7+-NGM-logo The

7-Plus-NGM Digest July 2001

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:49:15 -0000
From: sharpo@sharpo.co.uk

Subject: no loco but plenty of photos

I haven't the skill or the equipment to build my own locomotive but I don't do too badly with a camera, so if you want to see a selection of locos running on miniature tracks in the UK then have a look at "Sharpo's Miniature World" :-

There are now over 500 photos including many narrow gauge locos on 7¼" gauge tracks, take a look.
Hope you enjoy some of the photos.


Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:49:29 -0700
From: "Brian Marriott"

Subject: RE: no loco but plenty of photos

Very impressive. As an ex-Rhodesian, I particularly liked the Garratt photos. Also, your links page(s) are the most comprehensive I've seen. Please keep up the good work.

Regards, Brian Marriott

Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rowland

Subject: Re: Under Attack - Potential Death of the Hobby

I was wondering if anyone knows if there is appeal process for this inspectors decision?


Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:09:46 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: no loco but WOW!

Dear Sharpo,
I am "like totally" impressed ( as an American teenager would say).
But really, your collection of photos is fabulous.

I will have to spend hours viewing all the images.

Thank you,

Barry Bridges
Connecticut, USA

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:00:02 -0000
From: sharpo@sharpo.co.uk

Subject: Re: no loco but plenty of photos

Thanks Brian, there was a "narrow gauge" event at Weston Park a few weeks ago and both Garratts were running, so I can promise a few more photos of those marvellous locos, and most of the others that ran. There are still many more photos from other events to be added, all I need is the time!!

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:07:32 -0000
From: sharpo@sharpo.co.uk

Subject: Re: no loco but WOW!

Thanks Barry, there are loads more to be added as time permits. If you get bored waiting for new ones you can always have a look at the photos of "the real thing" be it in the UK or Portugal, not to mention the steam road vehicles (oops, sorry, slightly off topic there)

Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 11:38:53 -0000
From: tonyrita@earthlink.net

Subject: 7 1/4" gauge "Olomana"

Hi All,
I was at the R.R. Museum of Pennsylvania yesterday to photograph the Olomana a 0-4-2 narrow gauge Baldwin once used in the Cane fields in Hawaii. It is on loan from the Smithonian and is mounted on an elevated stand which makes picture taking easier.
I had been searching for acurate drawings, and the only ones available are from the DeGoyler Library, but I will not be able to get them until later this year or early next (tremendous backlog, and they are staffed by volunteers)With the cooperation of the Museum staff I will be allowed to take further photographs and measure it so that I can produce my own drawings. If anyone is interested in a set of drawings I will make them as well as the photos available on CD for a small fee. My goal is to build a 2.4" scale version to run on 7 1/4" track.

Tony N

Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 08:21:48 -0500
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: 7 1/4" gauge "Olomana"


I would be interested . . . please let me know how much.


Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:08:47 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Pictures from the last livesteam-meeting


as some of you know, I attended the last weekend the annual meeting of the German backyard-railroad-club.

I've set up for a short time a special picture-page about this event.

You can find the pictures under


Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:21:04 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Pictures from the last livesteam-meeting

Thanks Hubert

Very interesting stuff. Nice photos.


Mike Decker

Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 12:37:17 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Pictures from the last livesteam-meeting


Great pictures! I especially like the comparison shots of 1.5" and 3" scale engines. I also liked the twin 1 2/3" scale GE boxcabs on 5" gauge track. I think the air tanks should be under the running boards. They must be tiny, I'd guess about 9" long!

You also managed to get a nice shot of outside-sprung pedestals in the WWI trucks.

Stan Z.

Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 16:10:53 EDT
From: PrototypeB@aol.com

Subject: Re: Pictures from the last livesteam-meeting


Very Interesting !!!
Looks like a great meet.
Thanks for sharing.

Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:23:38 -0700
From: "Brian Marriott"

Subject: RE: Pictures from the last livesteam-meeting


Your pictures of the annual meeting are excellent. What type [digital or film] camera did you use?

Regards, Brian Marriott

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:34:54 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Pictures from the last livesteam-meeting

Hello all,

thank you for the nice comments.

The pictures were taken with my Kodak DC 280 digital camera. It has only 2,000,000 pix, but when I shot with the best resolution, it will give really good pictures for print-out.

The photos on the website are reduced in size and also compressed by around 30% to save space.



Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:42:02 EDT

Subject: 7.25 Class 08 Shunter

Hello, a new member here !

