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7-Plus-NGM Digest August 2004

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:08:07 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: World distance record attempts for scale ride-able trains



The link below shows some images from this past weekends distance record attempts at Train Mountain, Oregon USA.

Note: You need the entire link to view the images

http://www.livesteaming.com/Train Mountain World Record Attempts.htm

TH

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:44:21 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: The Great Oregon Steam Up



This link will take you to a group of images from this past weekends "Great Oregon Steam up" with a few images added from the much rebuilt and expanded Willow Creek Railway which shares the same grounds in Brook's, Oregon, USA

http://www.livesteaming.com/Brooks.htm

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:16:23 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: World distance record attempts for scale ride-able trains



Since you were part of the GP 60 team, did you get to run it during the trials?
Arno

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:21:17 -0000
From: "mooshiner2003"

Subject: New to group / RMI Sweet Creek



Hey guys, I just joined the NG group and was wondering if anyone is in the process of building a RMI Sweet Creek. I am looking for advice PRIOR to actually starting construction. If you have photos that you could share in the building process, machining setup suggestions, ect. Thanks in advance and a big thanks to Vance Nickerson at Nickerson Welding here in Texas for nugging and beating me sensless to where I 'made' the decission to go with a Sweet Creet :-)

Fred Rorex
Cedar Park, Texas

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:01:05 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: FW: Digest Number 1045



I learned something today :)

How to defeat e-mail systems that limit the length of links

So below you will now find the full hyperlink to the TM record attempt photo's

(notice the two Chevrons at either end of the link)


Subject: World distance record attempts for scale ride-able trains

The link below shows some images from this past weekends distance record attempts at Train Mountain, Oregon USA.

Note: You need the entire link to view the images

< http://www.livesteaming.com/Train Mountain World Record Attempts.htm >

TH

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:16:09 -0400
From: "mikell"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1045



You do it by opening a reply box and deleting the spaces then click on the link.

Taa Daa

mikell

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:26:21 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: FW: Digest Number 1045



Nice to know, Trevor, but why did you put spaces in the URL instead of under scores?
Arno

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:45:46 -0700
From: "Hugh Smith"

Subject: Re: New to group / RMI Sweet Creek



Fred,

I'm building a pre-RMI Sweet Creek, (WATO Castings). RMI changed the design a little so I won't be much help on RMI specifics. General machining, how did I do it, why did I do it, type of questions I can respond to.

Some of the mods I've made are;
Steel tires on drivers and lead truck.
Fully equalized leaf springs.
Baker valve gear.
150# Steam pressure
Stainless valve seat (port plate), Cylinder castings were 1/8" undersize.
Hardened steel crank pins and needle bearings on rods.
Upper and lower cross head guide bars, instead of upper only.

Let me know what you need and I'll try one for the gipper.

Hugh

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:56:31 -0500
From: "Thomas"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1045



This one does not work. When I click on this one I get a message that says "this page not found".
Thomas

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:18:36 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1045



Thomas

http://www.livesteaming.com/Train%20Mountain%20World%20Record%20Attempts.htm

kind regards
Dennis

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:59:37 -0600
From: "Lewis, Woody"

Subject: 3 3/4" NG Sweet Creek



Hello NG Builders,

I have noticed some folks writing regarding the Sweet Creek engine. I, too, am building a Sweet Creek. If there are enough folks out there interested, I would be willing to moderate a Sweet Creek builders group to facilitate with the exchange of ideas and suggestions...

Interested? Drop me an e-mail.

Thanks,

Woody Lewis

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:20:08 -0500
From: "Fred Rorex"

Subject: RE: 3 3/4" NG Sweet Creek



Yeah, I was thinking about right after I got my drawings and was wondering if there was a newsgroup or something for the Sweet Creek. This forum is the closest thing thus far. I'm in if and when it happens.

Fred

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:50:20 -0500
From: "Curtis Hustace"

Subject: Re: 3 3/4" NG Sweet Creek



I would love to hear your discussions about building a Sweet Creek. You can feel free to discuss here as far as I'm concerned! ;)

Curtis

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:51:03 -0400
From: George

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Woody,
This list doesn't seem so busy that you couldn't just communicate here. That way we all get to hear and if people aren't interested they can always delete all the subject heads.
George

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:09:55 -0500
From: "Thomas"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



I might be interested in trying to build the Sweet Creek engine, how ever I do not know what it looks like. Can someone post a picture of it to the list. This would help me to decide if I wanted to try one of this type, and possibly help others as well that may not be familiar with the design.
Thomas Scott

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:21:06 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Hi Thomas:

Sweet Creek is one of Roll Models' steam loco kits
http://www.rmirailworks.com/

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:27:26 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



