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7-Plus-NGM Digest October 2001

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:53:48 -0700
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Grab Irons?



OK, how many of you make your own grab irons?
Is it not worth the trouble to make your own if you just want the standard size?
I made about 6 tonight and what a pain in the ___.
You can see them at: http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/Gon.htm
What do you think?
Would you make your own or buy them?
If you would buy them, from who?
Who has the best deal?

Pat Turner

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:55:09 EDT
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Grab Irons?



Pat,
Make em. I build 2 1/2" scale and find that it isn't all that difficult. I did spend time initially to make a couple of form dies. Simple but effective. I also use thick, 0.200" to 0.250" thick copper ground wire for the material. The copper forms much easier than steel and still has the rigidity to withstand little hands feeling the product on the finished car. I originally formed the parts in my 6" bench vice but now a Harbor Freight hydraulic press does the job much easier.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 17:25:04 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Truss Rod Diameter Info. needed.



I am putting on the finishing items of a SOO Caboose ($ Car), 1-1/2"scale, 7-1/2 Ga.. I have Queen Post but need to know what size cable they used for the support? Either actual diameter or the scale size.Also the Cupola has four support wires. Do any of you know what diameter they would have used?

Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 16:51:26 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Truss Rod Diameter Info. needed.



After looking at the books I have on Cabeese, it looks like the majority used 1 1/8" diameter steel (9/64" or 5/32" diameter in 1 1/2" scale would be close) for the underbody support truss rods. This dimension was taken from more than one erection drawing of various cabeese. I didn't have any dimensioned drawing of cabeese with the support bars on the cupola, but, using my good eye, I would say they are 3/4" diameter (3/32" diameter in 1 1/2" scale).

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:55:08 EDT
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: Truss Rod Diameter Info. needed.



Bruce:

Thanks for the info.

Doug Liggett (Boomer37321)
Dayton, TN.

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 23:37:39 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: Grab Irons?



Pat -

I have looked into the idea of furnishing 2-1/2" scale grab irons through Como Roundhouse Products.

There are a number of problems involved in doing it as a commercial venture. Problem #1 is the large variety of grab irons use on cars. Although the D&RGW and others had "standards", those were often ignored or modified for specific cars. It just didn't seem to be something that could be done on commercial basis.

Then I had the thought of furnishing invstment cast "ends that could be silver soldered to customer formed or custom formed round iron rod. I still think that that might be a solution, but I am not very confident that there is a decent market out there for them in the narrow 2-1/2" scale niche.

Since CRP has always specialized in offering D&RGW metal car parts I have thought of putting together kits of such grab irons for a specific box, refrigerator, stock, gondola or flat car series, but I have never seen enough volume for any such car as to justify the investment in time or money....

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 00:31:21 -0400
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: Grab Irons?



Well, an all in one kit of metal parts including grabs or of just grabs would be of interest to me. Of course I would prefer a C&S prototype though, but I take what I can get.
The car I just finished was 1 1/2" scale, but soon to start on some 2 1/2" projects.

Pat Turner
NMRA/SER Piedmont Div. Super.

Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 16:56:55 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: Grab Irons?



Perhaps offering an item like a specially shaped anvil to flatten the ends of the wire, would be a good idea. Bending the middle sections isn't really the hard part. It's getting the end shaped properly that is the trick. I used to just squeeze the end of the wire in a vise with a spacer to control the end thickness. This would squeeze both sides an equal amount. not a problem with a wooden body car. But a bit unsightly on a metal car as the irons didn't sit flat.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:03:44 +1000
From: "Paxon G&C"

Subject: Re: Re: Grab Irons?



Rudy,
We have been toying with a way to fab grabs for cars we have in work. In the past our process has been to weld a small steel plate with a pre-drilled hole for the grab iron bolt to the end of the bent grab and then to grind to shape. Produces nice grab, but is too labour intensive. If there was a source for a ready to use grab end ( could be punched from mild steel) and a jig, the steel wire could be bent to suit and the ends welded on. Could also be brass/copper and silver soldered. When we did ours before we did not attempt to simulate the bend between the rod and the end of the rod leaving that square. This was only a minor problem. The end could be a sort of oblong washer with the grab iron bolt hole. The grab iron would attach to the smaller end via a butt weld. Would be fiddlie welding via gas, but not too bad via MIG in a jig.

