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7-Plus-NGM Digest June 2003

Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 08:00:16 -0700
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Re: Oh happy day ;-)))



Hubert,

CONGRATS! That's great, I can't wait to see you and the 'thing'! This work week was great, we had about 40 workers and work they did! Wow! The track is in great shape, lot's of repairs, lot's of cleaning, lot's of everything. Your speeder will have a great time here! Again, I know it was a lot of work, sooooo CONGRATS!

Russ and Linda
Chiloquin, Oregon

Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:17:16 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



I am looking seriously at making a portable track, that will go around my house (having no yard to speak of its the only place I can go!)

I am thinking seriously of using 1/2" x 1" bar stock as rails, welded to C channel crossties, spaced at like 12" apart. Switches, I think I can work out, even if I wind up using alumium rail and make it a pointless switch (one way switch, phyically move the end of the rail to mate in the correct direction).

Has anyone made any such portable tracks? I am shooting for 5' long sections of both straight and curved, as that way, one man can handle each piece, and bolt them together with some form of rail connector on the outside of the raid (maybe recess the heads of the bolts on the inside? or just put them low enough not to mess with the flange of the wheels).

Opinions, suggestions options, and other such things are welcome.

(oh, btw, 7.5" gauge, gauged to be 7 9/16" on the straights, and 7 5/8ths on the curves to handle larger equipment. hoping for no less than 25' radius curves).

Thanks to all,

Dwayne Miller
M D & S Railway,
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:10:15 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Hi Dwayne:

It sounds like a great idea. Just use round-head screws and put the heads inside. I just uploaded three pages from my Midwest Rail catalog into the Files for you to look at.






Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:26:39 +1200
From: "Chris Draper"

Subject: RE: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



I am using 30x10mm Bar stock with the slotted sleeper method of construction for my home track. I know of some who use 25mm(inch), but suggest this is likely to take a little more maint - esp for a portable track. I have successfully build some turnouts where the blades are milled to a point for half their height ie go from full width of 10mm to about 2mm over a distance of 300 (1 foot). The rail is then 'bent' so the milled surface is in line with the running edge of the rail and sits nicely against the stock rail. Provided the tip of the blade is rounded off wheels will not pick them - even without the stock rails being jogged. I can send some photos if anyone interested.

Regards

Chris Draper

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:55:49 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Speeder arrived in Los Angeles



Hello all,

after finding out yesterday, that the box with the speeder was delivered yesterday noon, this morning I found an report and a lot of photos from Rudy van Wingen.

So, I just produced the last update of the construction-page, before I'll head west next tuesday. Please cross your fingers, that their will be no strike by the flight-controllers in France (I'll fly with Air France via Paris to LA).

Hope to see a lot of you during the next weeks.

Hubert from Germany
http://www.7-plus-ngm.org/pcr/speedere.htm

Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 17:57:20 -0600
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



You should consider making concrete ties. These would allow you to bolt rail to the ties with the bolts set in the concrete. The mass of the tie is enough to ballast the track without ballasting with gravel. If you need more information on casting the ties let me know.

Chuck

Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 00:44:46 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Consider I will... but I am worried that they might be too fragile for moving around? Plus the consideration of weight, even at 5' long lenghts, they are bound to be pretty heavy.

How much do they weigh per tie? It not a bad idea, its something I will consider... I just dread the though of having to lift the sections... as my kids, are not exactly old, nor big enough to help with the heavy stuff.

Dwayne Miller
M D & S Railway,
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:04:43 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



we are using 3/8 X 1" hot rolled steel set i slotted 2x2 ties. there are several ways to join the rails. conventional joint bars or tubes welded to the rail and pins.
see:
http://www.railsystemsco.com/Groovy%20track.htm
this page has good info on steel rail and turnout construction

also see:
http://www.illinoislivesteamers.com/turnout_construction.htm
this is a good page on alum. turnouts.
good luck,
fred v

Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:28:05 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



we are using 3/8 X 1" hot rolled steel set i slotted 2x2 ties. there are several ways to join the rails. conventional joint bars or tubes welded to the rail and pins.

I have seen those on the web, but never seen one in operation. I wonder how well they hold up to being moved, and if they come apart or not.

This would be a very prefered method of making, esp if I was to add 4 or 5 metal crossbars(over a 5' long section) to hold gauge, and use the wood for support and looks.

You would not happen to be running on a track like this would ya? I would like to hear from someone who has used it, and has seen its ups and downs. I think I could make one of those track snappers pretty easily with materials onhand.

also see: http://www.illinoislivesteamers.com/turnout_construction.htm
this is a good page on alum. turnouts.


Belive me, this page is bookmarked, trying to figure out how to make these using barstock, the Track Snapper system has some more info, and I may wind up using that info, even if I dont use track snapper system itself.

