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7-Plus-NGM Digest October 2002

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:36:06 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re:2-1/2" Coupler Height "Standard"



Richard -

There is no "STANDARD" per se. Conway Locomotive Co. lists a height from rail head to center of coupler of 5.42", which is scaling down of the height that the D&RGW used on their equipment. Conway of course sells D&RGW "Full MCB" couplers.

If you are modeling other roads, they frequently had lower heights, and some, such as logging and mining roads even had variations from one car to another. Most of the smaller NG roads used a "3/4 MCB" coupler that was 1/4 less in volume than the FULL MCB version but would still couple with FULL MCB couplers if they were the same height. Those same roads frequently used a FULL MCB knuckle to have a greater grip face height to compensate for differences in couple heights from car to car and rough track.

Then of course many NG roads used other couplers in earlier years such as the Janney or link and pin, and many of them had combinations of knuckle and link and pin intermingled. They had a slot or slots in tne knuckle to take the link and a vertical hole in the tip of the knuckle to take a pin.

If you are intending to operate on more than one track and want to interchange with other people's equipment, I suggest that you use the 5.42" height as your standard and equip some of your couplers with slotted and pinned knuckles. Make up a couple of 1-1/2" scale couplers with shanks that will fit in your knuckles so that you can hook onto 1-1/2" scale cars.

Good luck!

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhous Products

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 01:48:38 -0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re:2-1/2" Coupler Height "Standard"



While we're on the subject;

I've seen most couplers have springs in the pockets. What is the purpose of this? I'm not aware of the prototype having springs, and apart from N-Scale, most models do not either. And why go with the larger couplers for 2.5" when 1.5" scale couplers work fine? Wouldn't it make sense to be able to couple to anything that might be on the club tracks? I take it that the 5.42" coupler height is standard for both scales.

Roy Stevens

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:25:26 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Re:2-1/2" Coupler Height "Standard"



Hi Roy:

All the full size draft gear arrangements have springs of one kind or another. A solid drawbar mounting would give you a really bad shot when the slack ran in or out. The springs cushion the draft forces, and thereby the load, helping to prevent damage to the load from slack action. There is no way to prevent slack action, particularly in long trains, so the best you can do is cushion it. A 100 car coal train will have almost a car length of slack in it. That means that the locomotive has moved fifty feet before the waycar moves. No draft gear springs would make for a really rough ride back there :>)

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:06:23 -0700
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Re:2-1/2" Coupler Height "Standard"



Roy,

Mike Decker covered the spring subject. On the coupler height, it looks like the recommendation for 2-1/2" scale is 5.42". The IBLS recommendation for 1-1/2" scale is 4.38" coupler height. Rudy van Wingen spoke of making an adapter coupler. It all depends on your personal choice. If you want to have couplers properly scaled for the 2-1/2" scale equipment and still pull 1-1/2" scale cars you will need an adapter. If the scale factor does not matter, then use 1-1/2" couplers on all of your equipment. If the occasion arises where you want to pull some 2-1/2" scale equipment with scale couplers, you will again have to adapt. It's your train, your choice.

Regards,

Jim Hoback Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:13:00 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re:2-1/2" Coupler Height "Standard"



Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?
Arno

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:45:18 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Re:2-1/2" Coupler Height "Standard"



Hi Arno:

Well....on the Road Switcher out of Gillette, Wyo. Though, to tell the truth, not on coal trains anymore :>) The Road switcher carries a couple mty boxcars around with them too....to get the required spacing between the Ammonium Nitrate, fuel oil and Propane tanks that are their usual consist, and the motors amd waycar.

Best,

Mike

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:33:58 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



Arno -

I was down in the City of Industry in the San Gabriel Valley (CA) yesterday and I saw a two engine UP consist of about 5 revenue cars with a caboose on the rear end!

It was whipping along at about 45 MPH backwards doing some switching moves; I was in the middle of a left turn and almost hit a wall watching it!

THEY are still in use!

Happy to be the bearer of glad tidings! Down with FREDS!

Rudy van Wingen

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:43:17 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Re: why go with the larger couplers for 2.5" when 1.5" scale couplers work fine?



Roy -

Three reasons:

1. Are you building an 1-1/2" scale model or a 2-1/2" scale model?
You use what the scale calls for...
2. Coupling face:
the knuckles are longer, thus giving you a greater grip face before the couplers are no longer coupled. Due to the physics of 2-1/2" scale cars vs 1-1/2" scale there is more "up and down" motion from one car to the next; the greater grip face reduces the chance of inadvertant decouplings.
3. Strength:
A 2-1/2" scale train means heavier cars and bigger loads...