We are planning to have a go at it down here, so I will keep you advised.

Geo.

Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 03:01:25 -0400
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: Grab Irons?



Now here is a good idea that I was just talking with some people about yesterday in Apex, N.C.! They stated the same thing. Getting the ends right in either 1 1/2" or 2 1/2" scale is the hard part no matter if you use a hammer or a vice. The rest is easy. A jig with punch to fit might be a good seller? Put me down for one in each scale.



Pat Turner
NMRA/SER Piedmont Div. Super.

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 05:10:01 -0000
From: rhartsoe@infoave.net

Subject: New to list



I am new to this list and was excited to find it. I am getting ready to begin construction of the first 500 foot run of 7 1/2 guage railroad in my front yard. Anyone having websites on do's and dont's, how to build a trestle, etc. , would be welcome. I hate to tell you about my engine since I think most of you are steamers. I have a Sante Fe diesel powered by a 5 hp gas engine with hydraulic motors on 2 trucks. (please don't kick me off for having a diesel, I got a deal and it was all I could afford, actually it is a beauty). Power is not a problem as much as traction is. I presently have it on a friends track and it spins when we put 3 adults with their kids on the gondola and flatcar. Any suggestions for better traction besides adding weight? The grade is 3%. I added some weight which helped and when someone leans on the top applying more weight, it seems to take hold.The adults are a necessity because the kids we ride all have CP or brain damage which limits their mobility.

We have a treatment center for kids in the Blue Ridge Mtns. of NC and Bill Farmer built the engine. He sold it to me after building himself a new one. So this is the beginning of the "Miracle Mountain Railway".

Robert Hartsoe, Director (and Engineer)
Children's Hyperbarics at Miracle Mountain

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:55:43 -0000
From: "Fallenhunter"

Subject: Re: New to list



Your not the only one not running steam, I am still in the design phase of my first engine, it will be a small Fairmont style rail car (if I decide to use that body and not some other design).

As to track building. The most important thing I can suggest is that you figure out _your_ track standards, and stick to them. Train your helpers how you want it laid. As long as you stick to your plan, (and its reasonably well thought out, and you have trained yourself) it should be ok. As to learning to build track, take a couple of warm days (well in Ohio where I am at, not too many of those left), and offer to help a club, or even a private layout build. Learn hands on, and with someone who knows how to lay it.

As to specifics on track laying. Dont lay the track on the ground, use a layer of gravel, then lay the track and ballast between the rails, (My local club is not doing this, no amount of complaining will get them to change *sigh*).

I assume you have built or have access to a jig for making track sections. If not, build or borrow one, then you can work all winter (and rainy warm days even) inside making track sections, which can be laid much faster, than hand laying each tie on the ground and adding rail (much better on the back too). You will need two or three jigs, one for straight sections one for curved, and one for switches. I can supply a rough drawing (hand drawn jpg, VERY ROUGH) with some measurements if requested.

Other than that, the best advice I can suggest is to make sure you keep your cordless drills charged... Oh yea, extra batteries are a must, we work in teams of two people(each needing a cordless screw gun) screwing down the off side of the track and gaugeing it, two people leveling roadbed, one person(also needing a screw gun, trust me) laying sections down and connecting them, plus me and one or more others laying ballast (sometimes the others are my childern, ages 4, 7, 9, they do help... some). But we are a club with 100 members. You might wind up doing the whole works yourself. We lay from 40-120 feet of track in an evening, or afternoon.

A note to consider if you have not already, your neighbors might not like that in your front yard, but you might not have a choice, just a thought. You might also want to consider local building codes (as far as I know that does not apply in Ohio, but I understand they are some laws like that in Florida for example).