Thanks All, keep the ideas and suggestions coming,

Dwayne Miller
M D & S Railway,
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:36:59 -0500
From: "Curtis Hustace"

Subject: Re: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Have you looked at Roll Models? They have a metal tie system designed to be very portable. It works in conjunction with their track. www.rmirailworks.com
Curtis

Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:21:36 -0400
From: "L Howard"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Dwayne

Have designed and built 500' - 71/2" guage portable track including switches, passing and storage track. Track has been in use now for 8 years with no apparant problems with 6 locos and cars logging hundreds of actual miles. Each curve or straight section is 10' long + stagger of 1' and weighs 25 lbs and all pieces are interchangeable (just like Lionel snap track) and sections can easily be made and added in the future. Switches are approx 60 lbs. I use 1/2" x 1" channel for rail which is cheaper than 3/8" x 1" flat bar as steel is sold by weight not shape and 1 1/4" x 11/4" x 12" angle for ties. You probably could use wooden ties but haven't tested that as yet. If this sounds suitable to your needs and you want more details contact me and I will accomodate.

Lawrence

Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:47:49 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



I am asking these on the open list, as I am sure I am not the only one who has at least some of these questions, for more details I will contact you off list, at a later date.

My first question is: How strong compared to bar stock is the square channel? another list memeber mentioned using his as loading ramps, something I would LOVE to be able to do, one less thing to carry.
I assume, thats its near as strong as the shape would lend itself to strenght.

Next question: How does the rail interact with the wheels? I see nothing that should be a problem, esp with the channel, it already has some relief on the inside, so should not hurt any sort of wheels. (BTW, is that whole bar stock destroying/hurting wheels just a myth? I cannot see where bar stock, vs steel rail would really make a differance.).

Last question: how do you attach the ties? Weld? (something I dont right now own... something I MUST fix before making my own layout). I am wondering how you might attach wooden ties? drill all the way thru the tie and into the bottom of rail, being hollow, you could either (man this would be doable, but a real pain in the a**), and put a nut on the inside, or just tap the hole, heck using some self tapping screws would most likely be easiest.
Juar wondering what you would suggest.

Dwayne Miller
M D & S Railway,
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:59:27 -0600
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



The first question is, what is your definition of portable?
If you want sections that snap togeather you should go all steel. If you want somthing that is stable but CAN be moved that is somthing else. At low speed with small loads snap track may be best.

If you have muddy conditions and want to run higher speeds or loads you will need more support and ballast. On my 15" track the 3.5x3.5" reinforced concrete ties work well. They weigh ~35#. Cast in the center is a 1/2" rebar 18" long with 4 5/16" bolts jig welded to it.

The finished tie has it's bolts run through 3X3" tie plates with 3/4x3/16" rail guides welded on them. The bolts and tie plates gauge the track. More info and pictures at www.trainweb.org/riverview.

Chuck
Riverview & Twinlakes Raiload

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:06:53 -0400
From: "L Howard"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



My first question is: How strong compared to bar stock is the square channel? another list memeber mentioned using his as loading ramps, something I would LOVE to be able to do, one less thing to carry. I assume, thats its near as strong as the shape would lend itself to strenght.

I don't have a comparison to bar stock re strength and all its details.
Suffice to say although we don't condone this, out of necessity we do drive over it on occasion with vehicles and have had fire trucks drive over it without damage (a problem sometimes with portability and track location).
Track was placed on a concrete pad and therefore raised 11/4" as "ties" were not imbedded. I have built two other "tracks" for others of similar size based on the performance of the original. The guys at Great Lakes Live Steamers have 6000 ft of similar (channel and angle) constructed (20 ft lengths) permanent track located in Star Jaycee Park in Detroit. They have been using it for more than 25 years in a public park and where the city lawn mowers, vehicles, etc drive across it. They decided it was good enough for them to return to the same when they expanded.

Next question: How does the rail interact with the wheels? I see nothing that should be a problem, esp with the channel, it already has some relief on the inside, so should not hurt any sort of wheels. (BTW, is that whole bar stock destroying/hurting wheels just a myth? I cannot see where bar stock, vs steel rail would really make a differance.).

I have not seen any appreciable wear on wheels. I run a 475 lb 4-4-0 and a new 600 lb 4-6-0 on it.
4-4-0 has been running for 8 years. The channel has a slight angle toward inside to it when affixed to ties and I knock off the sharp edge with a couple of passes with the hand grinder when originally built or when there is a sharp edge. Besides adhesion is better on steel when wet which occasionally happens.

Last question: how do you attach the ties? Weld? (something I dont right now own... something I MUST fix before making my own layout).