Rudy van Wingen

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:51:03 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Copies needed...



May/June 1987 NG&SL Gazette, pages 42, 43, 45 & 46.

I have a Xerox copy of the article on the Merced Gold Mine Porter by Stuart L. Baker, but the copie were made without good grayscale definition and all the photographs on my copy are "black and white blobs".

I need good grayscale copies of those pages. If someone will loan me a copy of that issue I can scan it myself, or if someone could scan it for me I would be willing to pay reasonable costs.

I have a high speed modem and can process JPEG, TIFF, PICT and PDF files with no problem, and again would be willing to trade dollars or product for your time and effort...

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 22:58:18 -0500
From: pmose@sbcglobal.net

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



Up with Fred's or the RR's will die...

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:30:47 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



When my wife I were visiting Alaska, cabooses (cabeese) were still quite common, although, talk was the Alaska Railroad was going to phase them out also. My wife and I even a special caboose experience.

While waiting for the Whittier Shuttle train (the only mode of transportation between Prince William Sound and Portage, where the main highway is) we were inspecting the train. We stopped up to talk with the engineer until train time and asked if we could ride in the caboose on the trip back to Portage. He said they used to allow caboose rides but not any longer. We started talking about my 7+ gauge railroad and I could tell he was very interested. As train time approached and we parted company, the engineer said to watch our step when we climbed up on the caboose. I turned around and gave him a confused look. He said the Alaska railroad allows visiting railroad personel certain access to Alaska Railroad equipment, and smiled. Needless to say we had a great time riding the Cupola for the 30 minute 12 mile train ride. Including going through the nearly 1 mile long railroad tunnel. As it turn out, Not only was the Alaska Railroad going to phase out cabooses, they were building a new highway and tunnel to phase out the Whittier shuttle train. A double bonus that will not be forgotten.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:08:09 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"

Subject: Merced Gold Mine - NGSL-Gazette from 1987



For all of you that responded, a great big THANKS! James Hoback of the Sonora Short Line sent me beautiful large format JPEG copies of the pages I needed, so the rest of you can quit digging through your back issues.

A response in less than 24 hours...Is this a great Chat group or what?

Thanks to Hubert for starting it all...

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:06:31 EDT
From: crpnut@cs.com

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



What do freds stand for?
Thanks Charles Robbins

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:09:43 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



Hi Charles:

They are the little box hanging on the rear coupler of freight trains.
Theoretically....I think it's supposed to stand for "Federal Rear End Device". The "F" however is generally called by other unprintable names. The Company calls them "EOT's", as in End Of Train marker. The current models have a radio controlled "dump" valve so that you can put the train in Emergency from both ends....in case of a closed angle cock cutting off communication with the locomotive brake valve. If you lose radio control of Fred....you are required to reduce speed to 30MPH until it can be regained. We also put them on most of the coal trains...even the ones with slave motors on the rear....because the helpers have a motorized pin-puller called a "Helper Link". The helper just dials in Fred's number, and he doesn't have to cut in the air, because Fred will tell him if the train goes in Emergency....though I'm sure he'd find out pretty quickly anyway. But...with no brake pipe connection, the helper motor can cut off on the fly....up to 25MPH by rule, though I drug one whose Engineer was asleep 35MPH down Whitetail one night. When he finally woke up, it took two trys for him to cut off....but he never said a word :>)

Regarding the "why" of still using waycars.....most road switchers that have to make long back-up moves carry a waycar. The Gillette Road Switcher usually backs most of the way down to the Hilight Gas Plant, which is about 40 miles from Gillette. That's a long ways for the brakeman to hang on the side of a car, protecting the move.

Best,

Mike Decker,
Engineer, BNsf,
Edgemont, SD

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:29:04 -0700
From: Ken Burns

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



Now; if we can just get the FRED to project a 3D color image of a caboose............

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:55:30 EDT
From: crpnut@cs.com

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



Thanks for that answer, now where can I find information about them, a picture or somthing, that I may model one for my 1.5" scale train?
Charles Robbins

Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:28:16 -0700
From: Russ Wood

Subject: FRED's ?



Charles,

Flashing Rear End Device or Detectors (depends on the railroad).

russ@hobby-tronics.com
Chiloquin, Oregon
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:55:28 -0500
From: "Bill Laird"
Subject: Re: FRED [was Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?]

Charles Robbins wrote, in part:

"Thanks for that answer, now where can I find information about them, a picture or somthing, that I may model one for my 1.5" scale train?"

Charles,
The Train Mountain company store sells a functional one to hang on your last coupler. It is metal, painted bright yellow, in the general shape of a FRED and has a red flasher unit attached that signals your end of train at night. It has three legs on the bottom, two go over the coupler shank and the third drops into the closed coupler to hold it in place.

Bill Laird
General Superintendent of Operations
Wimberley, Blanco & Southern Railroad

Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:39:23 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: FREDs



I've seen guys at the local... it's not really a club, more of a meeting place... but anyway, they use the red flashers normally used by bicyclists at night.

Roy Stevens

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 07:59:43 -0000
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Flat Cars



Well will try again,anyone out there have information on WW11 flat cars carring tanks? Am trying to find pix of them loaded so I can build some in 1.5 scale,thanks Boyd Butler.

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 18:56:18 -0000
From: "Curtis S. Ferrington"

Subject: Stub Switches



Gentelmen,

Does anyone have pictures and documentation on how to build stub switches that they could upload into the files & photo sections of the group, or e-mail to me?

Just a little research project. :-)

Thank you for your time,

Curtis F.

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:48:28 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Flat Cars



I know in Ron Ziel's book "Steel Rails to Victory" they show several shots of tanks on flats.
Make a search for NMRA and ask there.
I had the book from our regional library.
Arno

Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 11:10:25 EDT
From: Jay W Stryker

Subject: Re: Flat Cars



Smithsonian WWII archives...???
WWII books.... tank shipments... I have seen these photos but do not recall the titles. Perhaps Detroit newspapers?
Model Railroader magazine?. Trains magazine?

Well will try again,anyone out there have information on WW11 flat cars carring tanks?

......... the info on the cars themselves would be from the Car Builders Encyclopedia, etc, for the 1930s-1940s editions. These were the usual steel framed cars of that period.

Am trying to find pix of them loaded so I can build some in 1.5 scale,thanks Boyd Butler.

.... If you are interested in the methods of loading for shipment, I believe the tank was centered on the car, blocked with 6 X 6 sat each end and chained down. Canvas muzzle covers over the otherwise open and possibly rained-into gun.

I think I also (dimly) recall single tanks flanked with a light vehicle at each end... such as a half-track, jeep, 6 X 6 troop truck ,etc. There were also two small tanks per big flat car at times. I suspect you can put on any mix of load with any type of dunnage... in wartime there was an inventive mix of practices.... there is a prototype for everything.

I was a little kid when such went past me -- no camera...!! I was thrilled one day when an articulated engine (N&W 6 ??) roared past with a tank train.... shook the ground and blackened the skies and made a permanent impression on me.

Cheers
Jay

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:36:21 -0400
From: Grice Dale-MGI1833

Subject: RE: Flat Cars



Hi,

At the Southeastern Railway Museum in Atlanta, we have a DODX, department of defense (DOD), 100 ton 6 axle flat car that according to our collections and preservations folks, was used to transport military equipment. The DOD had a fleet of railway equipment.

See our web site @ http://www.srmduluth.org/Exhibits/freight.htm for a little more info. Unfortunately there is no photo in the site. I could probably get a digital photo for you in the next several days if you like.

Dale

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:33:21 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Flat Cars



Hi Dale:

I had two of those cars right behind the motors on a freight a couple months back, heading for my dad's WW2 base (Camp, now Fort, I suppose, McClellan) at Anniston. They were carrying a pair of "Abrams" AFV's each. The tanks overhung the sides of the flats by a good foot on each side.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:55:16 -0400
From:

Subject: Re: Re: Flat Cars



Fort Eustis VA used to have a military transportation museum. i was there in the mid 70s. trains and other lesser equipment.

mikell

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:33:14 EDT
From: gfp420@aol.com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 622



We had a couple of those WW-II "export kit" flat cars on a railroad I worked on in the late 70's and early 80's. We got them surplus from some army camp or another. Anyway, they had "K" brakes and truss rods. We used them in work train service. We occasionally loaded a truck, which I suppose would have weighed about the same as a "deuce-and-a-half". Other times, ties, rail, even occasionally ballast with home-made side boards. They were easy to overload. I think they were about 40,000 capacity, but you know how memory gets...

Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:31:39 -0600
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: New list member and GE-25 yard switcher



I have been looking over the last fiew months of postings and had a comment on the GE-25 switcher.

I just finished a 3" scale 15" gauge verson of a GE-25 yard switcher.

I evaluated hydraulic and electric and as a electrical engineer like the generator-motors option. I wimped out and used a simple variable ratio belt drive. I am still interested in the deisel-electric loco and would be happy to help build the controls.

As an introduction I am building a 3" scale 15" steel track. I have a start of a web page at www.trainweb.org/riverview. I am located in Riverton Wyoming.

Chuck

Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 02:05:13 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Ebay?



Group,

Is there an Ebay category for large gauge models? I can't seem to find anything there.

Roy Stevens

Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:32:14 -0400
From: "Michael Blaisdell"

Subject: electric motor



Group,

Has anyone seen the latest SURPLUS CENTER flyer? There is a 1.8 HP 24 volt motor listed. Would that work for a switcher?

Michael Blaisdell

Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:51:32 EDT
From: Smallhand@aol.com

Subject: Re: electric motor



Unfortunately I have not seen the flyer, but I'de like more information on it. What are motor specs and how much is it selling for?

Ray Hill

Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 03:17:40 -0400
From: Dwayne Miller

Subject: Re: Ebay?



Not per say, I normally do a search on Live steam. or Look under model railroads-other gauges.

That seems to find nearly all of them, I remember someone stating another catagory that fits, but dont remember what it was.

Dwayne

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 6:29:01 -0400
From:

Subject: Re: Ebay?



Try "LVE STEAM" in your search line somewhere

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:45:21 -0000
From: "Boyd Butler"

Subject: Flat Cars



I do thank all that responded to my quest for info on Tank carring flats from WW11,now all I have to do is my end and am shure that there will be what I couldnt find on my own,what a bunch of guys,
Thanks Again fellow Live Steamers came thru,
Boyd Butler.

Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:48:16 -0400
From: "Michael Blaisdell"

Subject: electric motor



electric motor specs from SURPLUS CENTER
HP 1.8
24 volt
2400 RPM
CW rotation (I would think you could reverse the polarity...I bet it is NOT perm mag)
vented enclosure
continuous duty
9/16 shaft with keyway
size 7" dia x 10" length
$180.00

Michael Blaisdell

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:05:10 EDT
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re:Waycar? Waycar. Where do they still use waycars?



FOR mIKE dECKER ET AL: sUBJECT CUTTING OFF A PUSHER ON THE FLY.

Excuse caps - fat finger hits Caps lock as well as a.

War story, I think from my uncle who was a conductor on the Boston and Albany. Starting a long westbound train of heavyweight passenger cars out of Albany was a lot of fun especially in the winter as, once out of the station you hit the West Albany hill out of the river valley. Always one pusher and sometimes two to get some momentum generated. Don't know for sure but reasonably certain noone rode the footplate to lift the pin so it must have been trigged up somehow as the train, once the engine found its legs, was supposed to pull away from the helper, usually an 0-8-0 yard switcher. Of course it happened when the couplers stayed coupled and the low wheeled switcher had a hasty ride to Schenectady.

Cam Brown

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Baker

Subject: Boiler info needed



Hi, I am building a model vertical (donkey) boiler that is 5.5" inside diameter and the firebox is 4" high inside while the actual boiler is 12" high so it is a little over 16" high and is 5/16ths thick and is black steel with round disks of 1/4" steel welded inside the pipe with 4,1/2" dia flues welded in. my quistion is how much psi will this hydrostatic at and does it need to be welded by an asme certified welder.I am planning on only operating 60 psi.and also wher could i get some cheap pop valves and could i build an injector easily enogh to work.this has fired my brain so im asking the proes.Thank you for any information.
P.S. the boiler will use one piece of pipe with a disk welded 4" deep inside.
Just to clarify any confusion.

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:07:13 -0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: Boiler info needed



To clarify, I am no expert in such matters, so take my opinion for what it's worth, a few directed electrons.
You plan concerns me. 60psi is nothing to sniff at, it's enough to seriously hurt someone if the boiler fails. Assuming you have pipe certified to 600psi, your idea would probably be fine, IF you were not heating it. Your welds are the weak point in this assembly. Poor welds fail quickly when heated and cooled. If it were me I'd probably stick with copper and silver brazing, which is more forgiving to being heated and cooled.