And the most important rule. Have fun, if its work, and your not having fun, your not doing something right.

a problem as much as traction is. I presently have it on a friends track and it spins when we put 3 adults with their kids on the gondola and flatcar. Any suggestions for better traction besides adding weight? The grade is 3%. I added some weight which helped and when someone leans on the top applying more weight, it seems to take hold. The adults are a necessity because the kids we ride all have CP or brain damage which limits their mobility.

3% grades I have no experince with, the layout out club has is at most 1.5%. Sorry cannot help you.

We have a treatment center for kids in the Blue Ridge Mtns. of NC and Bill Farmer built the engine. He sold it to me after building himself a new one. So this is the beginning of the "Miracle Mountain Railway".

Good cause, and I know they will love it. If I get down your way, I will be sure to stop and lend a hand.

Dwayne Miller
Newbie Member:
North East Ohio Live Steamers
Medina County, Ohio, USA

Disclaimer:
Opinions expressed here are mine, they do not reflect the opinons or policies of the NEOLS club.

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:47:33 -0000
From: boomer37321@yahoo.com

Subject: Blueprints required



Hey fellow 7 +ers:
Need your help in locating Blueprints in any scale for the following Engine. "Pioneer Zephyr" this Burlington train was rolled out of the Budd plant in Philadelphia on April 9 1934.Would like to build this engine in 1/8" scale for a 7 1/2" Ga.track.

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:42:45 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: New to list



Robert,
Welcome to the list. I have some info on building a backyard (frontyard in your case) railroad on my website http://www.geocities.com/trainhead391/ . Feel free to browse through it. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:00:20 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Blueprints required



Boomer:

I forwarded your request to the Burlington Route Historical Society list. Maybe somebody there can help you.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:24:40 -0700
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: New to list



Robert:

Welcome to the list. I suggest you look up the Train Mountain Encyclopedia at www.trainmountain.org for information on track building.

The answer to traction is more weight. Commercially built gasoline powered engines have 550 pounds minimum weight and can weigh up to 850 pounds. Our most successful gasoline powered engines engines weigh 1200 pounds per unit It is hard to have too much weight, though I would suggest not exceeding 300 pounds per axle. We melt lead donated by wheel balancing shops into bars that we bolt onto the frame of the engine.

Quentin Breen
Train Mountain

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:03:51 -0700
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Fitchburg Northern



On one of these lists there were several people exchanging information on building the Fitchburg Northern loco. I met a fellow, Kirk Lindstedt, at the Golden Gate Live Steamers (Berkeley, CA) fall meet yesterday. He had a nearly completed chassis and a Perry built boiler for his F.N. Very nice workmanship on both. Kirk would like to get in touch with the other builders. Perhaps one of you listening (reading) F.N. builders could contact Kirk. I told him of the livesteamers list and the 7+ list so I presume he will subscribe.

Kirk's e-mail address is klindste@earthlink.net

Regards,

Jim Hoback

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry
Sonora, California

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:29:22 +0000
From: "Chris Draper"

Subject: Re: New to list



If the engine needs to be mobile you might consider incoporating water tanks that can be drained when the engine needs to be transported, and filled on arrival at a new track. Those water towers the steamers use have a use after all!

Chris Draper
Winter Creek Tram

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:01:52 EDT
From: steamin10@aol.com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 412



