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7-Plus-NGM Digest August 2005

Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:57:55 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: reference for laying track



this is an interesting alternative and is much less expensive for the rail. it isn't as prototype looking but will never wear out.
http://www.railsystemsco.com/Groovy%20track.htm
good luck,
fred v

Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 18:52:34 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: RE: reference for laying track



I certainly woudn't call it MUCH less expensive. It is less expensive, but last I checked, only marginally. In the past I have laid groovy for $0.90/ft, but last I checked it was about $3.80/ft, compared with $4.90/ft for aluminum rail on plastic ties. Wood ties make it even closer. Beleive me, that's a no-brainer. Spend the extra $1.10/ft for something much more permanent, and save yourself huge $$ down the road in maintenance. The breakover point for you may be different, but cost/headache breakover for me is when groovy is 50% the cost of standard methods.

Roy

Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 16:57:34 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: reference for laying track



we are buying 3/8" X 1" HRS for 20 cents a foot compaired to 80 cents a foot for alum. (that was the best price at the time). for a mile of track that starts to add up.
fred v

Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:05:08 -0500
From: Laurence Johnson

Subject: Re: Re: reference for laying track



That's the same reason I went to groovey track - make my own sleepers as well. I figure I can get, with minor upkeep, trackage to last my lifetime and spend my $$ on rolling stock

Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:48:01 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Travelling in the Mid West



Towards the end of August my wife and I will be in the vicinity of Interstate 94 then 90 travelling west towards home. We are looking for clubs to visit along the way. Needless to say St Croix railroad is on the list but we would like recommendations of places to go and people to see along that route.

What are your recommendations?

kind regards
Dennis, living in Port Alberni BC, Canada

Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 06:02:12 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: RE: RE: reference for laying track



I want to know where you're getting 3/8"x1" hot roll strap for 0.20/ft.
I'll buy it all and sell it as scrap here in Utah! Back when steel was cheap as dirt I was getting it for $0.28/ft, and that was with a big "in" at the steel wholesaler. When steel was at it's peak price, I was quoted $0.91/ft. 20' lengths of course. I can't even transport those any more.

Roy

Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:43:31 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: RE: reference for laying track



3/8" x 1" in Toronto is currently $1.32/ft (just under a buck US) at our local Metal Supermarket.

Michael Guy.

Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:54:20 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: RE: reference for laying track



Michael,
that is the highest price supplier you could possibly find in the GTA because they specialize in small cut offs.

If you are buying a larger amount, maybe you should contact Gerry Key at his fabricating shop in Scarborough to see if he can get it cheaper.
Arno

Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:35:44 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: RE: reference for laying track



North York Iron is the best on price I can find this morning at CDN$.64/ft
Michael.

Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:02:31 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: reference for laying track



this was 3 years ago and we bought 600 lengths. i believe it's import steel. we got it from a local steel supplier in So. Alabama.
fred v

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:45:19 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Covered passenger cars on 7.25" gauge



Images of the covered passenger cars (coaches) and their trucks (bogies)from the 725" gauge Weston Park and Kyre Valley Railways in England can be found here:

www.livesteaming.com/gbcv.htm

TH

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 14:00:16 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: Covered passenger cars on 7.25" gauge



Thanks Trevor, really interesting. Do you have any details of the brake rigging under the (174) Weston Park bogie? Hard to see or photograph under there I guess. Does the yellow lever set the brakes on/off or do something else?

Regards,
Michael Guy
Toronto.

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:10:18 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Covered passenger cars on 7.25" gauge



Trevor,

Thanks very much. I will have to examine very closely when we get back.
--
kind regards
Dennis, living in Port Alberni BC, Canada

Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:11:01 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Boyd A Butler"

Subject: Coles Service



As I stated about a little over a week ago I would let everyone know how my dealings with Cole's went, I received everything that I ordered, now I did not check first, except on one item, and they had that also, so I did not pick and choose what they had and only order what they had in stock. It came quickly, less than two weeks, without any problems I ordered 28 items some duplicates, total.
Boyd Butler

Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 14:53:05 -0400
From: "Michael F. Looney"

Subject: Re: Coles Service



Boyd:
You never did say why they had to lie to me, and why would you even put my name to them in the first place this site and what we say on it is for here, but also how can someone in Nevada know what is in stock in California, there is no way that he can go and look to see if it is there, that the problem they have, plus lying.
Mike Looney

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:52:18 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: Coles Service



Hi all,

Whenever I order something from "Hobby" suppliers I always note "DO NOT BACKORDER" and they ship what they have, charge me for that and I get on with life. I have only once had a problem with a supplier and once we straightened out the fact that I had forgotten to stipulate "NO BACK ORDER" they reimbursed my credit card and we all lived happily ever after. Most are too small for us to expect everything to be in stock every time we order. Reeves UK went into receivership because they tried to carry too much product.
Let's get back to Railroading.

kind regards
Dennis, living in Port Alberni BC, Canada

Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 23:47:06 +0200
From: "Johan"

Subject: Re: Coles Service



I would like to add my 2 cents worth of commend here as well. I've ordered various articles from "Coles" and living in South Africa it was delivered 3 weeks later. All items that I requested were there. My hat off for "Coles", they're "A" for OK. I am actually dealing with them again, as we speak.
Cheers,
Johan aka Johansteam

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 23:51:03 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Images



Images from our recent visit to England can be found here:

www.livesteaming.com/gb05.htm

TH

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 23:54:14 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Re: Covered passenger cars on 7.25" gauge



All rolling stock at Weston Park is air braked. Most steam loco's of 2.5" scale and above use Westinghouse brake pumps. The diesels use electric pumps.

The lever would be to bleed the air on each truck to enable shunting etc.

TH

Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 19:13:59 -0400
From: "Michael F. Looney"

Subject: Re: Coles Service



Dennis:
I am the same way you are don't back order anything if you don't have it in stock, and this is what I did when I had order from Coles, the next thing I know was the I got the catalog but no Taps or Dies, so when I called them back on this, that is when I found out that they didn't have them, but I had been charge for them, and all of this after I had ask if they were in stock, and the man told me they were because he was looking at them in the box.
Mike Looney

Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 19:59:25 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Images



Fantastic photography of great subjects.
Thanks, Trevor.

Arno

Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:44:50 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Way Cars



Can anyone tell me the origin of the term "Way Car". I know these were used as a caboose on many narrow gauge railroads, especially mining, logging and short lines. Most did not have a cupola and they looked, and functioned, like the British "Brake Van". I am interested in learning why they got the name "Way Car".

Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas

Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:04:23 -0000
From: "Tim Edwards"

Subject: Hunslet style windows - again!



Hi there, can anyone tell me where I can get some Hunslet style window frames from. I have drawings and photos of what I want.

Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:15:01 -0700
From: "Bob & Faith"

Subject: Way Car



Hello to all,

When I worked for the Great Northern Railroad, Wenatchee to Oroville branch line, in Washington State in 1966 we had a "Way Car" as it was called placed in front of our caboose. It was a all steel box car with Timken high speed roller bearing trucks. It came equipped with standard air lines as well as steam lines. It could be coupled into a passenger train and run at their speed. This car was used to haul general freight that would be dropped off at the various depots as we went along. When we arrived at said depot two of us brakeman would load & unload the car. This way car would then be returned to Wenatchee where it would again be unloaded or reloaded and we would take it with us on our next trip. Now as for freight it could be brake shoes, coffins, mattresses, kerosene, track equipment such as barrels of spikes, spike moes, nails or whatever and even mail.

Maybe one could say that this Way Car was an early day version of the express mail car as seen on the rear of present day Amtrak passenger trains.

Hope this helps a little,

Bob

Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:37:45 -0700
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: UK Heritage railroads



Hi all,

A very dear friend of my wife and I is travelling aboard the Queen Mary to Southampton and she will be spending some time in he UK when the ship docks. She is also a steam train nut and would like to know of heritage lines that are really worth visiting. Denise and I are leaving for vacation on Saturday and we need help quick. Which railways would you suggest that Carla visit while she is in Great Britain.
Her e-mail address is so that you can send the mail right to her. Thanks in anticipation.

kind regards
Dennis, living in Port Alberni BC, Canada

Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:36:59 -0000
From: "Trevor Heath"

Subject: Re: UK Heritage railroads



I sent the follwing messgae to Carla but thought others might be interested too.

My choice would be:

The Welsh Highland Railway from Canarvon, North Wales with its 2 foot gauge SAR NG/G16 Beyer-Garratt's to the foot of Mount Snowdon. (From there one can see the Mountain rack loco's arriving at the summit)

The line is scheduled for completion to Portmadog where it will join up with the Festiniog Railway in April 2008. The best scenery is yet to come....

And, The West Somerset Railway from Minehead, 20 miles of preserved GWR branch line.

TH

Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 22:22:58 -0400
From: Mark & Nancy Milbourne

Subject: Re: Images



Trevor, thanks for taking the time and effort to post all the pictures.
Great stuff! Must have been an incredible trip!

Mark

Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 02:57:21 -0000
From: "rogernetz"

Subject: Way cars??



I have also wondered about this term that is more and more beingsubstituted for caboose. I think this is coming from the modelrailroaders. The same goes for using the term turnout for a switch. My father was a brakeman/conductor on the SantaFe for 35 years, 1937to 1972 and I don't believe I ever once heard him use either of theterms-waycar or turnout. I have many fond memories of riding withhim and drinking his caboose coffee. Thinking about this, the term"waycar coffee" just doesn't sound right does it?
Roger

Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:27:02 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Way cars??



Hi Folks:

I don't know where the name comes from, but that's what we call them on the Burlington. And diesel locomotives are "motors".....as in "I'm making a light engine movement with ten motors and a waycar", or "which way is your DP (slave) motor facing?". We had several Conductors who were expert cooks on the waycar stove. One would even take the lid off and stick a wok in the hole....he was somebody you wanted to get stopped behind :>)

I think we've even got the Santa Fe dispatchers calling them waycars/motors now, at least the ones that work the Powder River :>)

The signal rules call for "the prescribed speed through the turnout", and the Timetable that specifies the speed calls it "speed through the turnout". But....the dispatchers will also tell you to "take the power switch on hand and line it for your movement". Most people just call them "switch". And....we've got "back" tracks, "pocket" tracks, "cab" tracks, "TOFC" tracks, ad nauseum.

Most railroads have their own terminology, back East, the caboose is commonly known as the "buggy".

Mike Decker, BN Edgemont, SD

Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:46:35 -0700
From: Peter Moseley

Subject: Re: Way cars??



The keeping the "right of way" in good condition required support equipment. Hence "maintenance of way cars". MOW is a mouthful and leads to "way". Does this help?

Peter Moseley

Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:11:24 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: More on Way Cars



Many thanks to those on the list who responded to my initial inquiry on the origin of the term "way car".

I have done some additional research on my own, basically looking up the term "way car" in every compilation of railroad terms I could find. There are two separate and distinct definitions of a "way car". A summary of what I have found is this:

1. Way car is a car in a train that carries less than carload (LCL) freight which is loaded and unloaded at stops along the route.
2. Way car is another term for a caboose, just as "crummy", "hack", "doghouse," "bone-breaker," "snake wagon," "hearse", etc.

Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas

Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:35:37 -0000
From: "Dan Roskom"

Subject: Turnouts/switchs



In the Hobby trade we would refer to turnouts as such to avoid confusion between electrical switches.

Could the way car name come from having the Way Bills on board with the conductor!?

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 05:24:17 -0300
From: "Oliver T."

Subject: Re: Turnouts/switchs



The decades-long debate over which is correct - 'turnout' vs 'switch' - is largely a result of folks not listening properly and/or misreading technical articles on the subject.

I've heard brakemen say, "I've never thrown a turnout in my life!" and had modelers ask me, "Why is it called a switchstand/switch machine if it moves the turnout?"

Both make sense when you understand the following: a TURNOUT is the assembled arrangement of rails that support and guide the path of flanged wheels through diverging routes; the SWITCH is the two movable rails that actually divert the wheels.

Thus, a brakeman is perfectly correct in saying he 'throws a switch'; switchstands and switch machines are so called because they operate the switch only, and the entire device that guides locomotives and trains over diverging routes is a turnout.

And, yes, it is true that early modelers tended to be loud and pushy about the terms 'turnout' and 'switch', claiming that folks would get hopelessly confused in an article about turnout building...which was slightly insulting, to say the least.
They either ignored or didn't want to know that no self-respecting brakeman, trackman or construction engineer would ever say 'switch' when he meant 'turnout', so in the real world at least, no confusion existed.

Just like the statement that 'no modern equipment uses archbar trucks', the 'turnout'/'switch' argument turns out to be based on mere ignorance - and as Walk Kelly was wont to say - "Ignorance is Preventable".