There are some other photos at
http://users.bigpond.net.au/gabrep/wato/gallery.html

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora, California

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:40:44 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Thomas,

Check out the RMI web site and look at the pictures they have posted.
http://www.rmirailworks.com/

kind regards
Dennis

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:46:20 -0600
From: "Lewis, Woody"

Subject: RE: Digest Number 1046



Thomas,

The Sweet Creek engine is one of the more easier engines to build as it is simple compared to others. It is your basic side rod mogul 2-6-0. As Kieth Watson of Perth, Australia designed it, it has a simple rubber block suspension, although the builder can upgrade it to a leaf spring suspension. Additionally it has a Briggs style boiler (no water legs) which is easier to build than the conventional type with water legs around the firebox.

I considered the Sweet Creek when I was starting my first steam engine, but chose the Allen mogul 2-6-0 as it was 1 1/2" scale vs, the 3 3/4" scale of the Sweet Creek and it was a very simple engine to build. There are literally hundreds of them in the US. The Allen mogul was easier for me to haul around at the time. If I had any technical questions, Gene Allen was a phone call away in the domestic US vs. Kieth Watson in Perth, Australia. Also, another guy in our club had just built an Allen mogul and could help me thru the construction of mine. That was back in 1987.

Now, Roll Models in Fresno, CA http://www.rmirailworks.com/ has acquired the Sweet Creek from Kieth Watson. They produce castings, parts and drawings for it. They are located in the California so it is easy to buy parts from them and communicate with them over technical matters. So the issues I faced regarding the Sweet Creek when starting my first loco are now gone. The one matter a guy should consider is the size of the engine and rolling stock in 3 3/4" vs 1 1/2". You gotta have larger equipment to haul around the larger loco. Some guys build their rolling stock in 2 1/2" scale and it seems to be a visual fit behind the 3 3/4" engine.

On the other hand, you can ride INSIDE the Sweet Creek. It gives you more of a feel of running a real live steam loco. Additionally, the Sweet Creek is very powerfull and can haul a good size train. (The Allen Mogul can do this too for its size). Now many guys in the US are building the Sweet Creek and they are good sources of info and support for the construction of the loco. It seems the Sweet Creek is developing in popularity in the US in a big way. Like the Allen Mogul, it is a very simple engine to build.

Woody Lewis
Colorado Springs, CO

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:14:57 -0700
From: "Hugh Smith"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Picture an Allen mogul on steroids for starters. Its 7' long, 27" wide, and ~36" high. The Sweet Creek is a fictious engine so you can make it look like anything you want. Basic scale indicates 2' gauge. Mine will definitely have a CS feel which is 3'6". Try RMI's web site. I think they have a picture.

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:16:56 -0500
From: "Fred Rorex"

Subject: RE: Digest Number 1046



Here is a little easier link to go to RMI SC
Fred

http://www.rmirailworks.com/Sweet_Creek.html

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:11:26 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Cam's Two Cents Worth - Again:

The groups Two Foot Prostoletizer (probably spelled wrong) here, jarred away from moving duties dictated by wife and daughter.

I'm spurred by this flury of action and interest in the 3 3/4" scale Sweet Creek, two foot gauge prototype. I've suggested Bill and Nancy Eckert as members here as they are theowners of the Sweet Creek Mogul at Adirondack Live Steamers, The track at Saratoga. Asked that they be admitted to this group.

Great locomotive. Can't recall if I had mentioned running it a couple of weeks ago. Much changed from a normal 1 1/2' scale engine and maybe even 2 1/2" scale as I ran Russ Steves' Fitchburgh Northern Mogul as gravity becomes a factor with all that weigh " feeling" the grades. Ask Rudy vanWingen as he has run Sweet Creeks and many 2 1/2" elsewere.

I mentioned to Bill that the only mild criticism I had was that the tender doesn't look right to me having cast myself as a semi-expert on two footers. I'v been going through my plan "collection" pictures and books (all part of stuff being sorted) and am convinced that with a bit of tweeking the Sweet Creek can be massaged into a prototype look alike. "Old Star" the North Carolina two foot Mogul that ended up in Maine, and many of the SR&RL Moguls that were converted into Praires are good examples.

Yes I know that one would have to worry about cylinder ans steam chest shape, the valving, inside vrs. inside frames, counterweights on the drivers or outside the frame and so on far into the night. But since I am getting old and crotchety, how else can I get my chuckles?

And if you wish to follow Colorado Broad Gauge, how I jocularly refer to the three footers, there was a nice little Mogul on the Catskill Mountain Rwy. that needs to be modeled.

Swreel Creek is great1 I envy you all.

Cam Brown

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:32:33 -0000
From: "mooshiner2003"

Subject: RMI Sweet Creek



David Hannah III sent me two photos showing a RMI Sweet Creek. It is oil fired and was apparently having some problems and lost his fire. The Allen Mogul behind it is actually pushing the Sweet Creek in.
Fred




RMI Sweet Creek vs Allen Mogal



Sweet Creek -David Hannah III

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:36:11 -0000
From: "mooshiner2003"

Subject: RMI Sweet Creek



I uploaded a couple of Sweet Creek photos that David Hannah III sent me. This S.C. is oil fired and apparently lost his fire due to some problems. The Allen Mogul is pushing the S.C. in.
The photos are in the RMI Sweet Creek folder.

Fred

Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 00:47:14 -0000
From: "jcborshard"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



To the group's Two Foot Proselytizer from one with similarly afflicted sensibilities [and a dictionary close by]...

Bravo!

A couple of years ago I spoke briefly with Dave Skagen of Shelton, Washington. You may already know of his 3.75" SR&RL #23. Sure would be nice to add THAT to the Photos section. Also, the 6" scale [but reguaged to 15"] SR&RL #24 now running at Cleethorpes, UK.
http://www.cleethorpescoastlightrailway.co.uk/.

Regards, Jerry

Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:02:40 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aaol.com

Subject: Re: RMI Sweet Creek



They had just fired up and were trying to make it around to the fuel pump and didnt make it.

Vance

Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:03:35 -0000
From: "Willy Rowe"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Just for your knowledge.
Bob Egglestons Hunslet is in good hands and will be seeing her new maiden steaming at her new home here in Maine this next weekend.
I hope to be at the Fall run for the Adirondack Live Steamers.
Yes I probably will be out there at 6 am once again. Grin, as if you would want to stop a steamer.

If you are not aware of this locomotive, you can find pictures of her at the Adirondack Live Steamers website, under members projects. The seat back and tanks are available for free (you pay the shipping and wood for crating) to any one whom wants them.

Adirondack live steamer website is http://www.adirondacklivesteamers.org

-willy-

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:26:49 -0500
From: "Fred Rorex"

Subject: RE: Re: Digest Number 1046



Take pictures at the steamup and post them for us Willy.

Thanks
Fred

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:36:45 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Digest Number 1046



TFP (Two Foot Proseletizer) here. To my sorrow, I have never seen Dave Skagen's SR&RL. Must be a great model of a great locomotive. Somewhere in my stuff, still undetected are notes, plans, something on the trailing truck on these engineswhich I recall as being a tad complicard. Memory suggests that the bars foeming the truck were pivited under the frame and the side to side swing was accomodated by poivoting the journals off these bars, Don't take my word on this - await for confirmation from elsewhere. Like Dave.

Just got yelled at by daughter to get back to sorting stuff. She os a kindergarten teacher who treats her father as one of her less promising students.

I'll try one stoy about #24.. She survived the scrapping of railroad, as did the Parlor Car "Randeley" and several cars. Heard or read somewhere that someone bought her for $250. Year or two later. the Town Selectman tried to tax her value on what someone thought was a good price on the second hand market. So she got cut up for scrap.

Cam Brown

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:16:52 -0000

From: "jcborshard"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046

It's the generation, TFP, not the profession. Chauffering my mother and her friend, the friend lamented, "I used to be a mother with three daughters. Now I feel like a daughter with three mothers."

Truth be told, things could use some sorting around here, but it doesn't seem like much fun, and so far the orders haven't yet gotten very emphatic.

Interesting story about #24. So, he cut it up to spite--or maybe just to dodge--the beaurocrat. How unfortunate for all of us that he didn't have the option of donating #24 to a willing tax-exempt non-profit.

An MSN White Pages search shows Dave is still in Shelton, Washington. I will try phoning and ask about a photo of his #23.

Jerry

Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tim Jones

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1049



I came across some more pics of the sweet creek -Tim

http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/j.hudson/

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:07:08 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: New photo's



Photo's of Martin Rogers 2-6-6-2 Mallet back in steam and Al Von Rouden's B&O "Grasshopper" at Burnaby.

Progress photo's of Chris Holland's Challenger in Perth, Western Australia

Photo's of the 92 car longest train at Willow creek are at

http://www.livesteaming.com/photos/photo.html

TH

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:16:03 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: BCSME's Train Festival Pixs



This past weekend BCSME held their annual "Train Festival Meet". The meet was well attended this year with railaroaders from B.C., Washington, Oregon, and even the U.K. The weather was great and the locals turned out in large numbers to ride behind guest and home locomotives. A great time was had by all and a superb meal was served Saturday evening by the ladies of BCSME!

You can check out these pixs and more at "Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest" http://www.sscom.org/pnwls.html

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:32:36 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1049



Nice photos, and good job on the Sweet Creek!

Jim Hoback

James Hoback
Sonora, California

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:43:53 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Digest Number 1046



Jerry: I was sure (am sure) that Dave S.'s two foot proto engine is #24. She was last engine bought by the SR&RL and a bit smaller, and better looking, than the larger here and there, #23 who couldn't get over all their trackage.

Somewhere along the line, it appears that a full size for standard gauge headlight went on her smokebox. Anytime you see a picture where it appears that the headlight is as big 'round as the smokebox and boiler, good chance it is #24. I admit suffering from a bad case of rivet counting when I criticized (Bob Ousterhaus' ?) dandy Live Steam LGB scale/gauge model of #24 as having too small a headlight.

Sticking nose into other people's business, a privil;eage of the aged, would Dave's #24 trailingtruck, be fittable (is there such a word ?) under the Sweet Creek maybe supplied with a tad longer frame? An instant #24 Praire!

Back to sorting stuff. Currently worryong over 1000# plus or minus, of old sash weightd, rusty pipe, valves and porrly sorted screwa'nails nuts and bolts. Old shallow well and sump pumps, Howza 'bout a stained glass window? Tried and failed to give away last week a (never used as far as I know) cork and canvas life preserver?

TFP Brown

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:02:15 -0500
From: "Fred Rorex"

Subject: RE: Re: Digest Number 1046



How about trying this out. Not exaclty what you suggesting, but ..... hope it goes through
Fred

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:15:56 -0500
From: "Fred Rorex"

Subject: RE: Re: Digest Number 1046



Well, the photo won'tgo through the filters, so I will go post it on the board
Fred

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:58:15 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"

Subject: Sweet Creek



Added a couple more photos in page two of PHOTOS

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:23:24 -0000
From: "jcborshard"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1046



Just spoke with Dave Skagen. Right you are--#24, replicated down to every one of the 500 stay bolts and the pneumatic firebox doors. The caboose at the train's end is 12' long! [Gotta love 3.75"!] Unfortunately Dave isn't an internet user, but he will ask his friend Earl to take some digi-photos for our group. Dave also has 3.75" replicas of a 2' Shay and a Yarder Donkey [The Yarder's for sale--I'll ask specifics once photos arrive.]

failed to give away last week a cork and canvas life preserver...

If you still have the LifeSaver, would you let me pay the shipping to send it to a friend whose passion is sailing? If you are willing, we can work out the details off-list. Thanks!

Jerry

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:37:34 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Digest Number 1046



Jerry: Daughter, the only and tough one,in tomorrow. I'll clear your proposition with her. And wife.

Although it's called a life preserver, I doubt it would work. Might be a good costume for the yatch club dance.

Cam B

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:58:47 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"

Subject: Wheel and coupler standards



Does anyone have the standards for 2.5" scale??

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:18:01 -0700
From: Ken Burns

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



Contact Rudy van Wingen he should know. I measured my own couplers, 2 1/2" scale, and they measure 4 7/8" from the railhead to the center of the coupler.
Ken Burns

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:54:27 -0700
From: Peter Moseley

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



Ken:

That's too low. Centerline should be 5.4" above the rail which puts it at 26" scale height. (Unless you want to work with 1.6" scale cars....)

Peter Moseley

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:02:19 -0400
From: "mikell"

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



What I'm building is a railbus but the trucks I've seen so far have no room for a chain to connect the axels and hydraulic motor.

mikell

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:35:19 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



Dear Mikell,
How did the Prototype you are modeling connect the powere to the trucks?
Perhaps they used a gear box mounted to the axle to receive power via a drive shaft from a body mounted prime mover?
I believe the RGS 'geese' used an automotive rear axle, modified, for the first powered asle and used external chain to connect the second powered axle to the first.
The 'u-joints' in the drive shaft allowed for any turning or shifting of relative positions of the axle.
If your prototype is similar, you might consider a Tol-o-Mat right angle ofset gear box to place on the axle and receive the drive.
They are listed on the internet.
Best Regards,
William J. stewart.

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:25:10 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



Mikell,

Could you not suspend the motor between the axles and drive one or the other from the sprocket on the motor and then connect the two axles via sprockets to get four wheel drive. It may require some fancy shenanigans under the body but it should work.

kind regards
Dennis

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:01:08 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: RE: WWLS and Dave Skagen



Dave's S.R.& R.L. #24 and consist can been seen here as can a photo of the Logging Donkey

<http://www.trainweb.org/jlsrr/livesteam/pictures/ibls2000/western-washington-live-steamers/west-wa.htm>

It is a beautiful engine that runs as well as it looks.

When one drives it though, you are always worried about turning over a rail because of it's weight.

Did Dave mention if he was close to finishing the K36 he is building for a Customer in Pennsylvania?

A photo of the Shay can be seen here.

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/photocontest/2002/photos-page3.htm

TH

PS Everything Dave has built is for sale, including #24.......

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:58:59 -0400
From: "Mike Lagness"

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



The trucks I have lined up so far have the bolster just about in line with the axels so I may have to fudge something up. They may be a bit larger to fit everything. It's for hauling the public every weekend and another large car may be coupled if needed.

mikell

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:58:29 -0000
From: "a920enco"

Subject: engine Wanted



Live steam engine wanted ...7.5" gauge 1.5" scale or larger...short wheel base for tight radius, prefer located in the Northwest but will conceder all.

William

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:52:42 -0000
From: "msgreen55"

Subject: Florida/Orlando



Will be crossing the pond on 29/10/2004 for 2 week holiday - Disney etc (should keep son & heir happy)- Wondered if any one could make a suggestion as to a good railroad to visit (Well it will be my birthday while we are there!)and best time of week to visit?

Many thanks

Martin Green
UK.

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:00:44 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: engine Wanted



William

You looking for an actual steam locomotive or a diesel. Some people misuse "live steam" to represent riding railroad.

Either way checkout http://www.livesteaming.com and look at the for sale ads.

--
kind regards
Dennis

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:19:16 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: Wheel and coupler standards



Bill -

I have posted page 2 of Conway's old catalog to the files section as a PDF file. Look for posted "ConwayStds.pdf". Dave's top of rail to center line of coupler was 5.42", which is what we use at JT&S.

We use adapter couplers in several different schemes to couple to smaller and larger scale equipment.

FYI: Como Roundhouse Products now carries the full line of Conway trucks and couplers since Conway's closing.

Hope this helps.

Rudy van WIngen
JT&S RR Museum VP
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:43:14 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: engine Wanted



William, I am finishing up an Allen Mogul to 2.5'' scale that will have an oversize cab and tender but standard running gear for the tight radiuses. I am finishing up the plumbing in the next week or two and it will be ready to hit the track. Check out the web page for an old picture of it.
I also have a 2.5'' scale Mich-Cal shay underway with the frame, trucks and cylinders finished. I have trouble with AOL from time to time but I have a yahoo mail address on the web site also in case it kicks it back. As you see I am in Texas but have made the treck to Oregon several times and look forward to another. If I may be of some help please let me know.

Nickerson Welding & Repair

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:55:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tim Jones

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1053



There are some more pictures of Dave's #24 in the files section of this group. Its called Meet At Dave Skagens - Tim


Dave Skagen the Master Builder

Dave Skagen's Sandy River on the right
and Doug Wilinson's Lil Lima on left

Around the inner loop

Narrow passage but enough for a 3 1/2" scale

Inner loop

Crossing from inner to outer loop

Continuing around track

Under overpass

Under driveway tunnel

Al VonRueden waiting at the water wheel

Up 2.5% grade toward overpass

Passing No 24 which is taking on coal

Crossing driveway at grade

Heading around curve

Approaching duck pond bridge

Mallard Station - waiting area

Al again but at Mallard Station

Sandy River & Lil lima standing

Sandy River Caboose

Side view of Sandy River

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:55:31 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Florida/Orlando



Check on the web for Florida Live Steam Railroads. I assume that Hurricane Charley will leave a few thongs standind. The only ones I am familiar with are on the west coast where Charley is due to call in a few hours. Largo Central may be ok but the Family Lines down in Parish on the other side of Tampa Bay are a bit more than a tad lower.

Cam Brown

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:59:57 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Special Needs Car



Hi all,

If you go to the 7+ site you should be able to view pictures of the VIME "Wheel Chair Accessible Riding car" under the subject header above. I have pictures of it in use but have not posted any of them.

In one picture there is a close-up of a box over the front end truck. This is to counter the weight of the assist person who is in the chair over the rear truck and to hold the tie down straps that are sometimes required. The loading ramp close-up shows how the ramp is welded to bars that are in turn welded to the bottom of the rail. This allows for almost no clearance between loading ramp and car edge. The traffic cones are markers which can be placed for the towing engine driver can return to the exact stopping spot each trip. It prevents a lot of position jockeying during the run.
The car is very successful and is used annually at our "Dream Picnic" event for disabled children and families and at any time during a run day that special needs people want to ride.
There are removable handle bars that we use depending on the severity of the impairment of the rider. As is obvious some people are mildly impaired and in a standard wheelchair while other riders require more room for larger equipment and the need to remove these handles. The car is run as a one unit train to facilitate handling and loading unloading.
The ambulatory persons cars are loaded on track two when the special needs car is loading/ unloading on track one.
Ambulatory unloading is done at the far end of the station and then the train moved up to the loading position for the next run. This permits maximum passenger count and still accommodates our small train.

The design was adapted from a "Live Steam" or "Modeltec" article from the early 90s.

kind regards
Dennis

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:33:01 -0700
From: "Hugh Smith"

Subject: Soldering boiler tubes



Hi all,

I have a general question about soldering tubes in a flue sheet. Are they soldered in one at a time or is the whole flue sheet, and subsequently the tubes, heated all at once and then the solder applied? How does repair a soldered boiler tube?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm getting close to tubing a 10" Sweet Creek boiler with 3/4" tubes and I only want to do it once, whether that's soldering or rolling.

Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Hugh Smith

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:08:33 -0000
From: "Andrew"

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Hi Hugh,

Seeing as you are talking about a 10" boiler I take it that you are talking about a steel boiler. If this is the case go with rolling, it's the only way to go. Once the tubes are rolled in they go on forever... and if one should spring a leak... just roll it some more. If you manage to blow one due to low water, chip the ends of the tube off... pull it out... put in a new one and roll both ends. If you really want to get back on the track this can de done on a hot boiler (although this is a practice that I don't recommend)!!

If you are talking about a copper boiler of 10" diameter... get a pro to do it!! With just a blow torch and a few friends you will never get it to stop leaking!!

Andrew

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:33:17 -0700
From: "Hugh Smith"

Subject: Re: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Andrew,

Yes. The shell is steel and I was leaning toward rolling anyway. T just wanted another opinion in case I missed something.

Thanks for the response.

Hugh

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:50:06 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Hugh roll the tubes and forget about them. It is worth the cost to call T C Wilson company and purchase the roller and tell them if you need the close clearance model to get next to the sides. I have several different sizes from them and they work perfectly. I swaged a few but I wont even consider doing any more. I can roll a set in an Allen boiler in less than thirty minutes.

Vance Nickerson
Nickerson Welding & Repair

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:53:28 -0700
From: Peter Moseley

Subject: Re: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Roll em....

Peter Moseley

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 05:22:22 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"

Subject: Re: Special Needs Car



Dear Dennis,
Very nice and practical design.
Fromn perusing the photos, I get the impression that the two red painted 'tubes' near the ramp are intended to just touch the car sidesills to reduce or prevent tipping.
Is this impression correct?
Best Regards,
William J. Stewart.

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:38:21 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Re: Special Needs Car



William,

You are correct in your assumption. The whole system works very very well. The box on the front is filled with concrete rounds for the weight additive. The service provider rides the boat chair and is in direct contact with the special needs rider. The tubing at the loading ramp was an after thought and has made the loading / unloading time just about half of what we originally started with. The close tolerances between the car edge and the end of the loading ramp keep everything nice and smooth getting the wheelchair on and off the car. I have some video that i have to edit of the ramp in use and once I have it complete I will send to http://www.discoverlivesteam.com to be posted.

kind regards
Dennis

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:38:31 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Special Needs Car



At Over The Hill club we use a depressed center flat that was made by Chuck Stutts and works great with a wheel chair and is very easy to load and unload also to tie it down. I road in the car behind it and at no time did it seem unstable when loaded or did the chair move. If you contact him thru the OTH web site he could provide a photo of it.
Boyd Butler

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:41:13 -0000

From: "William Van Lenten"

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes

Hugh,
In the links section on our site <Narrow Gauge Builders> I have posted a link for a 3/4" copper tube roller.
Bill

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:38:14 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Thomas C. Wilson, Inc.
tcwilson.com
800-230-2636
718-729-3360
fax 718-361-2872
or email

Hope this helps.
Vance Nickerson

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:40:09 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



A six inch scale Case tractor would be my dream loco even though it is a road user it would be very useful and versatile.

Vance Nickerson

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:32:28 -0600
From: "Lewis, Woody"

Subject: RE: Soldering boiler tubes



Hi Nick,

Do you have the address and phone number for the TC Wilson company?

I am also building a Sweet Creek and want to roll in the copper flues...

Are you a member of the Southwestern Live Steamers?

Thanks,

Woody Lewis
Colorado Springs CO

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:44:37 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Woody,

Why not make your own? Rich Dean has a plan for these along with an article and pictures. He sent it to me so I'm not sure if he minds if I passed it along. I will check with him.

kind regards
Dennis

Date: 16 Aug 2004 15:40:41 -0000
From: 7-plus-NGM

Subject: New file uploaded to 7-plus-NGM



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 7-plus-NGM group.

File : /Boiler Tube Roller/TubeRoller5-8.gif
Uploaded by : cmsteamer
Description : Copper tube roller for 5/8 water tubing K wall (3/4" OD



Regards,

cmsteamer

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:59:14 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: WE HAVE STEAM!!!!!!



At 6:30 this evening the fire was started in my loco and with a nervous feeling pressure slowly started to rise until the safeties lifted and relief set in. Without missing a beat both injectors started and pumped and would drown the boiler with no problem. I held the fire for about two hours running it forward and backwards on the rollers. I hope to run it this weekend for a trial run and although there wont be any detail on the loco or tender I can have my own loco to fire for the television crew that is going to be there Sat. After such a long time building this loco it was sure a relief to have it run so good and without so much as a leak anywhere. I may be only part of the way with all the detailing yet to go it is a huge relief to know the end is in sight.

Vance Nickerson

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:38:30 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: WE HAVE STEAM!!!!!!



CONGRATULATIONS VANCE! I really look forward to seeing it run next Sat.

Will you be taking it to Annetta for the Labor Day Weekend Run? Linda wants to know if Judy is going. At the moment, it looks like Linda and I, Mark and Debbie, Mike and Barbara Westwood will all be attending. Hope you can make it.

Bill

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:05:58 -0700
From: Ken Burns

Subject: Re: WE HAVE STEAM!!!!!!



Congratulations, our engine is still about 6 to 8 months out for its first steaming. Have a great time on your first run.
Ken Burns
www.projectrgs41.org

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:00:17 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Soldering boiler tubes



Woody,

I just had a note back from Rich and I feel real Homer Simpsonish.
Doh!!!!
The detailed drawing is on the files section of this list. The tube roller drawing is in the files of this group. (TubeRoller5-8.gif) It is for 5/8 type K (.049 wall) COPPER WATER TUBING (3/4" OD). The design can be enlarged for 3/4 tubing K wall.

Thanks Rich, I forgot you were on this list also.
I get to claim brain howyoucall on this one. :o)

kind regards
Dennis

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:01:51 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"

Subject: Re: WE HAVE STEAM!!!!!!



Most hearty Congradulations on your succesful firs steam up, especially with the 'no leaks' finding. I do no tknow if it is a first but it seems like it probably is rare, usually I see a drip at some joint or other sometime from cold to hot when I watch an engine steamed up from cold.
Best Regards,
William J. Stewart.

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:19:06 -0000
From: FrolinMarek@att.net

Subject: GTLoop has new Operator



An article in today's DENVER POST newspaper confirms the sad news that a new/different operator will be trying to run trains on the Georgetown Loop starting in 2005.
----------------------------------------------

Today in the Denver Post, August 20th, 2004 issue, there is an article titled "New York firm wins Georgetown Loop contract".

Its says RailStar Corp, based in Cape Vincent, NY, has won the bid (over two other bidders) to take over the train operations in the Georgetown Loop railroad park.

This is a result of the Colorado Historical Society who owns the land, the park, and the buildings, and the current operator for the last 30 dang-long years, the Georgetown Loop Railroad Company, were unable to come to terms for an extension of their contract early this year.

So the nail is in the coffin, and the way and kind of trains we have seen run on the GT LOOP is changing. Seems our hopes and dreams, and silly idea that maybe it would come to pass, will not happen. The "bid" has been won and we will see a new train and operator next year.

If you want to see it the way it is, the way it was, the way many wish it would have stayed, you best set aside the excuses and get to Colorado before the end of the 2004 Season.

And if you have some lost hope of seeing the Shays still run there under a lease deal, just go read that line in the paper from Mark Greksa of the GTL, saying no way will they make their equipment available to a different operator.

To read the article, buy today's Denver Post, or go to...

http://denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E2343048,00.html

...or to http://www.denverpost.com and key in the word 'Georgetown' in the Search field.

I learned this information and of the article from my conversations today with my contacts at the GTL RR. And regret I am the messenger of such said news...

Frolin Marek
Marek Mountain RR
San Antonio, Texas

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:49:56 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"

Subject: Re: GTLoop has new Operator



From what I understand, not just the equipment, but the rails as well belong to the former operator.
To bad some historical societies are in it purely for the money.
The same for the Mount Dora and Tavares railroad here in Florida.
We are trying to purchase a 2-6-2 Prairie from the city of Bradenton, to put to work on this railroad.

Bill

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 04:56:46 -0400
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: RE: GTLoop has new Operator



Yes, they have an operator. But does the operator have suitable equipment to run similar trains that are running today?

Just back from Georgetown myself over the weekend.

Pat Turner, Pres. CSRR

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:26:30 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: RE: GTLoop has new Operator



After deleting references to Frolin, I had forwarded his post to the [steam_tech] Yahoogroup.
The following was posted in reply:
--------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:14:44 -0400
From: Dave
Subject: [steam_tech] GTLoop has new Operator

Arno et al:

As former Master Mechanic for Georgetown Loop and a friend of the Ashbys who have operated it for most of the previous three decades, I also regret that they were unable to reach an agreement with CHS to renew their contract. My understanding is this decision was reached several weeks ago, based on what I have heard and read. This isn't the nail in the coffin, it was buried weeks ago. The Ashbys could have chosen to continue to be part of the bidding process but didn't - I respect Lindsey Ashby so I respect his decision to drop out.

The good news is there is a new operator so the railroad won't die. Before we get our knickers in a knot, why don't we see what the new operator has to contribute? It isn't fair to him nor entirely likely that he is investing in starting this venture in order to set himself up for failure. His successful revitalization of the Belfast and Moosehead Lake demonstrates some capabilities in tourist railroading. The line which will exist there in another year or two of development won't be the Ashby GLRR, but may also be worthy in its own way.

dave

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:39:58 +0200
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Interesting Internet-Service



Hello all,

I don't know, if you have heard or know this site, but it might be interesting for the builders of you:

http://www.emachineshop.com/

BTW, I got this URL through a Vanagon-mailing-list here in Germany ;-)))

Hubert from Germany

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:15:10 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Interesting Internet-Service



Hallo Hubert,
this had been mentioned a while back in the model engineering list modeleng-list@kepler-eng.com .
It was also written up professionally in Modern Machine Shop .

Arno

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:09:49 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: 3/4 Sized Climax Couplers



Eureka! I have found it! Or, it swam to the surface to be netted.

Lo these many moons (weeks, months) ago there was a flury of discussion on NG couplers on one or another of the groups I pollute. Don't remember which group, nor the people who exprese an interest in getting a cc of subject plan.

Wife and I are moving and the new apatment has the appearance of a secondary paper mill where a couple of cars of waste paper, shipped in to be recycled, have been exploded on the siding.

I knew I had this drawing and it is now sittting under my nose..If any of you folk had asked before , or now, for a copy, I'll get some cc's made and ship them off.There may be some outragiously low charge to cover postage, packaging, custom designed mailing tube, pain and suffering,etc,etc

The National Malleable Casting Co.; The Climax Freight Coupler 3/4 Size Cleveland Ohio, June 10, 1906. Drawing No. noted; P236 .Noted at the top of the sheet; B&SR RR. It looks like the couplers on the Bridgton & Harrison (ex B&SR) all except that the knuckle is not shown to have been milled to accept a link from the old link and pin couplers.

Do not, repeat;DO NOT stay in a house for forty (actually onle 39) years without winnowing out your stuff.

Cam Brown

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:03:25 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"

Subject: Re: 3/4 Sized Climax Couplers



I would be interested in a copy for my files.
Best Regards,
WilliamJ. Stewart
International Rectifier, Inc.
222 Kansas Street, Dept 9654
El Segundo, CA 90245

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 02:29:09 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"

Subject: 4-4-0



My friends at the Hillcrest Shops have a 4-4-0 lt;12 5/8 Gauge engine> from the late 1800's Mostly restored. Will post pic of engine in photo section.



Bill

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 01:48:38 -0000
From: "Dave"

Subject: Take a look at the F&PV website...great work being done on that RR



I just went and took a look at the F&PV web site to show my wife the railroad that I'm going to get the opportunity to see this week during the National Narrow Gauge Convention (she's bummed she wont get to see it.) There has been many new photo's added showing an awsome looking Pony Truss bridge, a new roundhouse and turntable and just some great shots overall.

Their is some great work being done on that railroad. I look forward to meeting the people that work on the railroad, and seeing it first hand.

Dave Salamon
Tracy, CA

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:58:17 -0400
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: RE: Take a look at the F&PV website...great work being done on that RR



How about a link Dave, so the rest of us can see....

Pat Turner, Pres. CSRR

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 04:40:30 -0000
From: "Dave"

Subject: Re: Take a look at the F&PV website...great work being done on that RR



Here is the link,Peter Moseley posted a few months back:

http://homepage.mac.com/petermoseley

Dave Salamon
Tracy, CA

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:51:19 -0000
From: "William Van Lenten"

Subject: Re: 4-4-0



I forgot to mention this engine is looking for a new home. Anyone interested, contact the hillcrest shops.
Bill

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:55:50 -0700
From: Trevor Heath

Subject: Live Steam in South Australia



An excellent set of images including a South African 16"F", a 0-6-0 + 0-6-0 Kitson-Meyer, a Shark Nose S.A.R 4-8-2 and a D&RGW K-27 taken at a meet in Quorn, South Australia by John Lyas during August 2004 can be found here.

http://www.livesteaming.com/Quorn.htm

TH