Yo. Congrats on the working loco...As far as traction is concerned, weight is the cure all, and most locos can approach slightly more than their own weight in tractive effort..So a two hundred pound machine can move a ton. Now before the eyebrows go up in disbelief, remember that you can pull a child in a wagon with little effort exept to get them started rolling and stopping them.. So now that you can get all this moving ....Balance of forces and the even weighting of the wheels play a roll in getting the total weight to move and overcome inertia and starting loads on the bearings of the train...Interaction of surfaces at the wheels and moisture, oil , and dirt/debris on the rails all detract from the control we seek..
Watch out! We have had serious collisions because heavy trains do NOT stop on a dime....The most effective and easiest braking system for a heavy load is a platform or pad, under the engineers car, that is pressed to the rails with a hand lever, and bell crank that uses the weight of the car and rider to slide on the rails and slow the train...Combined with any braking from the engine makes a pretty good system that always works, and does not require the cost and repair headaches of a train system for individual cars...
This is the first system I am using under my engineers car..four posts with extension springs to raise it. (cut from a common screen door spring). and a rounded wooden plank with an applied rubber facing...A 5/8 round stock with a ball handle makes it all work..If ya need help on the track work, there is a lot of info on various sites and a small Old book by little engines, I think, that is great to get things started.. Surprisingly , trackwork can be done well with few tools and pretty crude setups..a few hand tools to build panels and use your flatcar or gon to deliver them to site, layout and bolt together..pretty simple....Acoupla volunteers and some sandwichs for bribery and a lot can be done in an afternoon with a focus on trackage....E'me If you like , I have a lot of free advice and ideas...Cheers...

Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:51:46 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Fw: [BRHSlist] Digest Number 1103 (Blueprints required)



Boomer:

I hope this helps.

Best,

Mike Decker

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 6:13 AM
From:
Subject: [BRHSlist] Digest Number 1103

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:22:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Wintner
Subject: Re: Fw: [7-plus-NGM] Blueprints required

Randy Gordon Gilmore has some great stuff at
http://rv2.rickadee.net/~zephyrus/

Including some excellent drawings.

And the January 99 MR (still available I think, see www. railpub if not) has some stuff including drawings.


Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:57:08 -0500
From: "Charlie Vlk"
Subject: RE: Fw: [7-plus-NGM] Blueprints required

Model Railroad Craftsman is still selling larger scale blackline prints of the 9900 drawings presented in RMC during the 70's. Look in the classified section of RMC or contact them directly.
Charlie

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:16:52 -0000
From: klindste@earthlink.net

Subject: New Member



Hi All,
I've just joined this group and look forward to participating.
I'm a member of Golden Gate Live Steamers, and 'am building a Fitchberg Northern (Gene Allen castings & plans). I have my frame, and valve gear 95% complete and I am ready to start the wheels. I recently purchased my Perry boiler (with the larger mogel firebox door). While it's far off, has anyone oil fired one of these?

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:15:38 -0700
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject Re: New Member:



Reply:
I understand that one version of the F-N is in 2-1/2" scale. I don't know what scale the Allen version is. What are the firebox dimensions? I'd be glad to talk to you about the atomizer used on my 2-1/2 Mike, if it's anywhere near the same proportions.
Howard Springer

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:02:38 -0000
From: klindste@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: New Member F-N



My understanding is that the Tom Rhodes FN was 2.5" and used many of the castings from the Gene Allen, 2.5" Cloe. Gene put together a complete set of castings to allow construction without so much 'kit bashing' that the Rhodes design required. I think it's quite a good starter engine because it is one of the few engines that has a complete construction commentary as well as complete drawings, and castings. My frame is built-up, and I understand that others are marketing flame cut, one piece frames. I am using the Live Steam articles as well as Gene's articles for construction. Very small differences. This is supposed to be 2.5" scale - but since there is no actual prototype, then it's sort of realative scale.

My boiler is 27.5" overall; 6 5/8 diameter; firebox is 4x4x9; 22- .5" od tubes. I would be interested in your oil burner/atomizer. I've heard different opinions that the firebox might not be big enough for atomized oil, but might work with a 'hot plate' drip system.

Thanks for the reply,
Kirk

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:44:54 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: New Member - Fitchburg Northern builder.



Kirk -

COMO ROUNDHOUSE PRODUCTS has an extensive line of 2-1/2" scale detail parts for the F-N and many "generic" parts for any N.G. loco.

Write to me offline and I will send you a list plus links to photos.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:13:55 -0000
From: "Randy Gordon-Gilmore"

Subject: Re: Blueprints required



(Sorry in advance to the group--I need to confess I'm neither a 7+'er or a narrow-guager--I just dropped in here to try to reply because my private email bounced.)