Oliver T. WoodRails, NB

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:16:17 -0700
From: "Bob & Faith"

Subject: Turnouts



Good day to all,

Here is what I found in the Glossary of Model Railroad & Prototype Railroad Terms.

Turnout: A switch, European term for a switch

A piece of track that allows a train to go from one track to another. Referred to by number. For example a #6 turnout spreads one foot for each 6 feet of forward travel measured from the frog.

Have you ever taken a look at a switch on the railroad. Some have very short turnouts for very slow movements through the point system. Now then take a look at, for example, any main line where speed is of the most importance. The turnout is very long to allow high speed movement. Most or nearly all of these high speed electrically controlled turnouts are handled by railroad operators hundreds of miles away. On the other hand they can be unlocked and manually thrown, if one knows how to do it, but only with permission of said dispatcher who is in charge of that section of track.

It my nickles worth,

Bob

Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:32:20 -0000
From: "Dan Roskom"

Subject: Re: Timbersil



Hello all;
Just ran across a new type of treated lumber. Your supposed to be able to eat off of this stuff. Actually the add states you could eat the wood, why you would want to is beyond me..LOL

The name is Timbersil...it is infused with sodium silicate, a melted mix of sand and soda ash. The wood is kiln baked which incases the fibers in a flexable layer of innocuous glass. Appearently the amount of silicates used in the process is to small to cause harmfull dust when sawing and drilling. The company states that normal eye and respiratory gear should be used just as you would for untreated lumber.

This stuff arrives already dry, so no shrink or checking.

Carries a 40-year warrenty and is priced competitively. A 2x4 at 8-feet long of southern yellow pine is about 4.50. At 14 ties per stick, thats 32 cents per tie.

Looks like a new source of RR ties to me!!!

www.Timbersil.com to request a dealer near you.

Dan R

Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:53:06 -0400
From: Don and/or Wanda Orr

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



14 ties per 8' piece.......I think I better go back to schoollll..............I never had any math that came up with that number....closer to 4 ties per piece, and $1.12 each.

don orr
www.locoparts.net

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 17:05:09 -0700
From: "Geoff"

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



6-3/4" ties? What scale are you working in?

Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:28:36 -0500
From: lrisen@direcway.com

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



8foot X12 inches is 96 divided by 16 inches is 6 when you rip them to a 2x2 that makes 12 $4.50 divided by 12 is $.375 as i figer it

Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:11:29 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



That's not a bad price if it really lives that long.
Scaled to 9'4'' should look pretty good in 1-1/2".

At Adirondack it would be twice that much as they do not use 2" x 2" but 2" x 4" on edge. Arno

Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:29:12 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Willow Creek Railroad Meet Pixs



The past two weekends in Brooks Oregon, The Willow Creek RR held there annual meets. These meets are held in conjunction with the Antique Power Land Museum 's "Great Oregon Steam Up". The meet was well attended with several trains from the Kitsap Live Steamers Club. There was plenty of trains on the track hauling the many passengers that were waiting to ride the railroad.
A great time was had by all on their nicely designed, block signal controlled track. I have posted pixs at "Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest" http://www.sscom.org/pnwls.html

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:24:55 -0300
From: "Oliver T."

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



Nice to know 'water glass' is still around...folks usta use it to preserve eggs and modelers usta use it to hold down ballast...now it's in lumber...stuff's as old as Fahnestock clips...

Oliver T.
EggDip, NB

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:53:58 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Timbersil



It also goes in silica sand (?) to make CO2-hardening cores for sand casting.

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:13:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Keeline

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Timbersil



You can also find it in smaller volume bottles in Magic Rock Garden sets.
There they have colored pebbles with certain chemicals which grow in a dilluted sodium silicate solution. My old chemistry sets from the 1970s had "experiments" with these materials as well.

I have also heard of waterglass (common name) being used to repair chipped or broken glass but I don't know how that would be done or whether it is strictly a cosmetic, rather than functional, repair.

On another topic, my wife and I have ordered a locomotive and riding car from RealTrains.com which should be available in time for the Chula Vista Live Steamers Fall Meet (Sep 2-4).

James

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:17:26 -0000
From: "Dan Roskom"

Subject: Re: Timbersil



Ok.........
Looks like everybody uses a different size tie!

My background has been 1/8, so a scale of say 2.5 would need a little extra support perpendicular to the rail, right?

I had been using 2x2x13.5, this I belive is minimum and without the economy factor (thats 14 per 8ft stick) would be short. Perhaps 13.5 is too short for 2.5 scale. Also some feel that 2 inch just isn't deep enough for sustained resistance or ballast grip. Thus the 2x4x13.5 up to 16inch length or greater.

In the future I will endeaver to put in allllll the details right away. Oh I almost forgot 96/by7 equals 13.71 just in case their's an eagle eye math wiz out there. Also the 2 inch is called nominal dimensioning and is actually 1.5. Oh yes , if you rip a 2x4 you will get two sticks 1.5x1.75.

Is that enough school......

Your,s in railroading.....Dan R

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:57:42 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



13.71 in length!
Wot? No kerf!
;-<(

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:54:31 -0700
From: "Geoff"

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



Good sense of humor!!!!!

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:54:37 -0000
From: "chevwilliam"

Subject: Re: Timbersil



For length, he mentioned 13.5 insh length which would leave allowance for kerf.
However, what is the nominal 4 inch dimension actual measurement?
he states he can rip two 1.50x1.75 inch ties out of the nominal 2x4 section, so what is the rip kerf allowance?
Also, is this 'Timbersil' rated for use as mudsills in continious contact with the ground?
Best Regards,
William J. Stewart

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:30:34 -0400
From: Mark & Nancy Milbourne

Subject: RR's to visit in WI and IL?



Just got some preliminary plans in place for family vacation the week before labor day weekend. Will be in Lake Geneva, WI and hope to spend a day or two up in the Dells area as well. Then spend labor day weekend with friends in Naperville IL (suburban Chicago).

Coming from northeast TN through central KY and IN and Chicago in the Aug 27/28 timeframe and then back through labor day or day after.

Always looking for RR's to visit. Any suggestions?
Anybody out there represent a club or private RR we could see?

Currently on the list:
Riverside and Great Northern
Dells Live Steamers
Milwaukee Zoo
East Troy Electric RR

Thanks,
Mark

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:54:18 -0500
From: "Thomas"

Subject: Re: RR's to visit in WI and IL?



You may want to stop by the Monticello Railway Museum at Monticello, Illinois if you are going through the area. They operate mostly on weekends, but there is usually someone around during the week working on track and equipment. Someone could look at what is going on at this time. A private 7 1/2" gauge track also is located in the South Shores part of Decatur Illinois. A fellow by the name of Ken Davis owns it and lives there. He, his brother Steve, and a group of us also are building live steam engines at a shop that Steve owns in Dawson, Illinois and there is usually a group there on Saturdays from about 2 pm till 9 pm working on several 7 1/2" gauge engines as well as a 12" gauge engine.
Thomas Scott
Monticello, Illinois

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:09:51 -0500
From: Mike Gardner

Subject: Re: RR's to visit in WI and IL?



August 26,27&28 The Illinois Live Steamers are having their annual meet in the SW chicago suburbs. Check out illinoislivesteamers.com for more info

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:25:23 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE:RR's to visit in WI and IL? Digest Number 1295



I suggest the LaPorte County Steam Museum in Hesston In. See what they have at
www.hesstonvolunteers.com


Plus for big steam there is the Illinois RR museum in Union Il.
www.irm.org

By Madison is the Whiskey River RR in Marshall Ws. And at Baraboo is a train museum.
All worth a visit if u have the time.

Later:
Tom Casper

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:59:52 -0700
From: "Michael Lavrich"

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



Ten years ago when I was modeling in the relatively small scale of 1..5, 7,5 gauge I used Culp rail, a true scale 115# rail, and for ties ripped 13.5" lenghts of "2x4" into three 1 1//8 x 1 1/2 ties using a thin kerf blade. You then need 3 1/2 or 4 ties per foot, negating the economy of 21 ties per 2x4, but the track is remarkably more scale in appearance, and carried my small 0-4-2 and cars just fine. With 1" high rail, tho', small ties would probably just make the oversize rail more obvious.

With Timbersil, I would question first if it is designed to be ripped, or if this opens untreated areas of the tie to the ground.

Michael

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:26:52 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: RR's to visit in WI and IL?



i was there last month and drove to the Dells just to ride the Riverside train. it was worth the drive. a really neat place and nice ride through the woods. they had a big washout near the end of the run and are working it now.
the 7+ ga. track is on the same property. you can walk over and look at it.
fred v

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:00:11 -0000
From: "Dan Roskom"

Subject: Re: Timbersil



You guy's are a riot!!!!
Tom has done some follow up reserch that I thought he wouldn't mind me sharing with..with...well, just such a bunch as yourself's.....

Hello:

I'm sending this message blind to those who have written in the past about alternate materials for ties.

SUMMARY: Dan Roskom sent Tim Kirby a message about a new wood treatment process called TimberSIL that could be our answer to a new material for ties. So I spent a couple of days on the internet learning about it,and talking to the folks that process the lumber.

Here's what I learned:

They claim TimberSIL is a completely non-toxic, non-leaching and non-corrosive process, and treats wood that is easy to cut, suitable for direct ground contact (warranted for up to 40 years)--and above all--is perhaps the lowest cost of all the alternatives I have looked at so far.
Treated wood is natural or slightly darker brown.

Presently, only one plant in Bemidji, Minnesota produces TimberSIL treated wood. But I'm told that's about to change.

A ten foot 2x4 costs $5.10, which should produce sixteen 15 inch ties, at 32 cents per tie (Plus shipping costs). Not too bad. And, as Dan Roskom mentioned in his email, it's already baked dry, so the shipping costs will be less than for other treated wood or plastics.

I didn't ask about quantity prices for shared club purchases.

As an experiment, I ordered some 2x6 boards to saw up for tall switch ties. They should be delivered this weekend. I'll let you know what I learn.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

From what I found out so far, I have to believe that this stuff will eventually replace all the toxic, corrosive and metal-based wood treatment methods now used. It seems to do everything that the old CCA process did, but a lot better and with none of the problems. I share Dan's opinion that we probably have our new source for low-cost tie material that will work.

The plant producing TimberSIL treated wood is:

Turtle River Wood Treating
9605 Hillcrest Drive N.E.
Bemidji, MN 56601
218-586-2271
turtle@paulbunyan.net

I got a lot of information from the owner, Jim, and his wife, Gloria.
Really nice folks. The plant is located 17 miles north of Bemidji, Minnesota, on US Highway 71. They treat mostly locally-available pine woods...red pine, jack pine, etc.

The folks at Bemidji says the headquarter company web site in Virginia gets over 400 hits per day. The TimberSIL website is:
www.Timbersil.com
Not too much technical information, but a place to start.

Typing "TimberSIL" in Google got me lots of useful hits. Here is a quotation from one website summarizing different wood treatments: "TimberSIL Nontoxic Pressure-Treated Wood from Timber Treatment Technologies, LLC TimberSIL is a sodium-silicate-based pressure-treatment system for wood that relies on a mineralization process rather than toxins to prevent infestations and decay. The patented chemistry and heat-treatment process result in the infusion of microscopic glass ³crystals² throughout the wood, providing a permanent, insoluble treatment with no dusting or leaching. The treated wood is odorless and nonvolatile, is not corrosive to fasteners, does not cause excessive wear on tools, and typically has a brown color to distinguish it from other treated-wood products. TimberSIL Plus carries a 40-year warranty for outdoor applications, including ground contact. As of October 2004, this new product is not yet listed with the International Code Council; approval for use is granted by local jurisdictions."
End of Quote.

And here is a pretty good article summarizing the status of different wood-treating processes in the US.

http://lbmjournal.com/articles.pl?id=44

And one more interesting bit of info: Tim Kirby found an article describing how nature makes petrified wood. It's the same basic process used by TimberSIL. Now, according to the article, petrified wood lasts from 10 to 20 million years. Is that long enough for our railroad ties? Orchids to you, Tim.

Dan Roskom: thank you for the heads-up on TimberSIL. Now I have wood coming with which I can at least make the remaining tall ties for a several SCRR projects going. I was still looking for a few spare pieces of 0.6 retention CCA around Minneapolis, which it seems is just not available any more.It is supposedly still used for permanent wood foundations (PWF).

I also looked at a landscape timber made of ground-up salvaged plastic car parts. A 6" x 6" x 96" timber sells for about $28, and could theoretically make 96 regular ties (IF you can ignore the kerf). This would be about 30 cents per small tie. BUT, the problem is how to saw the timber, which also contains small metal particles from the autos. The big, rubber timber weighs over eighty pounds, so handling would be a big issue, especially for those of us who have entered geezerhood. And you would hafta use a carbide-tipped bandsaw to rip the timber. The company recommends cutting it with an abrasive chop saw, which has a wide kerf. Ugh! With the wide kerf,the actual yield would be about 54 ties, at a cost of about 52 cents each.
I think TimberSIL looks a lot more promising.

As ever,

Tommy Cebulla

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:05:49 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Timbersil



William,
if you too would top quote, it would have been right in your face .

Arno

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gerald Gengel

Subject: Re: RR's to visit in WI and IL?



Great stop is Wiskey River railroad in Marshall Wisconsin it's on the way to Milwaukee. There is also a old mtc G-16 running at the Story book village in the Dells.

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:39:32 -0500
From: "Thomas"

Subject: Re: RR's to visit in WI and IL?



Since you will be in the Naperville, Illinois area around Labor Day weekend, you might think about at short trip to Pontiac, Illinois to the Central States Thrashermens Park. They will be holding their annual show that weekend which starts Thursday September 1st and goes through Monday September 5th (Labor Day). The featured tractor line this year is Caterpillar. But in addition to the show there is a 15" gauge track there, where a Crown engine and possibly a Cagney engine will be in operation. They also have a 12" gauge track on which they run a train that looks like a Wabash Blue Bird or one of the other Wabash passengers trains. I am sure you would like to see the Crown engine as well as the Cagney. I sometimes help with this train as well as work in the show ground's Blacksmith shop. I also plan to have one of my model gas engines there at the exhibit and will be running it. If one is traveling South from the Chicago area on route I 55, take the exit on the North side of Pontiac at State Route 23 and go North about 1 and 1/2 miles to the show grounds and follow the signs to the parking lots.
Thomas Scott

Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:23:35 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Burnaby's Train Fest '05 @Pixs



I have just posted the pixs from last weekends "Train Festival" at BCSME's track Burnaby B.C. Canada. The weather was superb and not too warm. Each time a train ducked into the shade, it was like an air conditioner with the breeze. The weather was so nice, many ran after the evening meal which was superb. Each year BCSME has their "Train Fest" which is usually well attend from the N.W. region. Check it out if the oppurtunity arises, you'll have a great time.

http://www.sscom.org/pnwls.html

*Enjoy!*

Dan Morris

Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:00:07 -0700
From: "Arthur & Loraine Watters"

Subject: Re: Covered passenger cars



Mike
The Jolly Trolley has been around a long time I built one 6 years ago and it has been a lot of fun.
Art Watters

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:24:03 -0000
From: "nrwgauge2"

Subject: not train related but still steam



I need help with a steam wagon that i have built
It has a twin simple engine using a 3"bore by 3" stroke.
the engine is running fixed cutoff of about 80%
the boiler is a dry steel shell verticle holding about 49ltrs and has 55 19mm tubes in it.
the problem is i have enlareged the exhaust to reduce backpressure,and the performance is fantastic but know I can't supply steam for the demand....? (blower has to stay on)
the exhaust is the same set up as a traction engine
the plast pipe outlet is a single half inch outlet....as before,i am wondering if i have caused the exhaust to lose a lot of it energy by the larger exhaust (expanding) which is know 19 and 22 mm nand i am no longer creating the draught needed...
I am up a creek with out a paddle ! if anyone can help with a correct plast pipe size i would appreciate it

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:26:22 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: blast pipe size Digest Number 1298



Try making an adapter that will fit over the blast pipe that u can change the size. The one we made closed down the blast pipe and makes it bark more and doesn't seem to hurt back pressure. We can put it in a lath and enlarge the inside dimension if we wanted to go larger. Is a hunk of steel we bored 2 different size holes into to try and test. Maybe u could do a set screw set up to change sizes. Steams well also.

Later:
Tom Casper

Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:03:18 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: blast pipe size Digest Number 1298



one rule of thumb i have is that the blast area= grate area x .005
hope that helps but as suggested an interchangable one would be better.
fred v

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:50:55 -0000
From: "Rick White"

Subject: 2.5 inch scale RMI Couplers



At http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/7-plus-ngm/ and choose 2.5 inch scale RMI couplers If this link does not work, go to the bottom of this e-mail and click on the link, then go to Photos and then go to 2.5 inch scale RMI Couplers
I posted some pictures of the new RMI 2.5 inch scale couplers that Roll Models, Inc. is now shipping. I got these for my 2.5 inch scale RMI loco and for five narrow gauge flat cars that I have. These couplers have to be modified to fit the RMI locomototive coupler pocket and have the correct height.
First, some photos of the un-modified RMI 2.5 inch coupler are posted. The shank is 4.64 inches long. At the rear of the shank the height is 1.53 inches for the rear most 1.37 inches. The rest of the coupler shank is 1.18 inches high. The shank is 1.18 inches wide for its entire length. The coupler nunkle is 2.40 inches high. The coupler can be uncoupled from the bottom or the top. A cam makes the nuckle come open when the uncoupling pin is moved up sharply.



Right Side Un-Modified RMI 2.5



Front Un-Modified RMI 2.5 inch



Rear Un-Modified RMI 2.5 inch



Left Side Un-Modified RMI 2.5



Un-Mod-Bot-Nuckle-400



Bottom Right Un-Modified RMI

Second, I modified the shank to fit on my RMI locomotive and have a coupler height of 5 and 3/8 inch. The shank was first made "square" by removing the excess height at the rear of the coupler - the modification I call "square modification" in the photo section. To get the correct height and fit the RMI coupler box, the shank has to be 0.91 inches tall and not 1.18. The entire extra amount has to be removed from the top to get the coupler to be centered on 5 and 3/8 inch in my RMI coupler pocket - see the photos. With a shank of 0.91 inches there is little slop in the coupler. I made one shank only 0.80 inches for a flat car and it droops to 5.25 inches. I did not want the droop for my locomotive.
I hope this experience helps others use these couplers. And, yes, I know that I would have been better off if I had used a milling machine, but I do not have one and wanted to get the couplers mounted NOW.



Left Side RMI Modification 2.5



Right Side RMI Modification



Left Side RMI Modification 2---1.5



Right Side RMI Modification---1



Right Side with Coupler Pocket



Left Side with Coupler Pocket



Top View RMI Modification 2.5



Bottom View RMI Modification



Front View RMI Modification



RMI Coupler Pocket



Square Modification Rear View



Square Modification Side View


Rick White
LCC & FB

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:31:19 -0400
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: RE: 2.5 inch scale RMI Couplers



Thanks, that is help full. Now why didn't they make them to fit any of their stuff??? My engines have the pin blocks on each end so it won't fit them without being modified either!

Also, how much were they Rick?

Pat Turner
http://www.TurnerModelWorks.com

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:37:36 -0000
From: "Rick White"

Subject: Re: 2.5 inch scale RMI Couplers



Pat,
The couplers are about $40 each (not pair). Paul Garrin (RMI founder) is working with a foundry in Mexico to keep costs in line.
Why such an unusual size - I asked Paul, but forget his exact words. So, I am modifying them for my use. Paul showed his new coupler mount at the Southwestern Live Steamers meet at Houston Area Live Steamers track over Memorial Day this year. He puts a 3/8 inch threaded shaft in the rear of the coupler. On this shaft is one spring, then the rear (yes, rear) of the coupler pocket, then another spring, then a lock nut. The coupler functions great in this mode. However, none of us is set up to use this coupler design. And, the height (1.53 inche at the rear end) is such that it does not fit in much of any normal size rectangular tubing. Paul said it fits 1.5 by 3 inch rectangular tubing, but 1.53 inches is too big, in my estimate, to fit inside.
None the less, since most 2.5 inch scale couplers will not couple with one another, I had to standardize on one kind, and I choose RMI's since I already have an RMI locomotive.
One point I forgot to say. These castings have very good fill.
In all the grinding that I am doing, I am not finding any voids.
None. That is really excellent. They look more like I am grinding on plate steel than on a casting.

Rick White
LCC & FB

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:43:21 EDT
From: vsons@aol.com

Subject: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Hi All:

By way of introduction, I have been modeling narrow gauge in various scale/gauge combinations for a number of years, tending to move steadily up in size from HOn30" to On30" and On18", then to 7/8"n2 and Gn15", then to 1:10n18", 1:8n15", and 1:6n12". Now I am considering the leap to 1:2n15", inspired by Mike Decker’s pictures posted to the MinimumGaugeandEstateRys group. Similar to his railway, I am thinking of modeling 15" prototypes, with a typical car being a 4-wheeler about 18-20" wide and 30-36" long.

As I eye the small yard around my house, I am curious as to what the minimum radius curve would be for such rolling stock. A search of the archives identified a reference to a 9' radius curve; I wonder if anyone has tried anything sharper? My experience with Gn15" Heywood cars on 6"radius curves suggests that a 6' curve should theoretically work in 1:2 scale, but I suspect that there are additional physical considerations (such as a MUCH higher center-of-mass if someone is riding) that would affect the practical minimum. Any advice or comments on this matter would be appreciated.

Jeff Semprebon
Claremont, NH
USA

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:50:17 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: blast pipe size Digest Number 1298



just came across this too. blast dia. = 1/6 cyl. dia.
fred v

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:01:51 -0500
From: Mike Eorgoff

Subject: Re: Re: blast pipe size Digest Number 1298



The thing that I keep forgetting is: is the 1/6 cyl. dia. give the total exhaust size for both cylinders, or just one and then you need to double it for both??????

Mike Eorgoff

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:17:05 -0400
From: bruceodelberg@netscape.net

Subject: RE: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Hi Jeff,

Does 1:2n15" mean that you will be running on 7 1/2" gauge track with a scale of 6 inches to the foot (6" scale)?

Bruce

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:35:23 EDT
From: vsons@aol.com

Subject: Re: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Yes, that's the idea.

Jeff Semprebon
Claremont, NH
USA

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:42:15 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Hi Jeff:

As a practical matter, the minimum usable radius would be the one that you can stay coupled on :>) I think the Heywood couplers that I have on my first three cars are the determining factor in what radius they will take. A coupler that has more "gathering" angle, like a pocket-mounted short-shank knuckle coupler or a link and pin drawhead with a wide "mouth" and longish link would probably go around sharper curves.

Sir Arthur said that all his stock would go around 25 foot radius curves, which would be 12-1/2 feet in "our" scale. He also said that he had some 15 foot radius curves on sidings at Duffield Bank. You would need to widen the gauge some on really sharp curves, which is why I use 2-1/2" scale wheels, because they have wide treads that won't fall in between the rails :>) Your speed would affect the minimum useable radius too. As you say, the center of gravity is lots higher than on the prototype, but with slow speeds on the curves, that shouldn't cause you any problems.

Best,
Mike

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:43:02 -0400
From: RichD

Subject: Re: blast pipe size......



Mike,
other authors specify 1/7 of cyl dia for the nozzle dia. (always one cyl).
Works well for me as a starting point, then make a 4 hole nozzle with same total area as one hole.
RichD

Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:42:46 -0400
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: RE: Re: 2.5 inch scale RMI Couplers



Thanks Rick, that helps also to understand a little what they are doing.

I will have to order some to play with.

Pat Turner
http://www.TurnerModelWorks.com

Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:26:05 +1200
From: Grant & Donna Alexander

Subject: blast pipe size



I thought that the blast pipe hole diameter was supposed to be 1/7th the size of the piston on a two cylinder locomotive... Also don't forget the 1:3 and 1:6 rules regarding placing the blast pipe in relation to the petticoat skirt, and the top of the chimney respectively.

Grant Alexander
Squirrel Valley,
Cambridge, New Zealand.

Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:04:34 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: blast pipe size



i think there are so many answers to this because it also depends on the gas area of the flues and how hard the engine is worked. pick a number as a start point and adjust as needed.
fred v

Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:34:46 +0100
From: "Richard Landen"

Subject: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



I had exactly the same issue when I started thinking about laying my line out, and a lot of support from members of various groups. I know of one line in the UK that uses curves down to 12' radius on 7 1/4. He has run locos from Tinkerbelle up to a 0-4-0+0-4-0 Garratt. His observation was that the bogie locos ran a lot more smoothly on the curves. Whilst stock may be able to negotiate a technical minimum radius, this will be under very controlled conditions. The running line radius should be greater than this. My curves are laid out to 20' average radius with 18' as the target minimum. Unless you take a lot of trouble laying out the curves you will get localised curvature tighter than the average, and furthermore this can develop over time even on well laid track. If the average = the minimum, the consequences are obvious!

As Mike says use wide wheels and plenty of gauge widening. This allows the wheelsets to assume their correct position across the track so that the coning gives the required differential action without the flanges touching.
Mike and I have briefly touched on self-steering wheelsets, but that's another story!

Hope this helps

Richard Landen

Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:24:34 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: new switch



Hi the list,
I finished building a switch using movable wing rails at the frog and no check rails this afternoon (for a portable 7-1/4" track) and have posted a few photos here:


Set for mainline


Set for spur


Set for spur view 2

The mechanism is quite simple but like a lot of things took three times as long to build as I figured! The advantage derived from all this extra work is that the switch is not sensitive to wheel standards. It will take IBLS or true narrow gauge flanges with no issues about back to back or flange width dimensions.

Cheers,
Michael Guy
Toronto.

Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 21:58:31 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: [Livesteamers] track switch (turnout)



Looks good, Michael.
Arno

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:29:15 -0000
From: "fred veenschoten"

Subject: Re: new switch



interesting design. i notice the points are spring loaded. does this also make the wings spring loaded?
fred v

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:54:07 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: new switch



Hi Michael:

That is a nice piece of work. That design also eliminates the problem of running 7-1/4 and 7-1/2" on the same track.

Best,
Mike Decker
Hot Springs, SD

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:58:42 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Hi Folks:

There is a short series in Model Engineer...a year or so back....by a fellow who is building self-steering wheels on 5" gauge. If I can find them, I'll get the issue numbers. His four and eight wheel designs should work fine in the "7-inch" gauges, with a little enlargement of the wheel dimensions.

Best,
Mike

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:43:50 EDT
From: vsons@aol.com

Subject: Re: Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Mike and Richard:

Thanks for the information. The 15' Heywood prototype radius sounds encouraging, as that would only be 7.5' in 1:2 scale. Measuring the planned site, it appears that I would need about a 7 foot radius to get a circuit without running track in the driveway and without getting close enough to the fence to be picking wild grape leaves out of my teeth.

As far as a theoretical minimum, I can get 1:14 scale gauge 1 tipcar frames (much closer axle spacing than on Heywood cars) around a 9" radius, suggesting that versions scaled up for 7.5" track would need only about a 39" minimum radius. They would probably be a bit unstable and difficult to ride on, though....

As far as increasing the gauge a bit, are there any formulae and/or guidelines for how much to increase it. I'm guessing that the increase needs to be somewhat less that the tread width of the wheel used?

Jeff Semprebon
Claremont, NH
USA

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:21:26 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: new switch



It does if I gauge the rails above 7-1/2".

Michael.

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:29:37 +0200
From: "Johan"

Subject: Re: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Hi Mike,
It would be "Super" if you could scan the info and place the Pics & Drawings in the "File" section. Not all of us might have the issues involved.
Please.
Johan.

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:28:57 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: Re: new switch



It does because the springs are between the switch stand and the bell crank mechanism. In reality, there is enough friction that the springs need to be quite stiff and it would take a very heavy car to move the wings and blades against the springs.

The primary purpose of the springs is to allow the switch machine to have overtravel and ensure the blades are held firmly against the stock rails. There is actually some spring in the blade rails that has to be overcome once the wing rails are against the frog point. This requires the springs to be heavier than strictly necessary. If I paid a bit more attention to the geometry and the pivot pin location I could probably reduce the spring tension to the point where the switch would allow wrong-way movement. This is a job for the mark two re-build. :-)

Cheers,
Michael.

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:04:25 +0100
From: "richard landen"

Subject: RE: Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Also take a look at:
http://www.feldbahn.de/vorbild/tabelle/v-minr.html
and indeed the rest of that site (it has pages in English and German).

I am using 5mm (just over 3/16th) widening on 18' radius. A 4-wheel wagon with 19" wheelbase goes round that fine. You may wish to use some more! A recent article on the 7 1/4 Society magazine suggested using a coning angle of up to 10degrees. This is not done on full-size railways as it causes hunting, but it will give you the required differential action with less gauge widening. Hunting will almost certainly not be a problem on an estate railway.

Best wishes


Richard Landen
Bedfordshire, UK

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:27:23 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Hi Folks:

Since it's copyrighted material, and fairly recent at that, I can't do that.
But....when I find the articles, I believe the fellow's address is there, and I'll post that along with the relevant magazine issues.

Best,
Mike

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:59:30 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Alan Shifley's Mini Meet Pixs



I have just posted new pixs from Alan Shifley's Mini Meet in Philomath, Oregon. The weather was great and a good number of Alan's fellow HP employees attended. Alan's railroad now has a complete block signal system on his railroad. This allows bi-directional running with several trains out on the main line. Truly a neat track to run on!!

I have also corrected the pixs for the Sacramento Spring Meet pixs which were way too large for the page. They have all been corrected to allow much faster downloads even with a dial up connection.

You can check out both of these tracks and many more at "Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest"

http://www.sscom.org/pnwls.html

Enjoy!
Dan Morris

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:13:52 +0200
From: "Johan"

Subject: Re: Intro and Question on Minimum Curve Radius



Thanks Mike, it will be a great help.
Johan.

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:35:13 -0700
From: Peter Moseley

Subject: Re: Re: 2.5 inch scale RMI Couplers



Just bought a pair of RMI couplers. Nice for the price. The outside of the knuckles will need to be ground to give more clearance as there is not enough for the couplers to rotate relative to each other. They become rigid when coupled.

Peter Moseley

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:38:13 -0000
From: "Ken Roeh"

Subject: "Kenosha's" brother for sale



"Stanley Snook" is a 3 3/4" 2-4-2, 7 1/2"(inspired by Redwood Valley #4)is for sale, $9,500 located in Yakima,WA. It is 85% finished and is too big for my shop and truck. It is built just like "Kenosha" see "Live Steam" Sept. 1997. Ned to lag the boiler,pipe the engine, add any engine detail, and fuel and water tanks in the tender. If I have to finish the engine, it will be much more expensive!
Can e-mail photos, contact me at kenroeh@earthlink.net or 509-248-4449, will be out of town 9/21 thru 11/02 and 11/23 thru 12/31.

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:50:01 +0200
From:

Subject: Re: "Kenosha's" brother for sale



Ken;

Good to see you down at Brooks as we all had a great time. Did you see the long train? I left after dinner since the wife was really beat from the 90 degree heat. Seattle people aren't used to that!

Dan Morris

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:04:32 -0700
From: "Kenneth Roeh"

Subject: Re: "Kenosha's" brother for sale



You should have them now.

Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:26:53 -0500
From: "Thomas"

Subject: Re: Suggestion to all



This would be great if you wanted to "join" an other group (I noted a person has to "join" them do use this photobucket) to have to deal with and/or having to learn how to put pictures on the net, if you had a scanner or a digital camera.
Since I am one of the referenced "all" and I do not have either a scanner or a digital camera, and can not afford the digital camera or scanner, I will just have to be content with the pictures from others, that have these things, put on the 7-plus-NGM list.
Thomas

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:48:12 -0000
From: "Ken Roeh"

Subject: "Stanley Snook"



"Stanley Snook", "Kenosha's" brother is being adopted by a fellow in Calif. who promises to have him runnnig at TM next June.
Now I can finish the Davenport "critter". then back to working on my 3 3/4" ng "Falk"

Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:53:45 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: "Stanley Snook"



Just for curiosity, where did the name "Stanley Snook" come from?

Michael Guy
Toronto.

Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0700
From: "Kenneth Roeh"

Subject: Re: "Stanley Snook"



Stanley Snook was a railfan friend of mine who lived in Fresno, CA, who was a trolley and logging rairoad fan in the 1930s and 40s. Alot of his photos are in Calif RR books

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 06:12:10 -0500
From: cj.trainer@juno.com

Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion to all



If you join PhotoBucket, be sure to run your spyware program (I used Ad-Aware; it's free.) to rid your computer of the extra stuff that seems to always accompany free services. (I did join PB, and my loco is pictured at http://photobucket.com/albums/a230/ceejones, for anyone who'd like a 2.5" American.)

Charlton Jones

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:46:22 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion to all



Wow, great pictures of a great looking loco which seems to mean business (as in not taking any prisoners).
How long have you been working on it?
What is the tubes/fire box combined heating surface?
How heavy is it?
That leads into the question about your lifting traverser.
The red cylinders visible, are they nitrogen assist or hydraulic?
If hydraulic, how do you assure proper level in a vertical movement?

Finally, what is the 'lubricator' like looking brass piece in the clamp in picture #9?

It is not that I am curious, I jus' wonna know. ;->)
Arno

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:46:31 -0500
From: cj.trainer@juno.com

Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion to all



Arno I did have a couple of new hits from Ad-Aware after interfacing with PhotoBucket; that's why I mentioned it.

The lift is a hydraulic unit at the Canton, St Paul and Pacific Railway in Canton, GA that was designed and built by Julian Van Sickle. A series of roller chains and sprockets keep the whole thing level. It's quite a nice lift.

Picture #9 shows the (working) brass fire extinguisher in the passenger car. (The little stove is non-working.)

A more complete story on my American is available on Jim's page at http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/forsale/1_fulton_co/index.htm
Pat Allen started the engine in 1989. Don Fite built the boiler, so I don't have the design specifics at my fingertips. It's a good steamer and probably weighs nearly 500#, good for an American. I lagged the boiler with shower stall lead. I completed the engine and started the two coaches in 2000, and I just finished them.

Charlton

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:05:49 EDT
From: vsons@aol.com

Subject: OT? - Digital Cameras - WAS Re: Re: Suggestion to all



I think there are cheap digital cameras out there in the range of $30-50.
They do not take pictures with high enough resolution for printed enlargements, but should work fine for posting photos to others to view on a computer monitor.

Jeff Semprebon
Claremont, NH
USA

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:19:43 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion to all



Charlton,
thanks for the post.
A real beauty they are.
I searched in both of my pockets but didn't find enough spare change for them.
What a relief to see that the loco is built for 7-1/2" and I live in 7-1/4" country so, no mental anguish.

(Down, Michael, down, I know your Romulus could be made available for about 1/3 of that price if you work real hard on your sit-in Garratt but, ... .)
Arno

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:31:30 -0400
From: Michael Guy

Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion to all



Arno, it IS available but you better hurry......

Michael.

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:47:41 EDT
From: VANCENICK@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion to all



The loco looks great and should be a good runner. I have to ask details for the lead though as my narrow gauge mogul needs a few pounds added. I have hydraulic scissors lifts for sale that I designed and will lift heavy locos with no problem if any are interested.

Vance Nickerson

Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:09:46 -0000
From: "Dave"

Subject: Tom, any more photos of the SRCLRY?



Tom,

Enjoy viewing your photo's when you post them of the SRCLRY. I was curious if you have any new photo's of the railroad, maybe some new equipment being built? Even some new trackwork? Or some photo's that haven't been shown before, showing structures, bridges, and so on and so fourth, Actually anything on the railroad, my wife and I really enjoy seeing the work you guys are doing up there.

Thanks,
Dave Salamon

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:12:00 -0500
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: RE: Digest Number 1309



Dave, Not much new has been happening that I got a picture of lately. The starter went out on #25 and had to take everything out of the front end of 25 to get the flywheel off to get at the bolts for the starter. I have a few new pics so when I get home from vacation I will see what I can post. Thanks for the request as I thought I may be boring people with to much. As to new equipment, we have started working on a 8 wheel caboose and then a flat car to add to our fleet. Have the journal boxes machined and Mel is working on the axels. 3 done so far. I have been sanding parts and milling them as needed as Mel promoted me to a junior machinist apprentice. I am really green but can still learn at 60 + yrs. We (Jack and I) built a switch on the end of the branch line to drop cars past the loco and had to re-learn almost everything we forgot on how to build a switch. It doesn't look as nice as Michael's. I will get a pic of it and post. Please no laughing at us as it isn't to pretty.
There is no plans to build any structures in the near future. We have one more trestle to build but that is way off (3-4 yrs) in the future.

Later:
Tom Casper

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:56:46 -0000
From: "Dave"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1309



Tom,

Thanks for the update, enjoy vacation.

Dave Salamon

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:40:55 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Italy - Vapore Vivo Valtopina - Dr. Guido Mattoli



Cross posted.

Does anyone have an eMail address or CORRECT fax number for Dr. Guido Mattoli?

The fax and phone numbers shown in the Live Steam magazine (Sept/Oct'05) are out-of-order as per Bell Canada, but then, their Overseas Long Distance information cannot be accessed "due to reasons beyond our control".

Internet directories show some of those numbers which I tried.

Jan-Eric,
congrats for a great article.
Why does Susan in the UK get her copy 4 days before I do, being the next State/Province over form them?

Peter Ellis,
on Monday the 12th I could detour via Zagreb but would only have 30 minutes to spare. Is it worth it?

Thanks in advance,
Arno