Yes, everything is welded, including the splice bars to opposite ends, opposite rails - nothing to forget or find when on location except nuts and bolts. I picked up a used AC buzz box for $25. This is truly portable track - set up and taken down 2 or 3 times a year as required at remote locations and otherwise stored outdoors in my backyard in 2 stacks measuring a total space of 11 ft x 3 ft x 3 ft (running will quickly make the rust disappear). It takes 6 of us about 2 hours to set up at location and 1 hour to dismantle. Sometimes I set it up in my own yard when wanting to run or attach a few sections for testing. The reason for this constuction was so that one person could handle the whole operation or remove to relocate if necessary or alter track configuration easily. It is a simple matter to unbolt and replace a section in the event of damage and sections are "lightweight" and easily handled.

I am wondering how you might attach wooden ties? drill all the way thru the tie and into the bottom of rail, being hollow, you could either (man this would be doable, but a real pain in the a**), and put a nut on the inside, or just tap the hole, heck using some self tapping screws would most likely be easiest.

Haven't tried that yet, so can't give a definite answer. Shoud be easy enough if you jig it up for the drill press. I would probably drill and use deck screws. I am not sure if the self drilling and threading screws could work. By the way if we get into wet or muddy situations we attach 2x4's to ties to add extra "ballast" support where needed.

Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:25:31 -0400
From: "Michael Blaisdell"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Did you make a roller to form the curved track?

Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:47:38 -0400
From: rhartsoe

Subject: portable setup



I have been considering building a portable setup to take to places for kids parties, etc. I plan on using the 1 1/2" pressure treated stock for cross ties and flat bar connectors with wing nuts. Most of the time it will be set down on pavement, parking lot, etc. No switches are needed. Why make it complicated.
Robert Hartsoe
Miracle Mountain

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:37:06 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Hi again Dwayne:

There was an article in "Live Steam" a year or so ago about building a portable 7-1/2" track. As I recall, it was by a club in British Columbia who use it in a shopping mall during Christmas time. The article was in at least two parts, and had all the information, drawings included, on their track and operation. There were track panels (straight and curved), and a switch with steel ties and permanently mounted "splice bars" . Maybe that will be of some use to you. I'll have to find the issues for the dates.

Best,
Mike Decker

Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:47:39 -0400
From: "Michael Blaisdell"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



Great idea! I mentioned something similiar to a guy 2 years ago and he told me it wouldn't work! Sounds like you proved the concept with 8 years running.

My only question was about bending the curves. Can you give me some insight?

Mike

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:02:26 -0400
From: "L Howard"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options,suggestions?



Did you make a roller to form the curved track?

Yes, the roller was built using 2 fixed rollers on the bottom with an adjustable top roller that was flanged ( and power suppied by armstrong inc. - crank hp) set in the middle. You need to take care that the "rail" is put through straight otherwise the rail becomes twisted. Generally I rolled through and then back. You can give a bend on the wide radius I used by hand but the rolled gives a nice bend to the two ends that are staggered.
Welding on the jig holds the radius and the weight of the engines and cars when initially run "sets" the track.

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:57:27 -0700
From: "Dennis Dalla-Vicenza"

Subject: Re: AME Run events



Lawrence,
Pardon the list usage but I'm trying to organize a new computer and haven't figured out Outrageous Express. Could you let me know what days AME will be operational this summer as Denise and i may be back your way for a return visit. Also i could pass the information along to my grandchildren so they can take in the action.
Regards from the left coast,
Dennis

Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:13:27 -0400
From: "Michael Blaisdell"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions

?

What radius are you using for your portable track?

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:34:59 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: AME Run events



The only AME I can recall is the African Methodist Episcopal Church, and I don.t think they have.

All like minded people welcome at ALS , the other track at Saratoga, but call one of us ahead of time if your planning to drop in.

Cam Brown

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:25:52 -0400
From: "L Howard"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options,suggestions?



What radius are you using for your portable track?

Its actually a little complicated to explain the reasons why - has to do with math and making full use of steel, equal no of curves on the ends of an oval, etc but is basically 46 ft radius give or take.

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:53:44 -0400
From: "L Howard"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options,suggestions?



Great idea! I mentioned something similiar to a guy 2 years ago and he told me it wouldn't work! Sounds like you proved the concept with 8 years running.

I was skeptical too at first and spent a summer, a fall and winter thinking about it and doing all kinds of calculations. I asked lots of questions but no one could provide the answers. As I was entertaining my grandchildren by building and running some Lionel I looked at the track and decided that if it worked for Lionel, it was time to get of my duff and do something as no one else was going to do it for me. This was simply to be snap track in a bigger size. I made the plunge, did my final math caculations based on what I wanted, bought material and hoped that when I finished the first 2 pieces would fit together. Nothing ventured - nothing lost and the lord does hate a coward. To my surprise the pieces fit just like the math caculations suggested and so discussed my success with war department suggesting that I needed a few hundred feet give or take to fully test the theory. After agreeing to do some paint jobs etc, etc I bought the rest of the required material and as they say - the rest is history.