Hi boomer37321,

I saw your request for Pioneer Zephyr prints which was forwarded to the Burlington Route Historical Society email list and would like to offer to help.

By coincidence, another fellow wrote last week to ask me about 1.5" scale drawings of PZ (I'm sorry that I've taken so long to reply to you, but I didn't look closely enough at the BRHS message and thought that you were the same guy...)

I've done my layout drawings in CAD so it's not a problem to print them out in different sizes. I'm working on making a set to 1.5" scale, so it will be no problem to make two sets. But it might be a couple of weeks, because I need to buy a roll of 36"-wide paper for the plotter (and probably a new ink cartridge...) It will need to be in sections--a 1/8 scale PZ will be almost 25 feet long!

Please email me and we can discuss off-line.

Best regards,

Randy Gordon-Gilmore

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:13:09 -0600
From: "MORRIS,ROB (A-Sonoma,ex1)"

Subject: RE: Fitchburg Northern on Oil.....



Hello Kirk,

I got a chance to view your work this past weekend up at the track and it looks great! Nice Job! The last time I visited SVLS I met a gentleman there by the name of Roy Anderson and had a chance to check out his FN engine!
Wow what a great job! The best part was that it was Oil Fired and ran without a hitch! I'm sure he would be a great source of info for you but the trick is how do we get in touch with him???? You can see his engine at this web address:

http://www.sscom.org/rap.html

There was an article in Modeltec a ways back with a burner design for small fireboxes. I was able to obtain one through a friend of mine and they're pretty trick! He has a Railroad supply Mogul and used the burner for quite some time with good success. He did however run into trouble when the fuel level ran low. As the tank would run low the lack of head pressure would cause the burner to sputter. There are several ways around this problem and the easiest would be building a very large fuel bunker, and to keep it up high on the tender. The other method which I am planning to use on my Locomotive is to pressurize the fuel bunker..... Not a lot of pressure, "2~3psi," but enough to insure that I have consistent pressure at the burner where it matters the most.

The other detail that must be worked out is where and how much air you are going to let into the firebox. You will need some air intake right around the burner, then there will need to be an intake along the base of the firepan, and the last will come from the firebox door. If you can you should make the bottom intake and the firedoor adjustable.

I believe the key part in this deal would be getting in touch with Mr. Anderson! That would get you started and the rest is pretty straight forward!

Happy Steaming,

Robert Morris

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:13:00 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: New Member F-N



Point of order, Mr. Chairman: From direst experiance with the FN mogul at Airondack Jive Steamers, as well as direct hearsay evidence (oxymoron?) from Tom Rhodes, the daddy of the Fitchburgh Northern (quick everyone: where is Fitchburgh?) this free lance little beastie was not considered to be absolutely kosher 2.5 scale. Tom pegs here at a swinch (wee bit) over 2.0 say 2.2" scale, whatever you want to make it. Like a Mason Bogie that floats about on 7.25" track in this part of the universe which would look like a runt alongside the Ulrich (did I get this right, being too lazy to go upstairs and check) true 2.5" scale product, this loco , made to a compromised downward scale, is a most satisfactory ng loco still .

Cam Brown

PS: Checked out the growth of the WW&F down Maine way early this month. What a story! Search out their website for Extra Narrow Gauge.

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:29:40 +0100
From: Mike Woodroffe

Subject: Point Levers



Hi List

I need to design and build a point lever frame and the neccessary rodding for our 15" Narrow Guage railway .
We have always just used a single lever next to each point before. But we are relaying part of our station and we want to combine two point levers in to one frame.

Has anyone any recommendations as to drawing, designs etc.

Thanks

Mike
(Rhiew Valley Light Railway)

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:12:45 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Point Levers



Mike,
Since you are on that side of the pond, take a look at this page for some ideas.

http://trainweb.com/signalbox/frames/index.htm

Lots of British Railway Information ablut signals

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:44:00 +0100
From: Mike Woodroffe

Subject: Re: Point Levers



What a great site.