Roy Stevens

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:16:31 -0400
From: "Michael Blaisdell"

Subject: Re: Boiler info needed



I think your design is basically good but I have a few suggestions. I would use a structural steel tube instead of the black iron pipe. The quality of the steel in pipe versus structural products is different. (I am not a metallurgist, only past experience) I have seen many boilers made from steel and the most important structural feature is securing the flue sheets. Your design uses the flues as the stays and that fine. There is a formula for number of stays per given area. I don't have it right now but it was in "So you want to build a live steam locomotive." As an example I know a boiler with 1/4" firebox walls and 3/8" stays every 1-1/2" inches. It was hydro tested to 500 psi. held the pressure for 8 hours.

The welds are simple. Good welds hold, bad welds break. Can you make good welds? If not, get someone who can. This is not just for safety but for your sanity. Tracking down pinhole leaks in boiler is frustrating! Good welds hold, bad welds leak.

Michael Blaisdell

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:04:46 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Boiler info needed



Fellows:

The steel you want to use is ASTM A-53, and A-106. If I remember correctly, the A-106 comes in tubes, the A-53 is your sheet steel, for flanging, etc. ....but it might be the other way around, it's been 25 years since I was designing Code boilers on a regular basis.

Our Code welder was good enough that he usually wouldn't have to grind out and re-weld more than two or three slag inclusions on a boiler. The inclusions, which can lead to pinholes, show up in the x-rays that you have to do for a Code boiler. The welded joints had three to five passes (one down the gap between the plates, then one or two on each shoulder, overlapping, to fill up the chamfer on the plate edges) with the first rod, and then he would cover the beads with a pass of "Jet-Weld" rod to make it smooth. If the boiler was big enough to get inside, he would put a pass of "Jet-Weld" inside too. The gap between the plates is to ensure a full penetration of the weld. You can machine the chamfer, but our welder would usually just cut it with a torch. He would hold parts in line by tacking pieces of bar or angle on the outside, then making a few short welds. After the joint is stabilized, you can cut off the holders, and grind the sheet smooth.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:17:48 -0000
From: "Jeff Badger"

Subject: New locomotive is nearing completion



Hi all, have been quiet here for some time but active in the shop. Just finished building a 3" scale 7.5" gauge RIDE-IN Class A Climax. Have posted some of the pics in the photos section of 7-plus-NGM, and will finish the download later.

Here are some specs.
Battery powered electric... (it was a provocation from a local club member who likes steam but does not like to get dirty!)

Has a Sound Traxx Climax sound system with a 200 watt amp pushing an 8" subwoofer in the steam dome and a 6" speaker in the stack. It really makes your head turn!

Using a 4QD controller with two 1/2 hp pm motors to 5:1 gearboxs. Dynamic braking which recharges the 4 batteries, two in the tender and two in the boiler.






Truck frames are cast archbar type from Craig Adams in Oregon.


Locomotive weighs in at just over 800#

In its first outing two weeks ago, it ran 6 hours at the local track with no need for recharging. Rides like the proverbial Cadillac.
24" wide 81" long 39" tall


Ask me more...will tell if interested.

Jeff Badger

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:10:58 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: New locomotive is nearing completion



I have added the rest of my pics. Go to the folder that says Badger and open up.










Cheers,
Jeff Badger

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:14:11 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: New locomotive is nearing completion



Very interesting project Jeff.

Quite a few of the older guys in our club seem to be suffering from mphysema, and that may be a way to breathe, stay clean and get on and off the track in no time.
Cheers,
Arno

Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:21:47 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens" >

Subject: nearing completion of first goal



Hi,

I'm in need of some 3.5"-4" aluminum wheels for 7.5" gauge. Does anyone know a supplier?
--now for the progress report
In my first post to the group I outlined my goals. The first goal was make something that moves. Most recommended doing the #50 first, but I decided that I'd like to make most of my mistakes on a first project that I haven't sunk a lot of money into. It's quite a bit to get just the essential castings for the #50 so I'm working on a four-wheel electric put-put. It's turned out to be 3' long and 16" wide. I've turned four wheels, two axles, and have one set pressed on. I'm two welds away from having the frame completed. I've aquired a 1/4HP 24volt gearmotor that should give me a top speed of 7mph. If that doesn't work out I have a 1/2HP 12volt motor, but I'll need to find a 90deg gearbox with the correct ratio to go with it. I've knocked together a short test track out of 3/8"x1" strap and hope to give it a test run sometime in the next week.