My only question was about bending the curves. Can you give me some insight?>

"Rail" was put through a home built roller and then clamped on a jig. Jig was laid out on a piece of 3/4" plywood and spacers (2x6's radiused to curve) built and screwed to jig to hold guage of tracks during welding of ties to rails. One side of jig is for straights and other side for curves.

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:59:33 -0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Need wheels



All,

I have exhausted my very limited resources. I need a source for 6 4" diameter cast spoked wheels for a 7.5" gauge project. I would prefer drive wheels, but at the moment I would settle for trailing truck style. I'm really not picky, and could make do with anything from 3.5" to 5" diameter, but I need six and I'm not willing to pay a king's ransom.
Thanks in advance for any leads.

Roy Stevens
Utah

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:40:33 -0700
From: "Arthur & Loraine Watters"

Subject: Re: Portable tracks... opinions, options, suggestions?



I belong to the North Coast Live Steamers in California. We have a protable track 7 1/2 gage, we have 30 curves and 15 straits they are made of 3/4 thick wall tube 10 feet in length using bolts through center of first tie and last tie with pins. Works good.

Arthur Watters

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:39:08 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbay"

Subject: Re: Need wheels



Roy,
Allen Models advertises 4" diameter spoked truck wheels in their catalog.
Their Phone # is (805) 967-2095

Bruce Mowbray
7+" Gauge Livesteamer (and Dieseler)

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:13:51 -0400
From: "Ken Wing"

Subject: Re: source for spoked wheels



Allen Models has 4" spoked wheel castings reasonably priced, no counterweight.

They also have a 5" driver casting for a plantation engine.

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Goodjohn

Subject: Re: Need wheels



Of course, if you're REALLY hard up, you might consider barbell weights - they are cast iron, about the right size and REALLY cheap. Also, you might talk to a local water jet/laser cutting place and sweet talk them into doing a few blanks out of 1" steel plate.

Paul.

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:24:10 -0700
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: A new page for the speeder



Hello all,

as promised, I set up a new webpage for the tour of my speeder in the US.

You can read the newest story about the speeder under

http://www.7-plus-ngm.org/pcr/ramble_e.htm

Greetings from Fullerton, CA

Hubert from Germany

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:26:44 -0700
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Re: A new page for the speeder



Hubert,

Congrats on her maiden voyage, sounds like you have a winner! We look forward to your visit to the Triennial.
Believe it or not we are running out of space! Quentin and I went for a walk around the yard and figured out how to get a few more spots but space is going to be at a premium. It will be really someting to see, over 250 engines and trains, wow! See ya next week.

Russ and Linda
Chiloquin Oregon
Home of Train Mountain

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:14:43 -0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: Turning 1.5:" scale wheels... how???



Can someone send me the contact information for Roger-Cooke?

Thanks,

Roy Stevens

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:37:12 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Looking for...



I am looking for a fellow from Sydney, Australia who called me last week and left a phone number. Due to his accent, I could not understand his name and I apparently transcribed his phone number incorrectly also (047301906), 'cause when I called him I got a message stating that the phone number was not in service.

If anyone has a clue as to who this gentleman is, I would appreciate a lead. He wants to buy some parts.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:27:19 -0700
From: "Dennis Dalla-Vicenza"

Subject: Re: Looking for...



Rudy,
If all else fails maybe Russell Dunn can post a query on the "COALS" list and find an answer for you. The "COALS" group is for Australian Live Steamers.

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:56:26 EDT
From: yrfavsob@aol.com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 803



Rogers-Cooke Loco Works
271 Parsippany Road
Parsippany, NJ 07054

Robert Holder at tel/fax 973-887-0084

Dennis

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:20:53 -0000
From: "fredvv44"

Subject: Re: Turning 1.5:" scale wheels... how???



you are looking for
Rogers-Cooke Locomotive Works
271 pasippany rd.
parsippany, N.J. 07054
Bob Holder
973-887-0084
the tools are about $29.00 in my catalog
fred v

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:04:14 -0000
From: "smallhand27"

Subject: Trucks



There's an ad in Live Steam Magazine, from Stephenson Machine Industries. Advertising Bettendorf trucks. Have you any information or experience using these?

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:22:07 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Need wheels



Roy,
I needed spoked wheels and looked around for some. RMI had some. They had too many spokes for me so I made a pattern andcastmine, but you might have alook at RMI's offering.

Geo

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:39:40 -0700
From: "Matt"

Subject: Got stiffed



Has anyone out there tried ordering plans from Truson V. Buegel Enterprises of Downey California.
I sent him $300 for some plans to build a 2.5 scale locomotive and he said he would get them to me in a week.
When they did not come after two weeks I started calling him every week to try to get the plans from him.
He said that he could not pay to have the plans copied at this time (even though I sent him via certified mail the check and saw that the check had cleared on my bank statement) and that he would get them to me in another month. It has now been 8 months!
Now, his phone line has been disconnected and I cannot find him.
Does anyone out there know where this guy is or had any similar problems?

Matt

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:56:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rowland

Subject: Re: Got stiffed



Matt,

I am not familiar with this individual, but I was wondering how you were referred to him and what engine were the plans for?

Rowland

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:27:32 -0700
From: "Matt"

Subject: Re: Got stiffed



Rowland,

The plans were for a K-37 locomotive and I was referred to him by Tom Miller.

Matt

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:57:32 -0500
From: "Curtis Hustace"

Subject: Re: Got stiffed



Matt:

Did you ask Tom Miller if he knew where he was?

Curtis

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:11:41 -0700
From: "Matt"

Subject: Re: Got stiffed



Curtis,

Last time I talked to Tom he said that he had not heard from him in years.

Matt

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:04:14 -0500
From: "Curtis Hustace"

Subject: Re: Got stiffed



Matt:

That is really too bad. It is unfortuneate that in this hobby something like that would happen. Fortuneatly, I have had nothing but positive experiences. Good luck, I feel for you . . . .

Curtis

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:19:48 -0400
From: Kenneth Chenard

Subject: Re: Got stiffed



About a year ago there was a posting in 7-plus that stated the corespondent had waited almost a year for plans from the same source.

You might try:
Truson V. Buegel Enterprises
Victorville, CA 92392
760-843-9016

Ken Chenard

Waushakum Live Steamers
Montreal Live Steamers
Maine Narrow gauge Railroad

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:28:27 -0700
From: Geoff Kail

Subject: Truson Beugel



He was a member at Los Ageles Live Steamers. You might try contacting them at :

LALS
PO Box 2156
Toluca Lake, CA 91610

Good Luck, It's a shame that this kind of thing happens. Fortunately not too often.

Geoff

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:15:32 -0000
From: "npellew"

Subject: Buckeye Coupler



I am about to fabricate the buckeye coupler for the 7.25" maxi lucky 7 but there are no details on Don Young's drawing.
The dimensions in http://www.mcconway.com/rail_prod/loc/loc_coupl2.htmon scalling appear to be excessive. I am not sure whether Narrow Gauge would use a smaller coupling.
The dimensions given in above could be scaled down but can anyone give me overall dimensions so I can make it appear 'normal'.

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:32:57 -0000
From: "solarbake"

Subject: Re: Buckeye Coupler



hi i am building the 3 1/2 gauge lucky 7 and have just purchased from america the nelson gray couplers that the drawing says to obtain luckily one inch railway supplies still sell these the dimensions for these are 3.625 overall length the shank at the back is approx 1/2" square the front end measures approx 1.375 wide by 1.187 in height i dont know whetether you could use these dimension to check with yours drawing or even scale them up.

hope this is of any help
simon h

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:59:18 -0700
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Speeder update



Hello all,

thank's to Train Mountain, I was able to upload the newest version of my speeder site.

Check it out under http://www.7-plus-ngm.org/pcr/ramble_e.htm

Greetings from Oregon

Hubert

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:58:36 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Buckeye Coupler



just browsing web but let me put my 2 cents in. Somewhere in my stuff I have a blueprint of a 2 foot coupler that I think came from the B&H back circa 1940. As I remember it says "3/4 size Climax". Also in stuff are cc'sa of the Young article in Live Steam.

Sort of caught up in cronic lassitude at the moment with family due in for a visit. If anyone thinks my stuff will help her4e, keep on my tail and I'll launch an excavation in said stuff.

Cam Brown

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:43:26 -0400
From: Kenneth Chenard

Subject: Re: Buckeye Coupler



Sandy River #23 was delivered from Baldwin with "3/4 MCB coupler climax pocket" #7 today is fitted with 3/4 MCB couplers.

The photo shows #7 on May, 26 2003

Ken Chenard

Waushakum Live Steamers
Montreal Live Steamers
Maine Narrow gauge Railroad

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:50:03 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Buckeye Coupler



Great site.
Thank you for posting it Kenneth.
--
Arno

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:54:09 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Railroad Game, Have Fun...



This game will drive you nuts! But it is indeed railroad and has sound.

http://www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/g1/train.htm

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:23:50 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Favor to ask of list members...



Greets all.

I am in need of some information.

In the design phase of making my own train (7.5" gauge, 1.5" scale), I decided that $200+ was outragous for a set of trucks for the riding car I am fabing from scrap parts (got lucky, and was given a frame from someone who did not want to mess with building the rest).

I am in need of some measurements off of some trucks. Side view, center of axle to center of axle would help me most. I have an idea to fab me some trucks, that will only require basic hand tools, and a drill press, no welding, or machining required(assuming you bought premachined wheeels and axles). I am working on a mock up, that will use all-thread for axles, and soild plastic wheels (not train wheels, just some cheap plastic ones a buddy makes at work).

If this works, half as well as I hope, I will draw it up in paintshop, and post it someplace so others can use it. It does not look like ANY prototype I have ever seen, but it would be great for the newbie who wants to get started and not sink 1000s of bucks into the hobby, or someone who wants to make a few work cars, or cars for hauling ballast and not sink tons of money into cars that will never be seen by the public.

If this works, I will then get started on a boober caboose/toolbox. That will be alot more detailed than the riding car.

I assume that differant makes will be differant, so if you will include the 'brand' or maker of your trucks (if known), that would help, I will then decide what is a minumum and max distance between the axles.

For the mock up, I am eyeballing what looks good to me, it should be close, but I would rather have something to work from than going blind.

Thanks in advance,

Dwayne Miller
M D & S Railway,
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:09:00 -0400
From: Michael Looney

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Dwayne:
If $200.00 is so much money that you are already upset about it then you are in the wrong hobby, because thing are going to cost you a whole lot more then $200.00. They adding the cost of your time into coming up with something that may or may not be safe for other people to ride on, and then think about who you are going to add brakes onto this thing you are thinking about. People do see the wheels that are under a car, and I know that I want to make sure that what is under a car is going to be safe for everyone. Cost should not be a factor when safety is concern. I think that you need to regroup and rethink what you are about to do, and if cost is that bad for you then you need to find a cheaper hobby. Safety should come first over any cost of an item.
Mike Looney

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:16:34 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Dwayne,
Do yourself a favor. Spend a little extra on your trucks. They are the foundation of your rolling stock and if they don't perform well, you will be nothing but frustrated. Another thing, don't use plastic for wheels on your final model. For a mockup they would be just fine. Plastic wheels will wear out faster than you can replace them and they will not take a load of adult riders or any load of ballast. Their softness will increase the rolling resistance of your cars and the axles will get loose in the holes.
It is not impossible to make trucks from scrap for less than $50 in material costs. Even new materials would be right in the $50-60 range. It does however take some time to machine and assemble the parts which is why trucks cost $200 commercially.
Drawings for trucks are everywhere. Magazine articles, books and website have info on their design. Simple trucks can be made from plate and bar stock and or metal strip. Wheels can be bought premachined and bearings can be bought surplus or off the shelf at a bearing supply house.
Good luck in your adventure and keep us posted.

Bruce Mowbray
7+" Gauge Livesteamer (and Dieseler)

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:15:42 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Do yourself a favor. Spend a little extra on your trucks. They are the foundation of your rolling stock and if they don't perform well, you will be

Belive me, I will be pulling my three most precious cargos most of the time, this is at best a stop gap measure, until Uncle Same gives me back my money! (paperwork mess up, who knows how long it will take to fix).

I will NOT run anything thats not sound, thus my desire to tinker a bit and expermiment, before making them to run on, I was going to post a drawing here, to see if you experinced guys could point out problems.

nothing but frustrated. Another thing, don't use plastic for wheels on your final model. For a mockup they would be just fine. Plastic wheels will wear out faster than you can replace them and they will not take a load of adult riders or any load of ballast. Their softness will increase the rolling resistance of your cars and the axles will get loose in the holes.

Yea, I had looked at these wheels as a possible (with some lathe work) set for my caboose, but even given the hardness and toughness of the wheels (they are designed for use on concrete, holding up large machines), I decided that it would be impractical to cut any sort of flange on them. I am only using them on the mock up mostly as spacers as they are roughly the same size as Tom Bee wheels (which is generally what I use).

It is not impossible to make trucks from scrap for less than $50 in material costs. Even new materials would be right in the $50-60 range. It does however take some time to machine and assemble the parts which is why trucks cost $200 commercially.
Drawings for trucks are everywhere. Magazine articles, books and website have info on their design. Simple trucks can be made from plate and bar stock and or metal strip. Wheels can be bought premachined and bearings can be bought surplus or off the shelf at a bearing supply house.


Yea, I cannot recall the name of the bent bar trucks I first tried, but with no anvil, or large enough vise, I had trouble bending the stock (course I think I got too thick a stock as well). Most likely I will solve my vice/anvil problem and go with those, but I think these will work well for ballest cars, as they are strong, and rigid.

I KNOW that I will never run the car on these mock ups, as the bolster will be made of a hardwood 2x4! I am planning on getting some more 2x4" square stock to make bolsters out of, right now, I work best in materials, and make drawings later. (just my style I guess, the old farm boy in me).

Good luck in your adventure and keep us posted.

Oh you will be hearing more from me, next time I get stuck and come hollaring for help! Pics will be posted of the progress made on my engine if the current batch of parts ever comes back from the machinest.
When they do, I can then rebuild the motor, and mount the motor and tranny. Then of course, time to send out jackshaft, axles and wheels to get turned.

Thanks guys, I am on my way out the door to finish my mock up, will take a pic or two and show you what i mean in a few hours.

Dwayne Miller
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:53:11 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



For a set of fairly cheap, yet hardworking trucks, look up MODELTEC issue from October 1984. Econotrucks is the article. I have built several sets over the years and they are all still running fine under riding cars. On later sets, I changed from bronze bearings to 1 1/8 x 1/2 x 3/8 wide unground bearings, available from MSC and other suppliers for less than $4 each. They add much more carrying capacity than bronze bushings. No bending !!
You can even work up brakes for them.

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:19:11 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Hi,

Take it from someone who has gotten into this hobby at a relatively early age, and has not very much money to spend on it. If you do not have access to a decenly equipped machine shop with a lathe, overhead mill, welder, a press, and a belt sander, you are very much in the wrong hobby with a limited budget. Look around at finished wheels and axles, you are not saving much off of $200.
I have some machining experience, with a fully equipped machine shop at my disposal and two well equipped wood shops, along with free motors, batteries, bearings, sprockets,, the list goes on. Not to mention a team of mechanical and electrical engineers to bounce ideas off of. I'm into this over $1000.00 and all I have to show for it is a pile of castings and a locomotive that runs; if you can call a moving pile of scrap metal in the general shape of a four-wheel davenport a locomotive. I don't even have a riding car yet. It's a very challenging hobby for the financially and temporarly destitute modeler.

But don't let that discourage you. Do your homework, the type of truck you'll want to build is the archbar. This style truck can be built with a hacksaw, a drill, a vise, and some nuts and bolts. It's one of the earliest design of railroad trucks. Don't re-invent the wheel, many people with a lot more knowledge of railroads than you have tried and failed at creating new designs of trucks. Go with what has worked. Run a search on the internet for "archbar" and you'll find all the information you need to get it right.

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:49:30 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



While I have gotten some great off list replies, my on list replies have been less than helpful (as in NO ONE has given me the requested measurements!).

I am tinkering, its summer time, and I would much rather be offline tinkering with my hands, than on the computer. So if my ideas turn out to be wasted effort... so be it, I had fun doing it.

And to condem a design, sight unseen... even from a newbie...

BTW: I did mock up half a truck, and pics are here(or will be, uploading now):




And Archbars (I could not think of the name in a previous post, just drew a blank for some reason), I am most likely going to make several sets. I am still trying to find a good way to bend the metal and a supply of metal that I dont have to drive an hour each way to pick up.

The Trucks I am working on, should in theory be as stong as the angle iron you make them out of. But I could be wrong.

Tinkering away is as much a pastime as trains....

Dwayne Miller
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:56:24 -0000
From: "npellew"

Subject: Buckeye Coupler



Just to say thanks to those who passed on info & where to see appropriate photos.

Date: 25 Jun 2003 13:12:00 -0000
From: 7-plus-NGM

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 7-plus-NGM group.



Description : Arch Bar Formers


Regards,

trainhead391

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:15:04 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Dwayne,
Here are some good starting numbers. Wheel diameter of 4" at the tread. Axle spacing 8". Bar size for arch bar trucks 1/8" x 5/8" HRS for light duty trucks. 3/16" x 5/8" for heavy (ballast car) trucks. I bend my strips out of hot rolled bar. This bends nicely with minimal "bend back" when forming. It also has a prototypical shape (rounded edges). I made up a simple bending form out of some scrap aluminum plate that is the same in thickness as the strips are wide. I predrill a couple of hole in the strip and use them for locating between the forming plates. I put the plate/strip/plate sandwich in an old beater milling vise and give it a squeeze. Out pops a formed bar. I sent a photo to the group page called "Arch Bar Formers" if you care to have a look at the forms. I make my journal boxes from aluminum bar and my bolsters from 1"x 2" channel.

Sorry I didn't answer you initial questions but I hope these help.

Bruce Mowbray
7+" Gauge Livesteamer (and Dieseler)

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:55 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Thanks much Bruce,

That former looks like something I was thinking of making. I had hoped to make a shop press type frame and use a bottle jack as a pressure source. Now I just need to form both of needed jigs, think I will try one from 2x6, to see how tough the cuts will be.

Thanks,

Dwayne Miller
M D & S Railway,
Barberton, Ohio

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:46:59 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Dwayne,
I thought I would need a hydraulic press too but the hot rolled material bends very easy and my arm got tired of pumping. I picked up an old beat up 6" milling vise for less than $20 to use for forming and it works much faster. The bottom of the vise (between the jaws) acts as a guide to keep things lined up. I also played around with making a lever action bender. This would be real fast at making the bars if I ever got the notion to mass produce trucks. The former plates were cut with a small band saw and can be milled or filed to shape.

Bruce Mowbray
7+" Gauge Livesteamer (and Dieseler)

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:59:23 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Favor to ask of list members...



Hi Duane:

I just got home from Gillette, and found your correspondence.

