" Arch Bar Trucks thread.

I do appreciate reading about it.
Most subscribers to this list do not pay Telco connection time by the minute so, if they are not interested, can use the key.

Matter of fact, I wouldn't mind hearing from Clarke Simm once in a while.
Arno

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:45:50 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



I will second Arno's motions.

Jim Hoback
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 01:53:18 -0400
From: Tansj@sloan.wnyric.org

Subject: Re: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



You know maybe it would be a good idea to have different MFG's list their new offerings once in a while on this list,not to promote one's product over anothers,but as a reference source that could stimulate information and promote more building of live steam equipment. Also these MFG's who are some of the real experts in certain areas could help inform NewBee's on the list and could then answer a lot of good ons techinical questions .As you all Know I am sure that no one has yet to make a million selling in this hobby
What does the list Think???
good or bad Idea.
Joe

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:05:16 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Dear All:

The discussion about a vendor list suggests that we can avoid duplication of effort. On the Train Mountain web site, we have made a effort to have "...links to every known vendor of goods and services to the 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" gauge hobby that has a web site, world wide..." If we have missed narrow gauge suppliers who should be listed, please provide me the web address so that we can add them.

Purists may object that we do not include suppliers who do not have a web site. However, our view is that in 2001 a simple web site is so easy to do that anyone who purports to be in business that does not have a site really is not serious about being in business. Not having a web site is like not having a telephone number.

If the group want to prepare a list of vendors who do not have web sites and append it to the web site for this group as a separate page, we would be pleased to provide a link to that page.

Quentin

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:04:23 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Quentin

I think what you are suggesting in the first part of your email already exists. Review of your web site, as well as Fr Finelli's and Jim O'Connor's indicates to me that there are few vendors left that are not listed somewhere. Indeed, there are many already listed that have neither email nor web access. I agree with you: in this day and time I fail to see how any supplier in the hobby exists without access to at least one of them...but they do. Take for example my good friend Barry Hauge: he has neither and has no intention of getting into them due to the time it requires Answering questions takes a good deal of my time. But it is part of the support I offer both to my customers and to the hobby.

I think the real issue here is how does a vendor to the hobby such as myself( or Joe Tanski, or LocoWorks, or etc) get the word out that I have a new product? There are few ways in a small population hobby such as ours:

1. I can advertise in Live Steam...there are many among us who do not subscribe,
2. I can create a web site...true, but if you are looking for something do you always think to go to the web?,
3. You can have your business or service listed along with your address as a link on any number of web sites...

and hope that potential buyers see you name, or you can attend events such as IBLS2000, Cabin Fever, Names, Mid-South, etc,...and show off your wares.

I can relate to all the above, so now lets follow on from there.

Lets look at what happens when you have a new product to offer: I am familiar with this firsthand since I do, but what it is is not the issue here.

I plan to place a large ad in Live Steam...we have already established that a large portion of live steamers do not subscribe, so how do I reach them?

I have a web site, but how oftem do "you", the live steamer, go surfing the vendors to see what they may have out that is new?

I am registered with livesteamers, and 7-plus-NGM, but the policy is generally "no commercialism", so unless someone asks a specific question, how do I get the word out? (And for the most part, I heartily agree with this policy, for as with all such matters, there is always the one rotten egg who will abuse the privilege and spoil it for everyone)

Many times recently I have talked with live steamers building engines who told me "if I had only known you were making these....but they missed having access to my product because I had no way to let the market know it was available.

Like other vendors, We attend runs, but there is no way I can convince my bride that we should be at a run every weekend, or even once a month...and if I did, I would only be further behind in production.

Sorry, guys: I have no solution, and further, as a vendor, it is not my place to dictate a solution. I am only posing a problem that affects all of us who either have a new product or are looking for one.

As Joe suggested, I too personally would not object to vendors posting 3-4 times a year a VERY BRIEF note as "I have the following new items available...see my website or contact me off-line", and that be the end of communication on the network. Any further communication would be Off-line.

I realize I have probably opened Pandora's box here, but resolving it could enlighten a lot of folks in our hobby.

As a final note I would like to personally thank you, Quentin, and my good friends Fr Jay and Jim O'Connor (who has my web site) for the service you do for me as vendor by linking me to the live steamers. The largest portion of Locoparts businbess comes from the web, and y'all make it possible. Thanks to all of you.

Flak jacket is on and zipped up.

Don Orr, Suffolk, Va NEW: Riveted tender kits!
1-1/2", 2-1/2" and 3-3/4" scale steam locomotive accessories, gas burners and tenders, and Allen parts

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:10:01 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Its got my vote also...

Jeff Badger

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:52:26 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Don:

I have no problem with vendors such as yourself letting lists such as this one know of a new product. A new product is news. For example, many train publications have special columns for New Products that are reader favorites. The recent discussion on 2 1/2" gauge archbar trucks demonstrates that there is interest in information of this sort. What does the rest of the group think?

By the way, strictly as a news item, you might be interested to know that the LSB8000 Locomotive Steam Boiler Treatment is now available in single bottles at the Train Mountain Company Store.

Quentin

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:46:31 +1200
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Lathe Info



Hello team,

I am currently in the market for a Lathe and have been offered a Qualas (spelling?) Junior. It will handle around an 8" job and will turn about 12" between centres. It is second hand and has a number of tools and other parts.

Is anyone familiar with this lathe, and what reputation do they have in the wider world?

Grant Alexander
C/- Squirrel Valley Railway

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:47:25 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: ads



I have no problem with an occasional announcement about a new product. This industry is small enough that we all need to support one another.

I would suggest that the title of the posting start with "Commercial Announcement". This way, a person could set up a filter to trash all commercial postings if they wanted to. I do this on another 7.25 list for their reminders about meets being held in England.

This is really up to Hubert since it's his list.

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:38:59 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Crass commercialism consists of email trying to sell me a new VISA card, MCI phone service, a home loan, how to make a million bucks in 10 days on corn futures or chain letters. Crass commercialism does not consist of vendors or manufacturers announcing their new products or their existing products that are in keeping with the list-group interests.

I have no idea how quickly this group evolves/revolves with regard to subscribers. I suggest monthly updates by manufactureres/suppliers as a reasonable interval. This is the case on other groups to which I subscribe and it seems to work OK.

If a vendor has an on line catalog, a monthly reminder where to get it seems reasonable. If a new, interesting offering is ready to ship to buyers, they a note to that effect would be appreciated at the time of availability. I don't see this as spam.

Some may object, of course. And why they are here might be questioned if they object to getting new information, commercial or otherwise.

JerryK
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:55:05 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin
Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls

Quentin Breen wrote:

If we have missed narrow gauge suppliers who should be listed, please provide me the web address so that we can add them.

I would rather see the vendor suggest that his company be listed. It is a privacy matter. I can't see why any vendor with a website might not want to be listed on the TM site, but I'd rather give the vendor that decision rather than make an assumption.

Purists may object that we do not include suppliers who do not have a web site.

LOL. Real purists don't have a computer and don't want one. It is a social thing. They'd rather talk on the phone, receive letters, avoid having an electronic record on the net someplace. Talking is part of the fun of being a small supplier in a rather small hobby.

However, our view is that in 2001 a simple web site is so easy to do that anyone who purports to be in business that does not have a site really is not serious about being in business. Not having a web site is like not having a telephone number.

I disagree. I went 15 years with no telephone. It just wasn't a problem. Even today, I'm not intimidated by a telephone ring. I'll answer it if I want to, but don't feel like I have to. Depends on how busy I am. Serious has nothing to do with having a web presence. The recent demise of hundreds of dot.coms who thought every business and every person was going to get on board is evidence that the web is merely a broad adjunct to the Yellow Pages.

Even though I've played devil's advocate a little, I wholeheartedly support an exhaustive list of vendors. Trouble is, someone has to keep this thing updated and that will take a lot of work. In addition, a list of URLs is pretty much useless without a full annotation of what is available at that supplier. That almost requires an updated catalog with prices. Hard to attain in a hobby atmosphere.

JerryK

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 23:25:02 EDT
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



To all who have expressed an interest in commercial discussions on the list:

I believe that I am responsible for this banter about commercial vendors simply because I wasn't paying attention and sent a message intended for Don Orr only to the entire list. Oops!

However, while there are the arm chair livesteamers out there who build nothing and those who have the toolong and talent to build anything they want from scratch and scrap metal, I think most of us depend on suppliers for some or most of the materials we work with.

If the above is correct and if most of the suppliers are live steamers as well, who have found that they can make something that someone else can use, and thereby defray the cost of their own hobby we are all better off to let them speak.

There is no one out there who is going to make a living off of this hobby. There are simply too few of us. Live Steam magazine costs $6.50 per issue simply as an economic fact. The circulation is too small to keep the cost of production down. Even Model Railroader is up in price these days, and they have 150,000 circulation. Economically, we need the suppliers and they need us.

Finally, we may all weigh in on this but the only one whose response really counts is the list owner, Hubert. If it is ok with him, then the nay sayers should change sandboxes.
Don Bauer

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 00:40:47 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Quinten, is the treatment based on the water supply at Train Mountian?

Jeff Badger

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:28:19 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Jeff:

We carry the product because it is recommended by members who own steam engines. It is formulated by a company in Michigan and has no relationship to the water at Train Mountain.

Quentin

Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:17:13 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: (Fwd) 7 Plus NGM group



------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: Fynefort@aol.com
Date sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:08:21 EDT
Subject: 7 Plus NGM group
To: goose@wetekamp.de

We read a message from one of your members, Howard Springer, that he was having trouble contacting us. Not sure why this should be, but we do have a web-site:
www.fynefort.co.uk
which contains all the necessary details. We're not looking for free publicity from a hobby site, but would like to correct the impression that we are difficult to get hold of!

Happy Steaming!

John Lockwood
for Fyne Fort Fittings
Clarence Boatyard
East Cowes
Isle of Wight, PO32 6EZ
UK
------- End of forwarded message -------
Hubert

Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:21:07 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



OK, Dave, here is your answer, plus a small commercial since that is required for your answer. Answers are inserted below in the text of your email.

Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:35:24 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: 2-1/2 Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Be aware that Paul Garin and I are in the process of developing some Arch Bar trucks that will be available through RMI. I don't think Paul has decided whether these will be available in both finished truck and/or kit form, but those of you familiar with RMI's work will know that they will be of the finest quality.

RMI so far has been very successful in producing top quality products at a very economical price. For those of you that are looking for "cheap" trucks, just remember that you get what you pay for, and one person getting injured due to the catastrophic failure of a poorly cast side frame will far outweigh any cost savings you realize on trucks....

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:54:23 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: 2-1/2 Scale Arch Bar Trucks



Rudy,

No one on this list questions the quality of RMI's work. Some of us still do our own work however. Does your statement mean that you will no longer support our independent work with drawings, tools, or castings? Please let us know ASAP so we don't bother you with unwanted requests for supplies.

Thanks,

Stan Z.

Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 18:29:33 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



Don

Here is the photo of the lever in the cab. It is shown in the 'open' position.

don

Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 18:51:16 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: Re: 5 Moguls



BIG Apology to all. Ther photo I just sent to Don Bauer was not supposed to have been sent here...I was suppose to send it to him directly...

I take my lashes! It was an accident! Forgiveness requested!

d orr

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:49:33 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Fall Fling?



Does anyone know about a train meet in Michigan around the date of, Sept.10th. The meet is called; Fall Fling?

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:42:03 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Fall Fling?



Michigan "Fall Frolic" is Sept. 17-23, 2001. Meet is private by invitation only. Contact Richard Tomlinson, 19311 Hickory Ridge Road, Fenton, MI 48430, 810-629-4486, bjdtom@ameritech.net

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:58:13 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Ther photo I just sent....



Yeah, Don - Pretty ugly! Must be wet back there is VA, too!

Rudy van Wingen

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:14:21 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Como Roundhouse support....



Stan -

No, that is not what it means. However, in light of incresing age and in the interests of seeing the hobby supported in the years after I am gone, CRP is slowly transferring certain items to other vendors in an effort to improve availability and quality.

Since Gene Skoglund of "Gene's Foundry" retired and donated all his patterns to CRP, we have been trying to convert Gene's patterns to commercial foundry boards and quality. This has turned out to be a truly daunting task!

SInce RMI has indicated a genuine interest in developing a 2-1/2" scale line, Paul and I have agreed to begin this process.

RMI already has a couple of CRP items in production and will be adding more as time and demand dictates. Whether of not CRP will also continue to sell these items is still under consideration.

In the meanitme, CRP continues to develop and finance new products and provide help and support where appropriate. This last year alone we have introduced almost a dozen new investment cast detail parts for locomotives and cars, and more are on the way.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:27:12 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Re: Como Roundhouse support....



Rudy, now if you would bring in 3 3/4 parts I would be happy.

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:02:00 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: 2-1/2" scale Link & Pin Couplers



Date: Fri May 25, 2001 7:49 am
From: engineer
Subject: couplers

I find that I have some time to work on projects, so I figured I'd start building some link and pin couplers. These couplers would be in the 2" to 3 3/4" scale range, mainly industrial style with a bolting flange. I may do one that requires a pocket if there's a market for it.

Stan -

Como Roundhouse Products just received first articles off a new pattern for 2-1/2" scale L&P couplers. We are in a position to provide them in aluminum, brass or cast Iron. CRP can also provide two different draft gear types if needed.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:11:32 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: 2-1/2" Scale Link & Pin Coupler Photos



Photos of the new Como Roundhouse Products Link & Pin Couplers are now available:



Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:13:51 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Como Roundhouse support....



Tom -

And here I am trying to cut back! Have a heart!!

Rudy

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:43:31 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: 2-1/2" scale Link & Pin Couplers



Rudy,

Interesting looking coupler. I don't recognize the shape, is it a western prototype of some sort? It does look like it would fit into a standard coupler pocket.

How about pricing information and some pictures of the links and pin types available? There is a genuine dearth of link and pin couplers. RMI is the only supplier I'm aware of for 7.X gauge trains. It's good to finally get another choice. We need as many options as possible.

Stan Z.

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 04:30:44 -0500
From: "Mudhen"

Subject: Re: 2-1/2" Scale Link & Pin Coupler Photos



Very nice looking couplers Rudy.

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:33:05 +1200
From: "Hansen-Hill"

Subject: Fw: [IndustrialRailwaySociety] News



Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:02 PM
From: John Batts
To: IRS egroup
Subject: [IndustrialRailwaySociety] News

Evening Standard Monday 11 June 2001 21

Who wants to be a steam train driver?

AN APPEAL for steam engine drivers is launched today to save a London attracton from closure.
Syon Psark Railway in Brentford needs volunteers to man its Royal Scot replica, which carries 15,000 passen- gers a year. The engine runs along a narrow gauge line.

John R, Batts,
51 Horton View,
BANBURY,
Oxon,
England,
OX16 9HW
(01295)264391
+44 1295 264391

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:05:08 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: locoparts



A lot of the comments here have been negative lately so I wanted to pass along a positive note.

I ordered gas jets from Don at Locoparts this weekend for my CliShay. Well, they arrived today just as ordered. The parts are beautiful and they're only $12 each! It would take me much longer to machine them than its worth ... and I don't think I'd do as good a job anyway.

Locoparts gets my seal of approval and a highest recommendation.

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:15:11 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: locoparts



I use burner heads made by SolarFlo Corp. Their #674 propane burner head was $8 last year when I got my last batch. These have become fairly standard burner heads at GGLS.

JerryK

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:22:20 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: locoparts



Jerry,

I heard about SolorFlo but they won't talk to live steamers. The only way to get their burners is to deny what I intend to use them for. That's why I found another source. SolorFlo sent me a catalog and then insisted they would not sell me any.

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:04:39 -0700
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: locoparts



Stan,

What is your other source for propane burners?

Ron Koehler

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:26:09 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: locoparts



Gee, sorry about that Stan. We haven't had any trouble, but then I've heard of what you said too. Generally, I just mail them an order and don't say anything other than what I want. Don't give them a chance to question me.

What I'm wondering is: Did you get SolarFlo burners, or some made by someone else. If someone else, it would be good to compare them with the SolarFlo ones which are really quite good and relatively cheap.

Things are strange sometimes.....

JerryK

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:54:49 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hello all,

I'm at the final planning-time for my next 2.5" scale project, the RGS "speeder", which is available in 1/4" scale from Grand Line.

I have some photos in the RGS-story and the Sunset on the RGS as well as two kit's from Grand including the instructions.

I'm searching for more information about this motorcar.

Has someone out there photos or detail-drawings?

Any help is really appreciated.

Thank you

Hubert from Germany Hubert

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:28:02 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: locoparts



Ron,
Locoparts is the source I was talking about.

Stan

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:23:58 -0400
From: Robert Herronen

Subject: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hube,

Was it the #10 Speeder? What book and page is the picture on? If it is the one I believe it is, it could be the one (the ACTUAL speeder) I maintained out in Colorado at the Colorado Railroad Museum. Had her running pretty well too!

-Rob Herronen
Randleman, N.C.

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:26:20 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hello Rob,

I don't think, that the speeder is preserved at the CRRM.

I found a really good photo by Frank. O . Kelley in the Sunset on the Rio Grande Southern Vol. I on page 52. That's the best photo I have found 'til today. Here the speeder is called Fairmont Motor Car.

Another photo is in the Narrow Gauge Pictorial Vol. IX on page 94. There it is shown in Mancos beside the watertank with open door.

Attached is a drawing from the Grandt Line kit instruction. I hope, that's o.k. with Grandt Line, that I scanned it.

Hube

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:48:35 EDT
From: Mt14l@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hubert;

If this is the car I think it is it's present location is at Knott's Berry Farm. This car is a very early M9, possibly an MM9. There WAS a web site detailing it but I'll have to look long and hard for it. They had a campaign on a while back to get some information on it.

I'll try to find the web site. Maybe someone in the LA area can confirm.

Dave Sherron, Scarborough ME

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:11:04 EDT
From: Mt14l@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hubert;
This is the car I was referring to. It is apparently at the Orange Empire Museum in CA not at Knott's Berry Farm.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~ddye/rgssped1.htm
Dave Sherron

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:12:31 EDT
From: Mt14l@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hubert;
Here's the whole history of the RGS motorcar. I KNEW it was at Knott's at one time!!!
http://www.users.qwest.net/~ddye/rgsspeed.htm
Dave Sherron

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:21:30 EDT
From: Mt14l@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hubert;
Oh I see this is a much larger car you are interested in. This looks more like an S2 or M14 gang car. The prior pictures are of an M9 which was the smallest Farimont made.
Dave Sherron

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:21:54 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: 3 inch supplier



I was at my club today and we have a vendor displaying goods at our father's day meet. He has a few casting for 2 1/2" to 3" scales, most tend to scale closer to 3". An example is a 3" knuckle coupler, unmachined, for $35 in Aluminum or $65 in steel. I have no connection to this vendor, I just thought some list members might be interested.

The company is "Locomotion", phone number is 740-426-9088, They're in Jeffersonville, OH.

He will not be available this weekend since he's at PVLS in Southwick MA.

If you're local, I assume you're coming. We draw quite a crowd on Father's day meets.

Stan Z.

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:48:11 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re: Fall Fling?



And then after this, is the "Follow Frolin" to September 27th to celebrate my birthday!

. . . har har har

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:05:24 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Turning Wheels



I am a self taught home mechanic (wish I could say machinist, but I am not that good). Through trial and error I have developed the following method of turning wheels from cast iron wheel castings. I would very much like to hear comments on my methodology and other ways folks accomplish the task.

1. Mount the casting in a three jaw chuck, hub facing the chuck, chucking the wheel tread.
2. Face off the back of the wheel casting.
3. Drill/bore the axle hole.
4. Remove wheel from chuck and mount on an expandable arbor with the end of the arbor about a 1/4" inside the axle hole. Mount arbor/wheel assembly in the chuck with the front of the wheel facing out.
5. Face off the wheel hub.
6. Remove arbor/wheel assembly and remount wheel on a much sturdier home made arbor that has a washer and nut on a threaded center shaft. The 6 inch long arbor was made from 1" diameter rod with a turned down 1/4" threaded center shaft about 1 1/2" long. Various sized home made collars are used to take up the room between the arbor center shaft and the axle hole diameter. Mount this arbor/wheel assembly in the chuck with the front of the wheel facing out.
7. Face off the front of the wheel to the proper wheel width ( minimum 3/4" for 1 1/2" scale wheels, 1" for 2 1/2" scale wheels).
8. Set the tool holder to 2.5 degrees from horizontal.
9. Turn the tread of the wheel to the proper finished wheel diameter, leaving a ridge for the flange about .175" wide and about .2" high.
10. Reset the tool holder to 0 degrees from horizontal.
11. Using a homemade flange profile tool, turn the IBLS flange profile on the flange ridge.

This whole process takes me about 2 hours per wheel, sometimes more when it has been awhile since I last turned wheels and sometimes less, often depending on the quality of the castings I use which dictates how much material must be removed to square the wheel and turn to finished dimensions.

Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:38:10 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: 3 inch supplier, Saw him



Stan,
Hi, see you this weekend. I saw the fellow this past weekend at the ALS meet. His work looked to be high quality castings. He also has alot of rolling stock with him for sale.
Barry

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:28:42 -0400
From: Robert Herronen

Subject: Re: Re: RGS MOW (speeder)



Hi Hube,

Yeah, that is what we call a "gang car" on the N.G. The speeder I had was an inspection car. The gang cars tended to get car or truck engines in them (after a while) whereas the inspection cars tended to keep the single cylinder engines.

Sorry I can't help you there Hube. There are some other gang cars at the CRRM that are undergoing restoration (for the past 15 years.) You might be able to get details from them. If you contact the CRRM, the best person to talk to is Andrew Dahm.

Robert Herronen
Superintendent of the Rio Grande Southern R.R. of N.C.

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:50:24 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: 3 inch supplier



NON_COMMERCIAL:
"Locomotion" was at Adirondack LS Spring meet a week or so ago. Was awaiting development of pix before blowing this chap's cover (First name Paul - have card floating about somewhere) as he had a good looking (3' prototype with an arched top cordrather than typical 2' flat bar) truck cast jounal boxes bolted up bar costruction. 5.5" dia, wheels axles 12" oc.

No ctalog though I did print up cc's of ng pony and trailing trucks and other castings/assemblies that he offered. Not bad looking castings at all, at all.

End of non commercial.

Cam Brown

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:21:59 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: 3 inch supplier



Cam,

He actually has a catalog now! I have a copy but it doesn't have prices in it. I would suggest folks contact him directly since the catalog is 10 pages and I'd rather not scan it all in.

If anyone has something they must have right away, I will see him tomorrow. Send me your lists off-line and I'll see what I can find out.

Stan Z.

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:07:51 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: 3 inch supplier



Stan
Could you send his address and cost of catalog.

Thanks,

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:48:56 +1200
From: "Robert S Logan"

Subject: Re Roger Loxley



Hello All.
Has Roger Loxley changed his address? He was on http://livsteam.demon.co.uk
Regards Bob Logan New Zealand

Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:52:05 EDT
From: Mt14l@aol.com

Subject: Re: 3 inch supplier



Cam;
Any chance of getting scans of the printed matter and "Paul's" name. Is "LOCOMOTION" the dba name he uses?
Thanks!!
Dave Sherron, Scarborough, ME

Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 21:22:48 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: 3 inch supplier



Let me see if I can scan the pages next week. The catalog is NOT complete, but it gives you an idea of what he has. He's heading home tomorrow so I'd suggest calling him. Tell him you got his number from "Stan from Pioneer Valley".

Locomotion - Paul ? (I can't remember)
(740) 426-9088

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:21:19 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Econo Trucks



Okay, before anyone slams me, let me preface this message. With the economy in it's current state many of us have seen our fortunes decline. I feel there is a market for a good looking, inexpensive, simple truck.

I know this has been done before in 1 1/2" scale, I'm talking about 2 1/2". The trucks will be archbar style. I say style, because the side frames will be a single cast piece. You can't replicate a proper archbar truck in a casting but I think we can come close.

The trucks will be center equalized with no springs. This design has been used in most scales. It's simple and it doesn't derail. These trucks are not for display pieces, they're meant to be on riding cars.

Okay, now the question: How thick do the simulated bars need to be to ensure a durable truck? If anyone has experience in this matter, please share the information. I'm thinking of two materials: aluminum or maganeze bronze. The bronze alloy is nearly as strong as steel, according to my foundry, but it's more expensive. Aluminum would keep the costs down but the "bar" thickness would be greater.

I have some prototype drawings I'm reviewing right now to see how feasible this is. If it works in 2 1/2" I may pursue 3 3/4" as well since that's where my primary interest is. (3 3/4" trucks are VERY expensive if you can find them.)

Please be gentile in your replies.

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:59:09 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Have you checked the following web site http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/ , look under the "For Sale" area. I bought a pair and they are very nice.

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:03:10 EDT
From: Smallhand@aol.com

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Stan,
You might talk to Steve Easlon of "Western Rails". He at one time marketed a truck of 2 1/2" scale.

Ray Hill

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:36:49 EDT

From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: 2 1/2 trucks

John,
I bought a pair also, due any day now. Will let you know about them.
Barry Bridges

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:28:57 -0700
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



I feel there is a market for a good looking, inexpensive, simple truck.

I have to agree Stan, even if there is no economic downturn. After all, younger large scale guys should be concerned withtheir richer retirement days :-).

I know this has been done before in 1 1/2" scale, I'm talking about 2 1/2". The trucks will be archbar style. I say style, because the side frames will be a single cast piece. You can't replicate a proper archbar truck in a casting but I think we can come close.

Well, my question would concern the requirement for machining. 2 1/2" and larger will require larger machines if the side castings are in one piece. Individual pieces for the journal boxes would present a smaller envelope requirement for machining. The center parts might even tax some smaller mills. Besides, it is no big deal to make a bending die for the bars. One is straight, one is slightly bent, and the third would certainly require a die if you were to make more than a few. I've made the bars in a vise using a hammer and sheet metal pattern quite successfully. Personally, I think a whole cast sideframe to be overkill. The reason is not totally from the constructor's point of view, but from the caster's point of view. The pattern would be difficult to make, the mold difficult to do correctly, and the wastage probably larger than for single parts made with the idea of steel-bent-bar frames.

Okay, now the question: How thick do the simulated bars need to be to ensure a durable truck?

Basically, unprototypically thick, and worse for aluminum. I still vote for steel bar.

I think Gene Allen has some nice cast iron castings for 1 1/2" arch bar trucks. I don't see why something similar for the larger scales can't be done. If the basic question is the cost of a whole side frame cast from iron or aluminum vs the cost of axle boxes and center bolsters cast and steel bar side pieces, then I would still opt for the steel bar side pieces since the individual parts plus strip steel is probably cheaper. It also allows for springing and bearings, etc.

Anyway, thoughts as typed......

JerryK

Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:19:44 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



I believe the "Econo Trucks" originally referred to were the ones in Live Steam magazine years ago. They had straight strap steel on the top and bottom and hardwood journals for the axles to run in. I don't recall the year they were described in the magazine.

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:49:41 EDT
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Actually "econo trucks" are a decent 1" and 1.5" truck made from plate stock shaped sorta like a sideframe. They are sold currently by Rogers-Cooke Loco Works. Sorry don't have a price. They were based on an article in Live Steam or Modeltec. If anyone needs the article, I can look it up.
Don Bauer

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:28:22 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Thanks for all the input, though I didn't get a direct answer on bar thickness, I did get some good feedback.

1) I checked out the trucks for sale at Discoverlivesteam. They are cast iron side frames for $495 per pair. The simulated bar stock is 3/8" X 7/8". The frames don't look that thick in the picture but that's what I was quoted by Fred Adams. They are nice looking trucks at a fair price.
2) It may be more economical to assemble the trucks from bar stock, unless you add in the cost of labor. There's a lot of machining to be done to the castings before they can be assembled. Milling, drilling, and tapping. This IS the more authentic method.
3) The original use of Econotrucks (one word) was in Modeltec's October 1984 issue. It was part of the Econogons articles. The actual design I was favoring was published as "An Economical Car Truck" in the March 1985 issue of Live Steam. I have seen similar trucks with central equalization elsewhere. A good example is Don Ritchie's truck set for 3/4" scale.

The goal of this exercise is to create the simplest design for the lowest cost. I should have made it clear that I'd also like to reduce machining costs since many people don't have access to machining facilities. I'd also like to eliminate springs if possible. I don't know if this can be done for less than the $495 per pair price listed above, but I'd like to find out.

So, if anyone has an idea of what the frame thickness should be in aluminum I would greatly appreciate an email.

Thanks,

Stan Z.

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:59:46 EDT
From: Smallhand@aol.com

Subject: Econo trucks



The article on Econo trucks was in Modeltec October 1984, page 50

Ray Hill

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:28:00 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Hi Stan- Just a few comments about trucks-
I like the Modeltec October 1984 Econotucks- they are on the wood bench car you used last Sunday. I use 1 1/8 od, 1/2 id, 3/8 wide ball bearings instead of bronze bushings. While they may not look prototye, they are relatively cheap and easy to build; and stand up well to hard use hauling public.
The March 1985 Live Steam trucks I have made for 3/4 trucks. Without springs in an 1 1/2 scale truck, just pivoting on a stripper bolt, the ride can be harsh. They are fine for diesel engines or non riding cars.
In the November 1970 Live Steam, Bob Maynard details building 1 1/2 scale arch bar trucks. I built a set for my first 1 1/2 flat car some 20+ years ago. They used bronze bushings. Were I to do more, I would use the 1 1/8 bearings. He used 1/8 by 3/4 steel to bend for the side frames.
The Pooles, from Glouster,MA were at our meet on Saturday with some new flat cars. They made arch bar trucks very similar to Maynard, but used 1 by 2 tubing for the bolsters; and 2 die springs per side.(Maynard used one).They advertise the trucks for $250 per pair. No website but email- skooks2442@aol.com

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:57:11 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Rich,

Thanks for the input. Your car did ride nice. If I recall, the club flatcar that Marshall uses has the stripper bolt trucks. I could be wrong. That car rides okay but it could be because of its all wood construction. I've also ridden on Don's 3/4" scale car a few times and it was okay. I did feel ALL the irregularities in our high-line though.

Part of the reason I post stuff like this is to stimulate conversations. Being a relative newcomer to large scale trains I like to run ideas by this and other groups to see if I'm anywhere near reality. I do have a nice library of old Live Steam and Modeltec magazines but there's no substitute for experience.

I didn't get a chance to talk to the Pooles, I'll contact them now.

Thanks,

Stan

Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:48:04 -0500
From: "Mudhen"

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



Just curious but in the last Catalog I had from Dave Conway, his excellent looking 2.5" Arch Bar trucks were $440 as rough casting and didn't include the barstock for the sideframes. It was $485 with the barstock. So for $495 for cast sideframes it kinda sounds like we're trying to re-invent the wheel here when there seems to be a better alternative already available. Maybe someone has a current catalog & price.
Dave also offers Couplers & stake pockets besides casting for a D&RGW/RGS C-19, a C&S Mogul & a H.K. Porter 0-4-0

Mark Petersen
Camp Creek Railroaders
Omaha, NE

Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:25:11 -0700
From: "Ken Burns"

Subject: Re: Econo Trucks



I have a pair of Dave Conway's excellent trucks @ $525.00 out the door of Dave's shop in Pasadena. That is unmachined. The "economy" trucks that have been referred to in earlier notes are $495.00 ready to run. That is a really BIG deal for a non machinist such as myself. As I will be building 4 riding cars and a caboose to accessorize the Conway C-19 that I am helping to build, debut at IBLS 2005.

Ken Burns
Salinas Subdivision of the Rio Grande Southern Railroad

Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:23:36 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: 1" High Aluminum Rail For Sale



Fellow listees,
I hope this dosen't overstep the bounds of commercialism on this list.
I am about to order some aluminum rail from my extruder and was wondering if anybody wants some. I will be selling it at 90 cents per foot plus shipping from Scranton, PA. It is of the west coast profile and in 10 foot lengths. No minimum amount other than it has to be in 10 foot increments. I can e-mail a full size photo of the profile on request. Please let me know in the next week if you are interested.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 21:06:49 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Help on standards wanted.



Hey Gang -

Stan Zdonick and I are mutually working on some Link & Pin couplers, and as far as we know there are no standards for the size and shape of the links and the pins.

Both Stan and I think that the links should be made from 1/4" diameter steel wire, that they should be about 1-1/2" inches long inside, and that they should accommodate a 3/8" diameter pin.

We also think that the should be one open link so that when slack the buffer faces of the coupler heads will butt together for pushing. The open link allows the couplers to push each other instead of the pins carrying all the stress.

We have also seen a version sold by RMI that is a "two hole" design that prevents the heads from butting and thus the pins do carry all the stress. Also, this design creates some thrust vectors at right angles to the track center line that could cause a derailment (in our opinion).

We have observed that some use 1/4" pins while RMI uses a 1/2" pin; we figure that 3/8" would be a good compromise. Does anyone have any good data or photos of the pin head configurations? Ideally it would be one that does not have to be lathe turned to keep the cost down, yet look prototypical.

Before Stan and I get any further into the development and production, we would like to solicit the 7+NGM groups input and experience, wants and opinions.

We await the deluge!

Rudy van Wingen
Stan Zdonick

Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:05:53 EDT
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: 1" High Aluminum Rail For Sale



Bruce;

That seems awfully high for alum rail. I think we just got some for $.65 a foot here in Houston.

David Hannah, III

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:51:33 -0400
From: David J Kmecik

Subject: Climax



HI, everyone

I am looking for plans of a vertical boiler Climaxclass A locomotive and was wondering if anyone had plans that I could get copies of.

Thanks in advance
Dave

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:45:26 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: why 90 cents a foot was 1" High Aluminum Rail For Sale



David,
I am paying 67 cents a foot for the rail itself. Plus truck shipment of the rail to my shop. Plus I make the arrangements for the shipping from Scranton, PA (including the gas for 45 minute drive each way) plus I provide the shipping container (crate for large orders) or box that the rail is shipped in. Total cost, 89 cents per foot. I do not include the time it takes me to carfully crate the rail for shipment and the hour and a half spent driving to and from Scranton. I figured 90 cents per foot to keep the math simple.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:13:03 EDT
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: why 90 cents a foot was 1" High Aluminum Rail For Sale



Interesting math, I agree with your $.90.

David Hannah, III

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:31:14 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: VIME Runday



Hi all,
A big thank you to Howard and Jean Springer, Dennis and Marie Weaver and Trevor and Elizabeth Heath for attending our Summer Fair meet. They did yeoman service hauling many many passengers for our club.
Thanks a bunch from all at VIME.

Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:11:21 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Help on standards wanted



Hello Rudy, Hello Stan,

sorry, I have no prototype photos.

Attached you'll find a photo I shot this afternoon (bolts.jpg). This photo shows the end of one of my 4-wheel-flatcars with an primitive link&pin-coupler and two pins on the decking.



I built up the coupler from two layers of hardwood, milled out the inside and screwed the whole assembly with two deep-flange-screws to the endbeam. I drilled an 8 mm hole (0.32") and use an shortened 8 mm carriage-bolt as pin.

And this worked for more than 60 miles as the first car in my train. I had some derailments, but that were caused by stretching my legs onto the flatcar and laying them onto the rear axle. When I had to brake, the whole train of around 400 - 500 lbs pushed onto the flat-car, and than the first axle - with no weight on it - derailed.

On the car you can see a commercial available pin and one of my carriage-bolts. The price of the turned pin is not really cheap, I think between 5 and 10 $. They have an diameter of 10 mm (0.39").

We use in our group chains. That will help, when we have different heights at the couplers. Some have link&pin-arrangement, and other a buffer with a hook (head of a carriage-bolt) on it.

I prefer a drawbar, that will give not so much stress to the whole train, when I'm braking. With chains, one car after the other bumps onto the car in front, and speeding up, one coupling after the other will come up.

I never had an derailment caused by the drawbar.

The second photo shows my new tool for loading/unloading my cargo-trailer. It's a two wheel dolly with a section of 6.5 ' of track.



At the end tube, there is a crate-lock installed, so that I can lock the track to the trailer. Now I can unload/load the locomotive and the riding-car in around 5 minutes by myself, and no need to request help from other railroaders. Also, I can transport the locomotive and cars over a longer distance without any problems.
To unload the transportation-track, I lay it down and roll the equipment onto the layout. If I have no dead-end-track, I have to lay the track onto the stationary track. That will give a step of around 2", but I constructed a small peace of track from aluminium-angle, guided to the correct gauge. I can lay them over the transportation-track onto the stationary track and have than a small ramp.

Hube

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:38:15 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Howard Springer on Link & Pins...



Howard could not sign in so I am posting this for him:
-----------------------------------------------------
Rudy: something, somewhere, refused my reply via Egroups @ Yahoo. Use this as you see fit.
Howard

Rudy & Stan - - There is a standards sheet used by the Redwood Railway for their 15" gauge ( I think that's their name) which shows link and pin couplers. I thought I had a print of it, but seem only to be able to find the part of the print showing their version of MCB couplers which I was going to use for the profile I machined into the couplers I got from Rudy.
Certainly, Rudy must have access to that standards sheet, which you could simply reduce 50%.
Howard

PS Rudy, you may remember the lashup I had for brake air riding in the lead caar of my train (an electric compressor, air tank, & battery, with the air supplied to the loco manifold via a short piece of 1/4" shop air hose.} Early this month on the serpentine at TM, I proved Quentin's Klutz theory.
I forgot the chain between the tender and the lead car. My spring applied - air releassed - Automatic brake system worked just as advertised. The coupler opened up, the lead car dropped back, and pulled the trainline apart. The train stopped as advertised, the loco did not (also as advertised.). By the time I woke up, that air line had stretched from about 2 feet to 8 or 10 feet, and pinched down to the diameter of a pencil. The train passengers were afraid it would break and give them a giant snap !

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:40:06 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Link & Pin Scale



It has been pointed out that I failed to specify the scale of the L&P couplers Zdonick and I are working on.....

2-1/2" scale for 3' prototype.

Rudy van Wingen

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:25:28 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Under Attack - Potential Death of the Hobby



Hi all,
As an ex resident of Ontario I have always remained in contact with Live Steamer friends from the younger days. I was recently sent a note from an home town club member and I thought that the Canadians on this list at least would be interested in what the Harris Government Conservatives are up to as regards Model Engineering and Miniature Railroading. If you live in Ontario and can call in some political points with your elected member; please at least try for the sake of the hobby to get this overturned.

Regards
Dennis Dalla-Vicenza
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:38:03 EDT
From: Thime@aol.com
Subject: Re: Link & Pins...

Rudy,

I've uploaded a copy of the 5" scale 15" standards that Howard mention to the files section of the group.

---

You mentioned the use of some proper sized links that would allow the faces of the couplers touch. I would strongly advise you against selling them! All it would take would be one person not paying attention to lose a finger and sue you to the poor house. :-(

Leave it to the builders to get themselves into trouble. :-/

I have made drawings for a fullsize replica (based on WSLCo couplers) Carter Brothers L&P coupler, which was pretty much West Coast standard (SPC, NPC, NCNG, WSLCo, C&C, PC, SCRR, etc.):

Pin Dia.: 1.5" = .313"
Approximate Link Dia.: 1.5" to 1.75" = .313" to .365"

Cheers,
Curtis

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:23:04 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Link & Pins...



Curtis,

Thanks for uploading the document. A similar set of drawings appeared in Live Steam back around 1977 I think. They also made their way into the latest issue of another magazine dealing with 7" plus railroads.

I don't know if I agree with the statement about building correct link sizes though. There isn't that much play in between the couplers. You could make the same case for knuckle couplers. I suppose we could make some links extra long so that the faces never contact. 1/4" links should be able to stand the compression forces when the cars come together.

Hubert mentioned that they run with chains in Germany. This would mean that the cars would contact on the buffers. It is conceivable that someone might put their fingers there as well.

Stan Z.

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:26:55 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Help on standards wanted



Hubert,

Now I see what you had in mind for my coupler. This could be replicated by cutting off the draftgear and tapping the coupler head for a mounting bolt or two. I'll let you know when I have prototypes done.

Stan

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:42:49 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: SR & CL Ry Update



For those that don't want to read about us you will be able to delete when you see update.
For the rest, here is what has been going on so far this year.

We have about 700 feet of new track in service on the East end toward ClearLake.
This gives us about 5000 feet of main line in service. The old 8 lb rail on the main line at Jack's pit is been taking up along with the switch for the east leg of the wye and the sand spur and being replaced with new 12 lb rail this month. The switches will be used at Clear Lake to put in a run around track till the turntable gets built. When that gets done, the trestle on the west end outside of Highpoint will be tackled. The car shop crew is working on coach #250 slowly. The inner skins for the outer walls were added last month and handle rails bent up and set in the holes. Brake parts are being made for the hand brakes and need to get welded on or formed. Maybe by the end of the year the completed car will make its debut. Mel took some digital photo's of our progress so maybe they will get to our website sometime soon. SR &CL #7 has been put away for the summer after a fun winter and spring of steaming. It will get a boiler wash and work on the left boiler check valve as it is leaking. That's about it for now

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:55:07 -0400
From: "Nathaniel C. Guest"

Subject: your assistance please!



I am looking for anyone who is in contact with Dr. John Miller of Newtown, Connecticut. Please call me or email me as soon as possible. My telephone number is 607-255-8525 at work and 607-257-9417 at home. Call collect if you like. I also have email at ncg1@cornell.edu. Thank you very much!

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:11:30 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: (Fwd) Decauville 0-6-0



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:01:42 -0000
From: jegame@tutopia.com
Subject: Decauville 0-6-0

Look at this beautifull Decauville 0-6-0 locomotive.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/fecherol/decauvilleGB.htm

Regards,

Jorge Garreta Mendoza


Hubert

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:40:57 EDT
From: Thime@aol.com

Subject: Re: Link & Pins...



Stan,

Those 5" Scale standards have been around for a couple of decades now, thus will probably look familiar to many people. You probably saw a copy in the last issue of "Grand Scales Quarterly" magazine.

The difference between buffers and L&P couplers is that you don't have any reason to put your hand in-between the buffers. L&P couplers require handling, far more than any knuckle coupler. At least this has been my experience around the full-sized stuff.

If someone is linking two trains together all it takes is a slight nudge with a foot to get automatic couplers to line up. Couplers w/ Links can be a bit more finicky, and are very tempting to just reach out and grab the link with a hand to line them up. If Rudy sells the links, and someone grabs one and doesn't get his fingers out of the way fast enough, there are a dozen rat-attorneys that would sue him for creating a situation where someone could be hurt. :-(

Personally, L&P couplers should have links of proper size to allow the couplers to function as designed. Good L&P couplers would be as strong as using a tie bar between the cars.

I just don't want to see Rudy get introuble for someone else's stupidity.

Curtis

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:54:01 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Link & Pins...



Hi Stan,

Hubert mentioned that they run with chains in Germany. This would mean that the cars would contact on the buffers. It is conceivable that someone might put their fingers there as well.

Yes, that might be possible. But thank's god, here in Germany we do not have the problems like you in the states with the attorneys, but it's slowly starting.

Attached is a photo of a 3" scale tip-over-gon, which you can buy from a manufacturer. You can clearly see the buffer-plate touched by another car, and the hook above the buffer-plate. He uses a single link instead of chains, as we do.

He also is offering a scale-model of a slot-buffer, where you have to fiddle the link in the slot and to put the pin in. That's the same buffer, I have on my locomotive.

Hube
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:40:15 +1200
From: "Robert S Logan"
Subject: Re Jack Brown of Derbyshire

Hello All.
I am about to embark on a project of obtaining a "Sweet Pea"
In the Jack Buckler book, page 61, a picture of a 10 1/4 inch gauge Sweet Pea, by Jack Brown of Derbyshire.
Is Jack still about ?
He can access me on , boblogan@pin.co.nz
I would appreciate any news, as to the whereabouts of the 10 1/4 in Sweet Pea?
does Jack still own it?
Has it another owner?
I thank all, in anticipation, for all and any information sent, regards the 10 1/4 " Sweet Pea"
Have a great "Steaming" weekend.
Bob Logan
Northland, New Zealand

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:55:43 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Link & Pins...



Hubert,

Nice little tipper, it looks like a pretty good copy of a Koppel tipper, right down to a copy of the cast nameplate on the end.

Don't worry about the lawyers, they'll make it to your shores soon enough. It just takes a while for sharks to swim across the Atlantic.

Maybe we need to print a warning "use only as directed".

Stan

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:14:35 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re: SR & CL Ry Update



Tom,

This is GREAT news! Its always good to hear how things are progressing on the Sandy Ridge & Clear Lake RR. And good to have updates on the coach status as well.

Maybe you could get a picture or two and post here in the Forum under the files.

About how far is it now from current end of track, to the first switch of the passing siding at the end of the line? And do you think this might be completed this year?

On the Forney #7... just curious but why is it out of service now for the summer? Engine problems (thats sounds funny) or just to hot to run (he he - try the 100+ degrees in Texas, this time of year).

Give Jack my regards and congradulations on the on-going great progress he is making on his wonderful railroad.

Frolin
MMRR

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:50:44 -0700
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: Re: Link & Pins...



Maybe we need to print a warning "use only as directed".

Don't forget: Read and follow label directions, avoid excessive use, and....
actual mileage may vary.

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:42:39 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Re: SR & CL Ry Update



Will do. see below for responses.

Later;
Tom Casper

Maybe you could get a picture or two and post here in the Forum under the files.

Will have to see what Mel does with the ones he took..Will try to get them on the web page soon.

About how far is it now from current end of track, to the first switch of the passing siding at the end of the line? And do you think this might be completed this year?

The rail is ready for the switch to be attached. As soon as Jack's Pit gets completed with the relay we will start working on Clear Lake.

On the Forney #7... just curious but why is it out of service now for the summer? Engine problems (thats sounds funny) or just to hot to run (he he - try the 100+ degrees in Texas, this time of year).

Fire Danger, We don't run it in the summer unless it rains a lot as it throws sparks and the pine needles are easy to go up in flame. When we ran it in April, a fire was started by one of the sparks. I was watching, so stopped the train and the head end guy got off and went back and stomped it out. Jack wasn't to happy plus its hot in the cab by the boiler in the summer. I have to ware long sleeves to keep the burning skin to a minimum so that adds to the heat factor.

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:08:33 -0000
From: "Chris Draper"

Subject: Humour!



Tom is applying for a job as a signalman for the local railroad and is told to meet the inspector at the signal box.

The inspector decides to give Tom a pop quiz, asking: "What would you do if you realized that two trains were heading towards each other on the same track?"

Tom says: "I would switch one train to another track."

"What if the lever broke?" asks the inspector.

"Then I'd run down to the tracks and use the manual lever down there," answers Tom.

"What if that had been struck by lightning?" challenges the inspector.

"Then," Tom continued, "I'd run back up here and use the phone to call the next signal box."

"What if the phone was busy?"

"In that case," Tom argued, "I'd run to the street level and use the public phone near the station."

"What if that had been vandalized?"

"Oh well," said Tom, "in that case I would run into town and get my Uncle Leo."

This puzzled the inspector, so he asked, "Why would you do that?"

"Because he's never seen a train crash."
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:16:16 -0400
From: f7215@juno.com
Subject: Locomotive Plans

Hi Everyone,

I am looking for plans for two different locomotives they are as follows:

East Broad Top RR M-5 two sets of cow - calf type two-axle Plymouth switchers. They were purchased from Bethlehem Steel in 1986.
1) narrow gauge Class A Vertical boiler climax.
2)


If any one has or knows were I can find plans of these locomotives please let me know.

Thanks in advance

Dave

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:08:12 EDT
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: Modeltec Magazine



Does anyone have July, Sept, and Nov 1984 issues of Modeltec? I would be interested in the magazines or reprints of articles in these issues.

Also, is Jan/Feb 2001 the latest issue anyone has?

Don Bauer
Phoenix, AZ

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:10:46 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: AALS 2002 Tasmanian Meet



Hi all,
Denise and I and hopefully about forty other North Americans need some help. We (Denise and I) are in the process of putting together a trip to Australia for the 2002 Easter (Fall) AALS meet and we would like to do an Australian East Coast Ramble following the convention.
We will be at Launceston for the whole event and then do the cog railway and ??
We then fly to Melbourne and hopefully start playing for a day or two at each track up to and including (Noel promised) Brisbane.
What I need is club contact people who can arrange for us to view and ride at each club along the way. The trip for most will be about 21 days and we will be a some (most) clubs in the middle of the week. If you care to help arrange this trip please contact me A.S.A.P.
To the others receiving this posting if you are interested in details for attending please contact me and I will forward as received. Itinerary so far does not include meals or motels but the air fare is change over $2200.00 Canadian. Final figures will be forthcoming with confirmation of numbers. If you know of someone who may be interested please forward this to them.
Thanks
Denise & Dennis

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:11:57 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Nortel email



Folks,

This email is to notify everyone that my Nortel email address is no longer valid. Anyone who still has my old nortelnetworks email address on file should use my new address - stan@zdonick.com

Thanks,
Stan