Thanks

Mike

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:56:34 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Sacramento Valley Live Steamers Fall Meet Pixs



This past weekend October 19th - 21st was the SVLS Fall Meet. There were 180+ Railroaders and guests in attendance with a multitude of locomotives. The weather was superb and a grand time was had by all that attended. This was the first time I had attended a SVLS Meet and I was glad I did. The club hospitality during the meet was outstanding. I would highly recommend attending a SVLS in the future, a great club!

Check out the pixs at the home page: http://www.sscom.org/, then to Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest.

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:58:19 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: 7 1/4" Society Annual AGM Meet Pixs



I have just posted pixs from The 7 1/4" Societies Annual AGM Meet (United Kingdom). Thanks to Tony Gosling & Keith Parkinson for sharing the information & pixs with me. Many of these UK Live Steamers attended IBLS 2000 last year & have been good friends ever since. A great bunch of railroaders for sure that I hope to see again soon.

Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:47:24 -0700
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: 7 1/4" Society Annual AGM Meet Pixs



Dan,
Couldn't find the link to those pictures and it took a deal of patience to wait out the full load. I'll bet you're not using a 56k modem like a lot of us still are.

D. W. Dickens

Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:33:58 -0000
From: rick_white@worldnet.att.net

Subject: Re: Sacramento Valley Live Steamers Fall Meet Pixs



See also http://www.svls.org/fallmeet01.htm for the photos of the fall meet on the SVLS web pages. There are three pages of photos.

Rick White
http://home.att.net/~lsr-nmra/rw.html

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:46:15 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Another Propane burner has been ignited



Just a note to share within our Live Steam hobby that Propane is still alive and working well in our locomotives.

The attached photo shows the result of a couple of weeks work building a burner from a design from a local live steamer. This propane burner will be used in a Romulus locomotive (a Christmas gift for a great friend in Wales, Great Britain) and it is HOT, QUIET and literally fills the firebox with BTU's.



The photo reflects a propane gas input pressure of about 1/2 psi and is very quiet. With the complete mixing of propane gas & primary air with a good mix of secondary air, the combustion is complete. There is not a whiff of unburned propane from this burner. The actual burner must be seen to appreciate the heat that is generated at 2 psi.

I realize there are other good noncommercial designs in our hobby for propane burners, similar to the one I just completed, but for those doubting Thomas's in our hobby I felt it was important to share the good news regarding a growing acceptance of propane firing in our steam locomotives.

There are no commercial parts in this burner and materials consisted of electrical conduit, 16 ga sheet metal and other steel and brass machined details. For personal reasons of the designer, I am not able to share the design but I am willing to share a 50 page construction journal I prepared consisting of a photo on each page and very brief description of each fabrication step. This is a seven part Word file and the files are rather large. If your service provider has limited file size capabilities you may not be able to receive the data.

The only caveat I would add is that the use of the offered construction journal be for personal information and reference only, no commercial use, and that details of the design cannot be included. There are too many variables between our model locomotives to prepare and release a typical or standard design which would fall into the one shoe fits all concept.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:16:54 -0800
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Another Propane burner has been ignited



As the Aussies would say, Good On ya, Doug .

To my mind the essential difference between the 7+ Narrow Gauger when I did it, and the later version, is that I covered many tracks with camera and note pad. I kept looking for that neat little idea that other guys might not have thought of and I published them .

Today, the hobby spins pretty much in what I call a flat spiral, with everybody inventing the wheel for himself.

The internet 7+NGer has the potential to restore this sharing but so far hasn't done much of it. Your efforts are a step or three in the right direction and hopefully might inspire others to do it.

Those who are fortunate enough to have discovered good lists that provide sharing know what I mean. For example: I put a question up on the On30 Conspiracy list about foam as a structural and scenic base for a mini model railroad. I've gotten all kinds of good shared experience and am still getting more.

BTW: I've run one of Doug's locos with a propane burner and it had all kinds of steam and a Dial-a-fire (My name for it,

Again, Doug ya done good.

Retirement means 6 Saturdays a week.
D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG