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7-Plus-NGM Digest august 2002

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:17:55 -0000
From: "gaflyer_4j6"

Subject: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



I bought the CP173 "complete" set of drawings in hopes of building, but some of the drawings are illegible, others seem missing. In my opinion, the drawings and errection plans are not the quality I am accustomed to (in other kits I have built). In my opinion the seller/supplier seems to be unresponsive to email and US Postal mail, therefore I am VERY HESITANT to buy the kit or parts.
#1.Do you have (and can you send) copies of:D5016(F) the dimensions/notes at the top, A5024(B), and A5081?
#2. Do you have (or can you make) a list of effective drawings?
Some drawings refer to others that I did not receive.
#3. What has your experience been with the vendor?
#4. Do you have any particular advice that you would like to share about building your locomotive?
thanks. v/r
Greg

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:32:42 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Greg,
I built my CP-173 from the plans offered when the company was in California. I would say the the quality of the plans is very professional in the each part is on it's own print and an assembly print was included with each section for reference. I only found 2 errors in the plans and these were easy to remedy. Perhaps Mike (latest owner) has overlooked sending you a full set. He does have a full time day job and a family life in addition to Railroad Supply Corp., so it is necessary to give him time to reply. He will reply.

In the construcion of my locomotive, I only used the wheel and cylinder castings from Railroad Supply. To buy the parts from the supplier was too much for my wallet to bear. The rest of the parts were made from standard bar and sheet stock. A good part of the stock was bought from a local scrap metal dealer and machine shop drop-offs. I made a couple of back yard castings but with all the pattern work, casting, and finish machining on these, it would have been less work just making the parts from barstock. I changed the design of a couple of parts to make them easy to make from barstock but most of the parts can be made as described in the plans. This locomotive is a good candidate for making the parts from barstock as non of the parts are too big for a hobby sized milling machine. My milling was done on a Bridgport machine with room to spare. A 10 inch lathe would be big enough to do the turning work. There was very little specialized tooling to buy or make for this locomotive. In fact, all of the fixtures and tools that I made, except for the boiler forming blocks, fit into a small shoebox.

In what sections are the plans that you are missing. Of the 100+ sheets, finding the ones you are missing by number would be time consuming. Do you know what the title of the page is (name of the part(s))? I could copy and send the ones that you are missing.

If you have any further questions, please ask.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:23:44 -0000
From: "gaflyer_4j6"

Subject: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Thank you Nick Edwards, Bill Laird, and Bruce Mowbray for your reply!
Set 2 Driver, Dwg. D5016(F) "DRIVE WHEEL GROUP" the dimensions/notes at the top are illegibly blurred,
Set 4A CYL#1, Dwg. A5024(B) "REAR CYLINDER COVER" is illegible,
and Set 4B CYL#2, Dwg. A5081(rev?) "PISTON" has some illegible sections.
Granted one should be able to "customize" these parts, but being such a "newbie" to this, I just rather stay out of the design and engineering of a locomotive. I climbing a pretty steep learning curve as it is. Maybe too steep! Are there any builders or Live Steam clubs in Southeast Georgia (near Jacksonville, FL)?
In my next posting I will list some drawings that are referenced, but appear to be 'missing', 'superceded' or 'deleted'. I will also list the drawings that refer to these.
Airplanes and submarines aren't this complex (for me anyway).
Thanks for the help.
v/r
Greg

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:24:49 -0400
From: "don@locoparts.net"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Then you must live at/near Kings Island.....

don orr
www.locoparts.net

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: greg moore

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Don
Well Kingsland, GA actually, but Portsmouth is "home" and went to school in Suffolk, so I want to stop by your place next time I am there.

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:10:16 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Pioneer Valley Live Steamers 50th Anniversary



The Pioneer Valley Live Steamer's in Southwick, Mass are holding a special 50th Anniversary Meet on August 30, 31 and September 1st. Any Live Steamers and those interested in our hobby are welcome to attend and bring their locomotives along. We offer 31/2" and 43/4" highline and 71/4"groundline. This year we opened our newValleyLine to traffic and it adds a different feel to our club. Any hobby vendors that may wish to come are also welcome. For more info, you may contact me ar 860-283-5530 or email me or www.pvls.org/50thmeet.

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:21:32 -0400
From: "don@locoparts.net"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Greg

Sine you mentioned submarines I thought maybe you were Kings Island. I retired from the Naval Air Force as a financial amnager and had some dealing with the submarine folks there from time to time.

Glad to have you come by the next time you are here.

don orr
www.locoparts.net

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:54:06 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Portsmouth?????

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:55:20 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: Pioneer Valley Live Steamers 50th Anniversary



What is Ross Grants email addy???
Thanks,
Chris Sylvester

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:56:50 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Are you guys talking about Portsmouth New Hampshire....
I work with a couple ex navy nukes at the powerplant, in Newington....

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 04:11:02 -0400
From: "don@locoparts.net"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



No...Portsmouth, Va, and Norfolk Naval shipyard.
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"
Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders

Set 2 Driver, Dwg. D5016(F) "DRIVE WHEEL GROUP" the dimensions/notes at the top are illegibly blurred,

The only dimensions at the top of the page are:
7 1/8" + 1/64, -.000 for (7 1/2" gauge) This denotes the back to back dimension of the drivers.
There is also a change note "F" it says:
Ref. Shims between driver box and wheel wells in frame. See dwg. D5172 "F" section 1

Set 4A CYL#1, Dwg. A5024(B) "REAR CYLINDER COVER" is illegible,

My drawing is very clear.
I will scan and upload this drawing to the files section of 7-plus-NGM@yahoogroups.com
Look in the file "CP173 Drawings"

and Set 4B CYL#2, Dwg. A5081(rev?) "PISTON" has some illegible sections.

My drawing is very clear.
I will scan and upload this drawing to the files section of 7-plus-NGM@yahoogroups.com

Granted one should be able to "customize" these parts, but being such a "newbie" to this, I just rather stay out of the design and engineering of a locomotive. I climbing a pretty steep learning curve as it is. Maybe too steep! Are there any builders or Live Steam clubs in Southeast Georgia (near Jacksonville, FL)?

This is really an easy locomtive to build.

In my next posting I will list some drawings that are referenced, but appear to be 'missing', 'superceded' or 'deleted'. I will also list the drawings that refer to these.

I will help you collect the needed drawings to the best of my ability

Airplanes and submarines aren't this complex (for me anyway).
Thanks for the help.


Taken one piece at a time, locomotives aren't that complex.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: greg moore

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



I think you mean Kings Bay Submarine Base, Georgia;
Yes, that is where I work.

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:32:50 -0400
From: "don@locoparts.net"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



What can I say? Its been a while, and I'm having senior moments...yes, King's Bay. Where did I get King's Island? Who knows...I think Locoparts is begining to get to me...

don orr

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:42:08 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Don,

Have you been spending too much time on the roller coaster over at Kings Dominion?

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:52:15 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: CP173 draftsman Pat Garden...



Pat Garden, whose name appears as the draftsman on the drawing posted in ms. 2972/2973, is alive and well and enjoying retirement in the Pacific Northwest.

I have asked a friend who has Pat's email address to forward the most recent digest to him in the event he may wish to "put his oar in the water".

BTW: Those of you who digressed from the subject at hand to discuss the originator's location and other non-CP173 subjects really ought to change the "Subject" heading to better reflect the matter you are discussing; it is annoying to have to wade through your non related messages to follow the thread of the actual disucssion on the subject...

Respectfully,

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:01:45 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: BC&W Narrow Gauge Meet...



Thanks to owner Karl Hovanitz and the members of the Bitter Creek and Western Railroad for a wonderful narrow gauge meet in Arroyo Grande, CA. The members there with some really nice "Standard Gauge" locomotives were kind enough to refrain from running so that the narrwo gauge engines and rolling stock had the track mostly to themselves.

The weather cooperated and everyone there was treated to some really spectacular equipment. Hopefully someone who was not so busy videotaping the action as I was will post some photos of this wonderful event.

Thanks againg to the BC&W for their hospitality!

Rudy van Wingen, V.P.
Joshua Tree & Southern RailRoad Club & Museum
Come visit us November 8th - 11th for our Fall Meet.

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:07:57 -0400
From: "don@locoparts.net"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Naw...haven't been in a few years. We were going to Cedar point in a few weeks on our way home from Russ Eldred's but am not too sure right now...we need to as we are both suffering from roller coaster deprivation.

don

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: greg moore

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Bruce,
Thanks for scanning and posting the files. Instead of 5026 I need the following:
Drawing: CP173 Set 4A A5024(B) "REAR CYLINDER HEAD CP173" is printed with A5008 on the same page.
I NEED A CLEAN COPY OF A5024(B).

Some of the other notes I have are so lengthy I posted them under files too (as a Word document). Can you read MS Word files? Let me know if you cannot. "mag7+.doc"

Thanks again
Greg

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:02:00 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Need advice from C.P.173 builders



Greg,
I will post this one tomorrow
Drawing: CP173 Set 4A A5024(B) REAR CYLINDER HEAD CP173 is printed with A5008 on the same page.
I NEED A CLEAN COPY OF A5024(B).


I read throuh and printed out the notes. Lengthy is an understatment. I will look through my plans to see if the ones you note as missing are actually in my set. I made my locomotive using all of the plans that were sold to me and I ended up with a running locomtive with no parts missing. If the plans that you say are missing are needed in the making of this locomotive, than you should be refunded for the cost of the missing plans or be sent the plans by RR supply immediately. One or two sheets? With all of the changing of owners of RR supply, I could see one or two sheets missing. But not as many as you list.Either way, don't give up. This is a beautiful locomotive when it's done.

BTW...HRS is Hot Rolled Steel. Personally, I would make a brass tender tank. Really not that difficult and I could make you the upper rear flared corners of the tank. I have a set of dies to squeeze these from brass sheet.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:44:51 -0400
From: Richard Hubbard

Subject: Re: Pioneer Valley Live Steamers 50th Anniversary



Don't think Ross has email- he will be at the meet -try calling 203-924-5696. Not sure if he is going to Waushakum Saturday

Date: 22 Aug 2002 14:08:11 -0000
From: 7-plus-NGM

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 7-plus-NGM group.

File : /CP 173 drawings/mag7%2B Answers in blue.doc
Uploaded by : trainhead391
Description : Answers to Mag7+

Regards,

trainhead391

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:11:06 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: http://www.livesteaming.com -- Changes in Management



I was just on the Live Steamers list and noticed the following announcement:

==================================

Changes in Management

After seven years of running Live Steaming, I have decided to move along. As far as I can tell, Live Steaming is the third or fourth web site dedicated to the hobby, and I like to think it is still one of the good ones. I am particularly proud of the automated email directory and classified ads that I added in the last year. Still, it is time for some new blood to take the reins and add some freshness to the site.

Last week, Trevor Heath of Washington state agreed to take over the site. We are having some technical trouble connecting his machine to the web server, but expect that to be dealt with in a few days. I still have the email address ronstew@livesteaming.com. Trevor can now be reached at trevorheath@livesteaming.com. I will be giving him what help I can for the foreseeable future.

I will miss Live Steaming, and corresponding with so many of you. Please continue to visit this web site, and give Trevor your support.

Ron Stewart
17 August 2002

=====================================

Ron,
a great big hand of applause and a sincere thank you for all the wok you have done for us and the pleasure you have provided with that.

To you, Trevor, I have to say you will have to fill some mighty big shoes.

Good luck and the best to you all.

Regards,
Arno in Toronto

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:19:38 -0400
From: "Pat@Sn3.org"

Subject: Re: http://www.livesteaming.com -- Changes in Management



Yes, Trevor may have a job ahead of him. But based on my dealings with him on the Live Steaming site I feel he is more than up to the task. Thanks Ron, I look forward to Trevors continued work with the site.

Pat Turner

Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:19:58 -0000
From: "chef8905"

Subject: Bearings



Hi All,

Looking for some advice, hopefully based on your experience in this area. I am planning a small 7 1/4 loco, 2 1/2 inch scale, and would like to ask... what would be the best for the axle bearings... bronze bushed, ball/roller bearings or anything else that you may have used and had good results with?

Thanks

Andrew

Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:12:35 +0200
From: "Josef Wagner"

Subject: Re: Bearings



hallo andrew
i can just give you a few hints from my experiance as mechanical engineer:
1) bronze bushing is the hardes one, needs perfect allignment and hard ground surface on the axle, lubrication!
2) roller bearings - be sure that you will use one for self allignment, axial play and perfect fitting on casing and shaft, avoid penetration of dirt, moisture.
3) plastic: today you have the choice of a lot of different materials and dimensions, need no great attention during operation, is softer than normally used bushing and can bear a lot of force from driving chains.

regards
josef