Just stumbled across this group and it looks interesting. I have a couple of 7.25" engines I run regularly. One, a Basset-Lowke 0-6-0T tank engine (steamer) and the other a pseudo Class 08 shunter (actually based on an old petrol lawn mower engine).

I am in the process of drawing up a set of CAD drawings from models, photos and originals. I intend to rework of the shunter to bring it closer to the '08 ideal.

The question is are there any drawings out there already (paper or otherwise) and am I alone in this effort?

On a second point does anybody have details of the components and plumbing requirements for construction of a hydraulic drive set. I am playing with the ideal of converting the '08 to hydraulic drive to give the current gearbox/engine combo an easier time?

Thanks in anticipation

Peter Collins

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:11:50 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: 7.25 Class 08 Shunter


There was an article or two in Modeltec or Live Steam magazine about a year ago on hydraulic basics. If I find the exact information I'll pass it along.

Some folks in my club use an Eaton 7 or 10 hydrostatic transmission driven by a gas engine. The power is then transmitted via chain to the drive wheels. These transmissions are horizontal shaft units, very easy to install.

Stan Z.

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:51:36 -0700
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: 7 1/4" gauge "Olomana"

This is the locomotive that belonged to Gerald Best, it spent most of it's mainland life at Walt Kimball's Grizzly Flats railway? I believe Olomana translates to "Big Noise."

For those interested, on Saturday, 28 July, we will be dedicating the new narrow gauge Gallows turntable at Orange Empire in Perris, CA. We will pull Ward's Emma Nevada out of the shed and turn it for the first time, Ward will be the guest of honor. Time for the ceremony is 5 PM.

This is also our members day, with a "bring your own meat" barbeque, $5.00 for the salad, soft drinks, etc. If you would like to attend please let me know, you can either come as my guest, but be warned, I will try to recruit you into our steam program.

On Memorial Day we had a tube failure in Ventura County #2, we have started the retubing process as our flues would run out next year anyway. By this day we should have the Superheater removed and have started on flue removal.

Linc Reed-Nickerson

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 08:42:04 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: digital camera

For those of you sitting on the fence, waiting to buy a digital camera, here's a good buy. It's a refurbished Kodak DC 3200 with 1280 x 960 resolution.


I bought one a short time ago for my wife, it works great. The pictures are almost as good as my Nikon digital camera. It has a 2x zoom and it's easy to use.

Stan Z.

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:00:48 -0400
From: "Ken Wing"

Subject: Re: Drawings of Olomana

It seems to me I saw a 2 1/2" scale 7 1/4" gauge Olomana at a meet at Pennsylvania Live Steamers last year or the one before. I've also seen it photgraphed with its builder/owner in a meet writeup in either Modeltec or Live Steam since then. Presumably, this guy has some kind of drawings already.

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:09:29 -0400
From: "Ken Wing"

Subject: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

It seems to me I read recently that Ward Kimball owned Chloe, the 0-4-2 sugar plantation engine that is the prototype for the Allen Models Chloe. If he owned Olomana, as Linc suggested, then he had two plantation engines.

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:40:14 -0700
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Gerald Best owned the Olomana, he kept it a Ward's, Ward has his own plantation engine, which he has willed to Orange Empire on his passing.


Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:36:23 -0400
From: Jimmy

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

The Olomana was on display at the Smithsonian Inst. in Wash D.C. for a long while, but last time I was there (about a month ago) it was missing from the display room. I don't know if it was on loan, and now returned to it's owner, or if it was just removed from display. The remains of the Sturbridge Lion were no longer on display either.

Jimmy Baird in Virginia

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Haskey

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Of course 'Chloe' was the name of a family member. I believe in Hawaii the locomotive was know as 'Pokaa' or some such...


Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:24:57 EDT
From: BJWRR2@aol.com

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Yes, the Chloe (named after Ward's daughter) was #2 "Pokaa" at Waimanalo Plantation.

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 19:16:08 -0500
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: RE: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Ward Kimball's Chloe (named after his daughter) was originally a 0-4-2 Plantation engine called Pokaa. Kimball transformed it into it's current configuration . . . a far cry from what is was during it's working life.


Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:09:16 EDT
From: BJWRR2@aol.com

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

The Olomana is currently no longer on display at the Museum of American History's Railroad Hall. It was moved to the Museum of Arts & Industries for an exibit on Hawaiian Industry, to represent plantations such as Waimanalo.

Also on the move during the infamous "Great Locomotive Switch" was the Pioneer, which was moved back to Pennsylvania, as was the Jupiter (from Arts & Industries) which moved over to replace the Pioneer next to the Southern Railway locomotive.

I'll post some pictures of the Olomana that I have under the Files section.

The Olomana hard at work on the Waimanalo Plantation on Oahu. Here is Jerry Best and the Olomana at the Warner Brothers Studio Backlot. Before working with Disney, Best worked on the sound stage at Warner. He kept Olomana there, and restored it as time allowed. In this photo, the Olomana is restored and operational. But by the time Best had to move it out to Grizzly Flats, he had added the diamond stack and lettering.
Here is Olomana being lowered by forklift off ist stand at the Railroad Hall. It is now down from the stand and is being put onto rollers.
The rollers are now in place. The stack, cab, and domes have been wrapped for protection and the locomotive is now being moved out to the truck.
It has made its way outside the museum, where another forklift is waiting to lift it up onto the trailer. It has been loaded onto the trailer and in a moment the truck will be heading down the capitol mall.
Workers are now rolling the locomotive into it's new home. Franklin Odo poses with the Olomana at Arts & Industries.
The Olomana is heading down the capitol mall.

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:11:04 EDT
From: rainbowsat@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Drawings of Olomana

Tthis probably wont help but in the May June 2001 issue of live steam there is a photo of a model of Olomana at the Waushakum live steamers. To me it looks sorta like a Gene Allen Chloe.

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:13:30 EDT
From: BJWRR2@aol.com

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

This is the history the Smithsonian has down about Olomana:

The Olomana spent 62 seasons working on a Hawaiian sugar plantation on the island of Oahu. When he saw it in California in the early 1950s, Walt Disney called the locomotive the nearest thing to a Mickey Mouse engine he had ever seen.
According to a Hawaiian dictionary, the name Olomana is a corruption of the English words "old man," but according to the donor of the engine to the Smithsonian, local Oahuans said the name referred an extinct volcano on the island and that the term meant "big noise" or "forked hill."

Whatever the case, Olomana came to the island in August 1883, after a two-month passage by sailing ship around Cape Horn from the Baldwin Locomotive Works of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It was the third locomotive to come to Oahu, in what was then the Kingdom of Hawaii. The Waimanalo Sugar Co. operated large plantations and a sugar refinery on the eastern end of the island, near Waimanalo Bay.

Olomana spent its working life pulling little four-wheeled railcars piled high with cut cane from the fields to the refinery. The engine, its sisters, and the railcars ran on panels of prefabricated track that could be easily moved about and reassembled in the cane fields as different sections were harvested. Track was "narrow gauge," i.e., three feet in width between the rails. Olomana's relatively light weight of nine tons facilitated operation on these temporary tracks. Leaving the cane fields, the temporary tracks connected with a permanent rail line to the refinery.

On the panel tracks, speed was rarely over five miles per hour. Once on the permanent track, Olomana could reach the comparatively blistering speed of 20 miles per hour.

Other than the fact of its original locale, Olomana typifies the thousands of small steam locomotives that once toiled in mills, factories, power stations, stone quarries, and lumber yards all over America. Similar engines, running also on temporary tracks, labored for general contractors at large construction sites throughout the world.
Olomana was in fact a standard Baldwin design of its size and type, one which a purchaser could order from a catalog. (Olomana is a Baldwin Class "6-8 1/3C16.") By 1883, Baldwin was the largest locomotive manufacturer in the world, producing 557 engines that year for both U.S. and foreign buyers.

One person ran the locomotive, serving as both engineer and fireman. Olomana first ran on coal. But due to the price of coal in Hawaii, the sugar company changed the fuel to oil in 1928. Mechanics removed the coal grates from the firebox and installed an oil burner. Steam pressure in the boiler was 140 pounds-per-square-inch. Occasionally, dried cane refuse was used as fuel, but this practice coated the insides of the boiler with deposits that were hard to remove and so was not often done.

Like the Pioneer, Olomana is a "tank engine," meaning that there is no separate tender. (Olomana is an "0-4-2T" type, the "T" referring to "tank.") Steam pistons are connected to the four diminutive driving wheels; a smaller pair of idler wheels helps support the back of the engine. Fuel was carried at the rear of the engine, and a 110-gallon water supply was carried in the U-shaped "saddle tank" that is draped over the boiler.

Olomana witnessed the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. Three years later the Waimanalo Sugar Co. began converting its cane-haulage to trucks, and Olomana was summarily retired.
After the war ended, a railroad buff and historian named Gerald M. Best, of Beverly Hills, California, decided to realize a boyhood dream: he would buy his own steam locomotive -- and run it!
Jerry Best was a pioneer in perfecting sound technology and film processing for Warner Brothers Studios. He could afford to travel widely. He discovered Olomana rusting in the weeds near the Waimanalo mill in 1948 and asked if he might purchase it. Soon the decrepit little engine was eastward bound in the hold of a Matson Lines freighter.

After storage on a Hollywood backlot for a few years, Best moved Olomana in 1951 to the property of artist and animator Ward Kimball in San Gabriel, Ca. Kimball, one of the "grand old men" of Disney animation, had a private backyard narrow-gauge railroad: an enginehouse, water tower, tiny depot, a locomotive and passenger car which had formerly run in Nevada, and several hundred feet of track. Shaded by tall eucalyptus trees, Kimball's property was a celebrated landmark among rail buffs. An invitation to visit was prized -- even by Kimball's boss Walt Disney.
In 1952-53, Best and Kimball repaired and restored Olomana to jewel-like condition. In the process, Best took out the oil-fuel tank and changed the engine's fuel to wood -- mostly because Kimball's neighbors did not want black oil smoke wafting overhead. Best spent nearly $10,000 acquiring and restoring the engine, a heady sum in those days.

Disney visited San Gabriel often, delightedly donning engineer's cap and gloves and occasionally running Olomana. It was during one of those occasions that, according to Best and Kimball, Disney made his remark about the engine being entirely suitable for Mickey Mouse. Animated film lovers can recall the film, "Dumbo," in which the little steam engine "Casey Jr." struggles to start his circus train. Any resemblance between "Casey Jr." and Olomana may not be entirely coincidental. Although Olomana came to California almost a decade after "Dumbo" was made, rail-buff Kimball did much of the concept art and animation for that film.

In 1977, Best donated his labor of love to the Smithsonian, which promptly installed it in NMAH's Railroad Hall. Smithsonian Secretary S. Dillon Ripley made Jerry Best a member of the Smithson Society.
In 1999, in its second century, the engine has now left NMAH to reside in a building constructed not long before Olomana was built. There, at the Smithsonian's Arts & Industries Building, the little veteran is to become a centerpiece this spring in a new exhibit about life in Hawaii -- "From Bento to Mixed Plate: Americans of Japanese Ancestry in Multicultural Hawai'i."

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:23:40 EDT
From: BJWRR2@aol.com

Subject: Surprising Olomana News

Actually, I guess that exibit at the Arts and Industries is over...it looks like the Olomana is on loan to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania from the Smithsonian!

Visit http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/whatsnew/whatsnew.htm for more.

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:30:00 EDT
From: BJWRR2@aol.com

Subject: Ward Kimball Collection

For those interested in Ward Kimball's Grizzly Flats Railroad, you should visit the GFRR page.

Some great photos. Also some photos of Ward's toy trains and a G-scale layout of the Grizzly Flats.

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:25:21 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: Re: Drawings of Olomana

The Olomana engine in the Live Steam magazine pictures was built by Al Francis from the Finger Lakes Live Steamers in New York. This is not Allen Chloe castings as it is built to 2 1/2 or 3" scale.

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:30:49 -0700
From: John Haskey

Subject: Re: Re: Drawings of Olomana

Gene Allen advertises his 'Chloe' as 2 1/2" scale...


Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:13:38 EDT
From: GMEYER6103@AOL.Com

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Hi guy's, Back in the fall of 1960 I was over at Ward Kimball's when he and Jerry Best had both of their Baldwin plantation 0-4-2's fired up. That afternoon they double headed both of their engines on the front drawbar of the Nevada Central 2-6-0 that was in the engine house and with much slipping of the Chloe's and Olomana's drivers managed to pull the mogul out into the sun light for pictures. I was told by Ward's son, that Ward's 0-4-2 was named after Ward's little blond haired daughter who appeared to be about two years old at that time. When I saw those two little steam locomotives that day, I thought that they were the prettiest little engines I had ever seen, and I still do. I have tried to identify them in the DeGolyer catalogue but there are so many 0-4-2's listed it makes it very difficult plus they may not be listed at all. I did purchase a drawing of Ookala sugar's locomotive named "Ookala" but I believe that locomotive is a little larger than the "Olomana." The "Chloe" doesn't have a saddle tank and its boiler sets up higher than the "Olomana." I read some where a while back that the "Chloe" was much rebuilt after Ward obtained it and so it may have originally had a lower boiler with a saddle tank similar to the "Olamana" when it was built by Baldwin in I believe the builders plate said "1883".....Gary Meyer

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:43:33 -0000
From: tonyrita@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: Drawings of Olomana

I have searched and searched, but cannot find any pictures of an "Olomana" in the May June 2001 issue of Live Steam. Was it possibly in another issue or magazine?


Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:08:59 -0000
From: dlarrick@kbd-technic.com

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Old film footage of Chloe (nee Pokaa) being restored at Grizzly Flats are on the video "Chad O'Connor: A Steam Driven Man". In it, Chad relates that Ward had his own vision for the appearance of the rebuilt engine. This will soon come full circle. The former Cedar Point and Lake Erie RR #1 "Maude L" (Baldwin 1902, from Barker LePine Plantation) has been acquired by Disney and is currently being rebuilt into Disneyland RR #5, the "Ward Kimball". Although it is a 2-4-4T, not an 0-4-2T, the cylinder/driver chassis and the boiler are essentially from the same Baldwin prints and patterns. #5 is expected to go into service at Anaheim in late summer 2001.
--Denis Larrick

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:48:59 EDT
From: rainbowsat@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Drawings of Olomana

Look on page 34 photo 5 in live steam May June 2001 for the picture of Olomana.
It has 6" drivers and a working pressure of 125 psi.

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:17:52 -0000
From: tonyrita@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: Drawings of Olomana

Thanks, I should have read the article also. I am used to seeing the Olomana in its green livery, not its original black color. I see that the owner is not using the saddle tank, and the boiler appears to be larger in diameter than the actual loco.
I plan on building it as it sits now with the cow cather pilot and Balloon? stack, besides green is my favorite color.


Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:45:09 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: S.V.L.S.

What happened to the Sacramento Valley Live Steamers web site? It no longer works. Does any one know of a new site or the problems with the site temporary?
Thanks, Bob Petersen

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:10:13 -0000
From: minrail@hotmail.com

Subject: The 7.25in Gauge Society

For those of you who do not already belong to the UK based 7.25 inch Gauge Society the Summer edition, No 97, of their excellent journal is now out. It is a bumper 72 page edition too!

Phone David Everingham, in the evening only (UK time), on +44 114 2306041 to join. It is still only £15 per year. Well worth it.

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:45:21 EDT
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: The 7.25in Gauge Society

I could not find an address to send to join the club on there web site? Is it 15 pounds from the USA?

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad
Golden Gate Live Steamers

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:53:00 -0000
From: dlarrick@kbd-technic.com

Subject: Re: Ward Kimball's plantation engine

Since someone asked, I will add a clarification. There are actually TWO "Ward Kimballs". The first was a 1927 Davenport from N&S Coal in Kansas that was rebuilt for Marriott's Great America amusement park in Gurnee, Illinois around 1978 but was never used there. It then went to a private owner who traded it to Disney for the original Disneyland coaches. Disney found it too heavy for the trestles in Anaheim and too light for the trains in Orlando, so they traded it to Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio for Maude L. So if you hear of an amusement park engine named "Ward Kimball", find out if they are talking about the "first" WK or the "second" WK. Good trivia question to stump your friends.
--Denis Larrick

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:24:02 -0400
From: "Ken Wing"

Subject: Chloe/Pokaa

Since I have Allen models Chloe plans and some of the castings, I'd be interested to see photos of Pokaa "before" and Chloe "after" the makeover. Does anyone know if these exist on the Web somewhere?

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:27:11 -0000
From: stan@zdonick.com

Subject: Re: 7.25 Class 08 Shunter


I finally found the Modeltec article on "Hydraulics for Model Locomotives". It's in the January 1998 issue, Page 24.

Sorry about the delay, I had to scan through a pile of magazines before I found it. If you don't have this issue, check with your club or call George for a copy. (320) 654-0815

Stan Z.

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:45:29 -0000
From: dlarrick@kbd-technic.com

Subject: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

If you can find a copy of Jesse Conde's book "Sugar Trains", there is at least one Pokaa picture (in really bad shape after being retired) and I think one of Chloe. There are also numerous pictures of engines very similar to Pokaa, some down to 20" gage and very cute. Conde wrote two volumes. I am talking about the first volume which was fairly thick and the cover was green and blue. I've had it for twenty years, so I don't know how long it has been out of print.

--Denis Larrick

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:46:39 EDT
From: radixauto@aol.com

Subject: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

They exist in the book Sugar Trains by J.C. Conde. I could scan them if need be.
Dave s.

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:19:43 EDT
From: BJWRR2@aol.com

Subject: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

For before the makeover, there is a picture of the Pokaa as it arrived at Ward Kimball's estate in Walt Disney's Railroad Story. (By Micheal Broggie)

You might want to contact the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society...I am sure they have some more photos when it was "Pokaa" and I know for a fact they have some of "Chloe". I believe there is at least one just on their website.

Also, there was an LGB Telegram several years ago that featured Ward's Grizzly Flats Railroad.

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:02:14 EDT
From: rainbowsat@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

In Walt Disney's Railroading Story by Michael Broggie there is a chapter about Ward Kimball and there is a picture of Pokaa and then Chloe in the upper left hand corner.

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:18:16 -0500
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

It's been out of print long enough to go for about $450.00 a copy on today's market for a book in good condition.


p.s. Maybe you can find one at a garage sale for 5 bucks like Jeff Badger found his . . . lucky stiff! :)

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:57:13 -0700
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

Are you talking about the book "Sugar Trains" by Conde and Best as published by Glenwood? I found a copy on my shelves.

D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:50:16 -0700
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

Hey Guys,
Lucky me, Just found copy # 365 (autographed) of Sugar Trains Pictorial plus Narrow Gauge In A Kingdom. Got to spend some time inventorying my book shelves. Maybe I can soon afford a bit of modeling.

D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:48:45 -0500
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: Re: Chloe/Pokaa


The Sugar Trains Pictorial is worth a lot . . . the Narrow Gauge In A Kingdom ( a soft cover) isn't as valuable. I think it is still available.


Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:26:25 -0400
From: "Ken Wing"

Subject: Re: Chloe/Pokaa

Thanks for the information on where to find photos. I saw the photo of Chloe in front of the Grizzly Flats station with Ward Kimball in the cab on the CPHS website. I've asked them if it would be possible to post additional before and after photos.

Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:15:38 -0000
From: minrail@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: The 7.25in Gauge Society

Regretfully no web site yet! Coming soon I am told.

Yes £15.00 is the international subscription, same as for UK as it happens. But please if you send in US dollars (cash) please send $25 to allow some extra for changing it to sterling!

Sterling Cheques or International Money Orders made payable to "The 7¼in. Gauge Society Ltd"

Address of membership secretary is

David Everingham
115 Tom Lane
S10 3PE

Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:58:27 +0100
From: "richard.shaw"

Subject: Re: Re: The 7.25in Gauge Society

The 7 1/4" web site can be found at:
www.sevenandaquartergaugesociety.com as from the 15th July

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:08:29 -0000
From: minrail@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: The 7.25in Gauge Society

You can get to this site now at the following address


Adrian Sant

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:39:44 -0000
From: "Chris Allan"

Subject: Smokebox throttle.

Hi list,

Does anyone have any suggestions as to which type ball-valve would be best to use as a smokebox throttle. Given the heat and general abuse it would suffer I am assuming that teflon seats are out?

Chris Allan

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:27:39 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Smokebox throttle.

Chris -

Actually, I have found that the Teflon® sealed ball valves work very well in smoke boxes. Remember that the bulk of the time the throttle valve is held pretty close to the temperature of the steam passing through it. The only time it gets hotter is when it is off during steam up, etc.

I have found that a stainless steel shield protecting the valve from any direct impingement of flue gasses seems to protect the valve adequately. If it can be mounted on the dry pipe directly behind the petticoat pipe, it will be pretty well protected from the direct flow of flue gasses.

I say go for it! One nice thing about smoke box throttles is that they are a lot easier to replace than dome throttles.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 00:44:47 -0000
From: kcsivils@att.net

Subject: Interested in narrow gauge

I am very new to the entire concept of "live steam" but have been a life long fan of all things narrow gauge.

I am interested in learning about narrow gauge live steam models. I have seen a few photos locomotives that run on 7.5 inch gauge track but use a scale that makes these narrow gauge locomotives.

Are there any commercially available kits for say a K-28, C-16, etc. Can anyone tell me good source to sort of get started learning about narrow gauge live steam?


Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:14:31 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Interested in narrow gauge

Yes there are. Go to http://www.livesteaming.com fro starters. Mr, Stewart has put together a great website for livesteam. Try the commercial links section and look for suppliers.
A compnay called Como Roundhouse is a big supplier of the C-19, as well as C&S Moguls. No web site but their phone # is 818-845-1660 after 4 PM Pacific time.
Ulin Locomotive Works supplies castings for the Mason Bogie locomotive if you want somthing unique. Phone # 303-466-8241
Rogers Cooke Locomotve Works in Parsippany, N.J. has castings and parts for numerous narrow gauge locomotives 2-8-0, 2-6-0-, 2-4-0 etc. Phone 973-887-0084
Allen Models in California has 2 kits fro narrow gauge locomotives. A light 2-6-0 and an 0-4-2 plantation engine.

Other narrow gauge kits are coming around all the time with the increasing popularity of larger locomotives on 7+ gauge track.
Also while on the subject of 7+ narrow gauge, don't forget to visit the 7+ Railroader website at http://www.7plusrailroader.com Good supplier links at http://www.7plusrailroader.com/resources.htm

Have fun!!

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:25:24 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Interested in narrow gauge

Don't forget RMI and the old standbys "Live Steam" and "Modeltec" magazines. I should also like to recommend joining your local Live Steam club, if there is one close to you. I have learned a lot from my club.

You might want to pick up some basic live steam books as well. http://www.discoverlivesteam.com has a good selection of starters. While these are not narrow gauge specifically, they do show you the basics.

Stan Z.

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:24:10 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Interested in narrow gauge

One thing I forgot,
LocoParts is a good supplier of accessories for narrow gauge locomotives.
Their website address is http://home.att.net/~livesteam/Locoparts.html . I'mnot sure if they have narrow gauge loco kits yet but definalty worth a look.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:26:08 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Interested in narrow gauge

kcsivils -

Most of your question has already been answere by Bruce and Stan. However, Bruce's information about Como Roundhouse Products was a bit off the mark...

Como Roundhouse Products does not have any locomotive kits, those are sold by Conway Locomotive Company, which CRP represents on the internet because Dave Conway is a friend and will never own a 'puter. We can send you a copy of CLW's catalog if you will send us your name and eMail address; send Dave $2.00 when you get it.

CLC has kits for the C&S mogul and consolidation and the D&RGW "C" series, plus some other locomotives. Dave also produces a full MCB coupler, freight and passenger car trucks, and a very nice Merced Gold Mining car (3-3/4" scale).

CRP specializes in 2-1/2" scale and larger NG cars; we supply all the metal hardware you would need to build almost any car, plus a lot of locomotive accessories. We have the 3/4 MCB coupler used on the C&S and many logging/mining lines, 3 freight car truck casting kits, and parts for the Merced Gold Mining 0-4-0 Porter. We offer a full line of locomotive accessories for the D&RGW "C" series locomotives.

CRP's catalog is currently being rewritten and upgraded (with an eye toward putting it online). At this point in time we are not in a position to suppply a number of the parts we have offered in the past, and until we have stabilized our position we are not putting out a catalog. When we do have one we will be happy to send you a copy at no charge. In the meantime, we can furnish eMailed attachment photos of any product we offer.

If you are willing to tell us a little more about yourself, perhaps we can better tailor our response to you.

Please tell us a little more about your interest in 2.5" scale 7.5" gauge:

Are you building, have built, or are planning to build a locomotive, cars, or both?

What prototype do you favor? What era do you intend to model:
Late 19th Century, Turn of the Century, or into the early 20th?

Is there a specific item or items in this scale that you are looking for?

If we need to call you, will you share your telephone #?___________________ Fax #?____________________

If you think that you will be wanting us to attach photos to future eMail, it would help to know what platform you use, MAC_____ or PC ______ and your Modem speed: Dial up _____, DSL _____, Cable ______.

You may wish to visit the website of the only 7.5" gauge layout built to 2.5" scale standards at www.jtsrr.org. The Joshua Tree & Southern RR Club has a Gn3 layout and some 5"scale 15" gauge track, with more to come.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products
2275 Huntington Drive, PMB279
San Marino, CA 91108-2658
TEL/FAX 626-792-2639

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:41:46 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Interested in narrow gauge

Sorry Rudy,
I always get the two mixed up...Conway.... Como I knew they were somhow connected and I knew that they both had narrow gauge stuff. My appologies for the misinformation.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:29:39 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com
Subject: Re: Interested in narrow gauge

Bruce -

Not a problem! It gave me a chance to blow our whistle and wave our flag. I am sure that you are not the only one that is confused about our relationship. I'm not sure I understand it myself.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date sent: 20 Jul 2001 01:55:41 -0000
From: grant.a@clear.net.nz

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM

Stuff in garage, 7¼ gauge.

¾ shot of power bogie

Top view of power bogie

Side shot of power bogie

Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:23:12 -0000
From: kcsivils@att.net

Subject: 2.5" and 3.75" manufacturers.

Besides Como Roundhouse and Conway Locomotive, are there any other manufacturers of narrow gauge live steam products?

Still trying to learn what it out there! For those of you who have responded to my initial post, thank you.

Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:49:00 -0400
From: locopart

Subject: Re: 2.5" and 3.75" manufacturers.

Allen Models has the Fitchburg-Northern in 2-1/2" scale. Locoparts has fittings for this and all engines, plus a riveted tender kit for the Fit-Nor.

d orr

Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:48:05 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: 2.5" and 3.75" manufacturers.

RMI and Meg Steam both have narrow gauge engines.

Stan Z.
Message: 1

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:23:40 -0000
From: minrail@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: 2.5" and 3.75" manufacturers.

Try looking here

Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:50:02 -0000
From: kcsivils@att.net

Subject: boilers

I have looked at a few catalogs and websites that were suggested by those of you who responded to my request for help.

Now I have another question. Where do you get boilers? I am not about to attempt building something that could explode.

Maybe the boilers were in the catalogs in question and I missed them.

Help requested once again.


Kevin Sivils

Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:36:56 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Free Windows Railway Theme

Hi all,
While looking up some Canadian railway Information for a friend I stumbled on the following free download. Thought that some of you would like to have it, http://www.cs.uop.edu/~ethomas/themes/Cantrain.htm
Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:45:47 -0000
From: tomherb@swbell.net

Subject: Power Model Supply

Has anyone heard if there have been any takers on Power Model Supply from Fred's widow? Rudy? Linc?

Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:09:55 -0700
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: Power Model Supply

Nothing heard.


Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:57:55 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Power Model Supply

COMO ROUNDHOUSE PRODUCTS had a reciprocal trade agreement with Power Model Supply in which we traded some items back and forth. When Fred died, I tried to contact his widow without success.

According to sources nearer to PMS, the business was a total loss and all inventory, production capability and records were lost in the fire. It would appear that there is nothing to salvage and sell which may explain Fred's widow's reluctance to take calls or respond to correspondence.

CRP has a very few of PMS' Jurgeson Reflex Water Gauges left in inventory. We are currently launched on a project to replace that gauge with a true 2-1/2" scale Nathan Reflex Water Gauge. In CRP's opinion the Nathan is a more interesting gauge.

Estimated date for completion of the project is January 2002, since new investment casting molds need to be made, the special glass has to be manufactured, and several other special parts are needed, plus time to cast the body, face and clamps and assemble and test the gauges.

Each gauge will be tested to 300 PSIG, and we estimate the selling price to be between $125.00 and $175.00. If you think that you might want one of these very unique and easy to read gauges, send us your reservation now.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:30:47 -0400
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Power Model Supply


I had engaged Bob Paule in an effort to research any available masters for the Lucky 7 engine. It was hoped that some of these survived at a local foundry.

As many of you know Bob was hospitalized for quite some time and he has only recently returned home. Bob and Fred went back a long time. As a matter of fact I believe Bob started PMS. If anything survives it will take quite an effort to track it down since all the records are gone.

If I hear anything else I'll let the group know.


Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:46:48 +1200
From: "Robert S Logan"

Subject: Fw: Re Winson Owners.

7-plus-NGM readers, look .............

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:44 AM
From: Robert S Logan
To: COALS Distribution List
Subject: Re Winson Owners.

Hello All, I am forwarding info as I recieved,about the rise and fall of the empire.
http://www.fraserker.com/winson/mw2.htm two pages. Bob Logan in Deepest Northland, New Zealand, and it's winter.

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:36:34 -0700
From: "Ken Burns"

Subject: Re: Re: Power Model Supply

Can you imagine my surprise, when I opened the 7+ mag and found that CRP advertises all those hardware castings................when I can hardly get them out of y'all!!
Hell I dont remember paying you for the queens posts yet!

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:57:41 -0500
From: Tom Herbert

Subject: RE: Re: Power Model Supply

Several months ago, maybe three, I saw an ad in Live Steam advertising the sale of PMS by Mrs. Ellis. She was looking for someone to buy the name, and the remaining assets, and "carry on in the tradition of quality" of PMS, or words to that effect. That's why I asked. I'm still trying to decide if I want to hang onto the castings and other parts for the Maxi Lucky 7 that I have, and try to finish it, or to give it up as a project more involved than I want.

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:10:38 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Re: Power Model Supply

Tom, what scale are your castings? Please try and edit your messages to the list. They are dragging a lot of junk with them.

Tom Casper

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:14:09 -0500
From: Tom Herbert

Subject: RE: Re: Power Model Supply

The few that I have are 3 3/4" scale.