That truck looks fine for anyplace where the frame will be mostly hidden....or where nobody cares if it's "scale" or not :>) A suggestion for your bolster is what we did at Sandley's with our 15" gauge trucks. The bolster is bar stock with the ends turned down. The center pin is welded to the top of the bar, with a washer around it for the bearing plate. The end of the bolster goes through a "spring plank" casting at each end which supported four springs (like your wood block), and the "spring planks", and consequently the truck frame, are held together by bolts threaded into the ends of the bolster, with fairly large washers. In your case, just support the springs with a piece of angle turned "leg out" to the frame angle and put bolts top-to-bottom through the frame, lower leg of the angle, springs and bottom frame. You could make your bolsters out of two pieces of angle, outside legs down, with a cut-off bolt welded into the "hollow", and use a Ny-lock nut and washer to hold the bolt to the angle. That way, there's no turning the ends down or machining a flat on the top of the bolster for the center pin and washer. You would probably want to weld a piece of pipe or close fitting mechanical tube, an inch or so long, through the vertical leg of the spring angle for a little more bearing surface for the bolster bolt. If you have self-aligning axle bearings, the truck frames are quite flexible, and stay on the track really well. You've got to run over something pretty big to derail them. A light strip "X" piece (welded at the center intersection) going from one side frame to the other between the outer spring bolts will keep your frames from tipping too far sideways. BTW, our trucks have 8" wheels on 20-1/2" centers.

Your truck frame looks plenty strong to me. We supported 2-ton loaded passenger cars at speed with nothing but a top bar of (as I recall...I'd have to find a drawing to be sure, but it's in the neighborhood) 3/4" thick by 1-1/2" wide steel bar stock. The trucks we used had cast journal boxes with babbit friction bearings, but the trucks for Milwaukee Zoo use roller or ball bearing pillow blocks just bolted to the top bar. Some place, I have a photo of the Sandley truck, if I can find it, I'll post it in the Files.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Mike Decker
Erskine Tramway, Hot Springs, SD

Date: 25 Jun 2003 17:11:22 -0000
From: 7-plus-NGM

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 7-plus-NGM group.


15" gauge Sandley Friction Brg. Truck


Regards,

mdeckergwtcnet

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:25:34 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Need D&RGW C-16 Plans



Does anyone have good plans, or know or a source, for the D&RGW C-16 loco? It's a 1880 vintage standard Baldwin 3' gauge 2-8-0.
Geo Paxon

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:47:03 EDT
From: douglasandcj@aol.com

Subject: Re: Trucks



I have several pairs of these trucks, they run well, are reasonably priced but are plain jane on sideframe detail.
Actually a good value and runner.

Douglas De Berg
10809 N.E. 158th Street
Kearney, MO. 64060
Tel: 816-628-4353
Fax 816-628-2968

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:00:21 EDT
From: GMEYER6103@AOL.Com

Subject: Re: Need D&RGW C-16 Plans



Back in 1967, I purchased a large scale drawing of a D&RG C-16, 2-8-0 from the Colorado Railroad Museum.
It was about one inch scale. It showed the side elevation and a vertical view of the frame and drivers. I believe that the tender was also on the drawing but I am not sure. If I recall correctly the drawing was of Baldwin built #42, ANGLO-SAXON. They may still have this drawing available. When I bought mine it was selling for 1.00......
Gary Meyer

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:52:19 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: Sandy Ridge and Clear Lake Railway update



Hello to all. The SR & CL Ry is once again laying rail in our quest to get to Highpoint from the current end of track. We have about 330 feet to go and then both ends of the railroad will have track to them. We have a large curved fill to cross on our way and this makes bolting the rail together a problem on the curve as we are using 33 foot sections of rail. Once we reach Highpoint. we will have about 3.3 scale miles of main line (5445 Ft.)

Down in the shop, the Shay trucks we are building are taking shape. The bolsters are mostly done and we are working on the journal boxes, axles and line shaft.

our web site is srclry.com

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:22:40 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Sandy Ridge and Clear Lake Railway update



Tom,

As always, you fellows are doing great things on the SR&CLRy. Your new boxcar and passenger car are beautiful. The Shay should be an interesting sight toddling on 7-1/2" gauge. Have you had to slant the engine to bring the line shaft inward or just rely on the forgiveness of the u-joints? I look forward to seeing some photos of the Shay on your line.

I must mention your generosity for sharing your drawings of SR&CLRy equipment. I know well how much time and effort goes into these drawings. Thank you very much.

Regards,

Jim

Jim Hoback
Sonora, California

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:55:52 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 814



Jim, I think what Mel is going to do is make the axles and the trucks wider to match up better. We aren't far enough along yet for me to know for sure. I am just the shop flunkey and the information officer on the sr&cl ry. He has been remiss on adding pictures to the web site as he is remolding his daughters basement and is busy on that project.

Later;
Tom Casper