Roy Stevens

Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave

Subject: 3' gauge 2-6-6-2's



Hi all,

I am looking for information an 3' narrow gauge 2-6-6-2's. I have found listings of plans in the Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette unfortinatly I do not have acces to any of them. I have a list below of articles / plans that i am looking for. if any one has copies of these articles / plans I would greatly appreaciate it if they could send me a copy of the article / plan.

thanks in advance

David Kmecik

The Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette
Year Issue Page Description
1976 May/Jun p42 Rayonnier, Inc. 2-6-6-2T Baldwin Mallet
1976 Nov/Dec p28 Biles-Coleman Lumber Co. Baldwin 2-6-2T
1999 Mar/Apr p54 Sierra Railroad #38 -- Weyerhaeuser Timber #4 (2-6-6-2)
1999 May/Jun p30 Rayonier (ex-Sierra RR) #38 Details (2-6-2)
1999 May/Jun p54 Uintah Railway 3' ga 2-6-6-2T #51
1999 May/Jun p56 Uintah Railway 3' ga 2-6-6-2T #51
1999 Jul/Aug p54 Sumpter Valley Railway's 3' ga 2-6-6-2 #251

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:53:17 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: 3' gauge 2-6-6-2's



Hi,

The Uintah Valley Mallets are the holy grail of North American 3' gauge modeling. They were built as 2-6-6-2T's in 1926, then sold to the Sumpter Valley Rw in 1940 where the saddle tanks were removed and they were converted to oil burners. Sold to the Internation Railway of Central America in 1947 where they were abused until nothing more than piles of scrap metal (sob).
A local 2.5" scaler is building the saddle-tank version, but his plans would give you everything you needed except the tender if you wanted to build the later version. I will try get his contact information for you.
You should be able to still get the May/June 1999 edition of NG&SLG from the publisher. I would recommend this course of action first, it would be a violation of copyright laws and my ethics to send you copies of plans still available from the publisher. The other plans you list are for standard gauge 2-6-6-2's.

Good Luck,
Roy Stevens

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:03:00 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: (Fwd) Boiler design



Hello all,

I got the following message through the membergroups at Train Mountain. I think, it might be of interest for some of our members.

Date sent: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:05:52 -0700
From: "Trevor Heath"
Subject: Boiler design

I have received some correspondence from a lady in England who's name is Susan Parker.

Susan is building a steam loco in 3.5" gage and has some interesting idea's on boiler design. She would like to hear from fellow lives steamers about the merits +\- of her idea's.

The web site page showing the designs and the thoughts behind them is here:
www.susan-parker.co.uk/nwp136-boiler.htm

Info on the loco itself can be found here:
www.susan-parker.co.uk/nwp136a.htm

You can contact her directly by e-mail at: susan@susan-parker.co.uk

TH


Hubert

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:11:35 -0600
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: 3' gauge 2-6-6-2's



Hi Roy:

Speaking of the standard gauge Mallets, we have the Rayonier loco operating at the "1880 Train" in Hill City, SD.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:25:22 -0400
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: (Fwd) Boiler design



Hubert,

Susan is a regular contributor in the modeleng-list@kepler-eng.com.

If anyone is not aware of the radiant propane burners on Susan's pages, s/he should also look at http://members.surfeu.fi/animato/steamloco.html
Jan-Eric Nystrom in Helsinki is also posting in the above, as well as in livesteamers@mailman.goshen.edu
Arno

Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:33:51 EDT
From: CookRailRR@Aol.Com

Subject: Re: 3' gauge 2-6-6-2's



A source of 1 1/2" scale plans for the Uintah 2-6-6-2: 2 sheets, side elevation & section and end view (No. 51) and 1 sheet side elevation only (No. 50) made from original erection prints available from Coronado Scale Models (Coronadoscalemod@Aol.Com). Also try Truson V. Buegel Enterprises, PO Box 624, Doney, CA 90241 for 2.5 inch scale erecting drawings. The book " Uintah Railway the Gilsonite Route", 1970 another source of photos and drawings. It is an interesting history of the railway and the narrow gauge 2-6-6-2's.

Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:15:07 -0700
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: SVLS Fall Meet Pixs



I have just posted pixs from the Fall Meet at Sacramento Live Steamers in Rancho Cordova, CA. The meet was very well attended with Live Steamers and guest from as far away as Illinois. SVLS is a great club and they do know how to host a very enjoyable meet!

http://www.sscom.org (home page)

then link to "Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest"

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:36:46 EDT
From: yrfavsob@aol.com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 632



Biles-Coleman 2-6-6-2T was only a proposal. I believe the two Uintah 2-6-6-2Ts were the only articulateds built for a US narrow gauge - lots of proposals but no action.

Dennis O'Berry

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:54:14 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: nearing completion of first goal



Roy,
Do yourself a favor and make your wheels out of cast iron castings or steel bar stock. Aluminum wheels on damp, oily aluminum rails are going to be slippery. They also will wear out much faster than the steel or iron wheels.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 02:36:13 -0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: nearing completion of first goal



I found one of these at a local thrift store:

I beleive with light wheels out of high density plastic or aluminum it would be a great toy for my boys, ages 1 and 3 on the small loop at the local 'club'. Iron or steel would make it too heavy, and would likely overpower the existing small axles and motor.

Roy Stevens

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:08:35 -0400
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Re: nearing completion of first goal



Roy,
I have seen a child size handcar designed for 7+ inch gauge track and it oo had (HAD) plastic wheels. These wheels were great if there wasn't wany weight on the hand car. As soon as a small child would sit on the car and try to move on anything but straight track, the wheels would bind. Apparently, the soft flanges would contact too much of the rail head on a curve. For you application, a hard aluminum alloy may work for wheels. Standard cast aluminum tends to be very soft and wear problems may still be an issue. You could take steel wheels and machine them very thin and they would still be strong enough to allow you to use them on your "light rail" project. Just leave the tire and flange to the proper specs.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:27:14 EDT
From: bgwmoxie@aol.com

Subject: Re: New locomotive is nearing completion



How do you get ahold of those castings from the guy in Oregon?

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:53:55 EDT
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: New locomotive is nearing completion



Go to Discover Live Steam sale pages. He has an ad for standard archbar 2.5" scale trucks. E/mail is innergroup@wave.net.

Jeff

Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:59:49 -0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: machining help



Hi,

For those of you that have machined your own axles, what tricks do you use to maintain consistency? I have troubles when I have to swap the axle end-for-end in the chuck.
5/8" rod is cheap, but my time is not, and I'm losing a lot of it trying to get these things to come out right.

Roy Stevens

Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:12:20 -0700< BR> From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: machining help



Roy,

One method is to turn and bore a split bushing to hold the axle in the 3-jaw and carefully mark the bushing so it is always being held in the same position in relation to one jaw. This will be a collet of sorts and should be accurate enough for what you are doing.

A second method is to use square stock in a 4-jaw. The square stock needs to be large enough to hold a set screw to secure the axle while you turn it. You drill and tap the set screw hole first and then bore the square stock for a slip fit on the axle material. This again will provide a "collet" to hold the axle material.

Now, with that said, the real machinists on this list can correct me and make better suggestions. I have used the above methods with good results.

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry. Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:26:47 -0600
From: "Chuck Hoelzen"

Subject: Re: machining help



On my 15" gauge 1 1/4" axles I just center drilled each end and turn between centers with a face plate and drive dog. As long as your tail stock is adjusted you will get true and aligned axles. If the tail stock is off you will be turning a taper. To adjust the tail stock turn a section oversize, mike it and adjust the tail stock offset screws to remove any taper.

A 4 jaw adjustable chuck works but must be centered for each chucking. The "adjust-true" adjustable center scroll chucks come close and are repeatable but you may not like the price. For most of hobby machine shops turning between centers is the best.

Chuck
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 22:05:42 EDT
From: GengH@aol.com
Subject: Re: machining help

Dear Roy:
I am assuming your problem is getting the axles turned so the back to back dimension of the wheels is the same. Here are a couple of ideas:

Turn your axles between centers. You'll get a better job this way, better concentricity and everything is outside the chuck where you can see it and measure the back to back dimension with vernier calipers. You could also make a gage out of sheet metal and turn the steps on the axle to match the gage.

Another way is to turn all the axles about twenty thousandths long ( turn to scribe line). Measure one and put it in the three jaw with the step tight against the jaws. Set the compound to 90 degrees, lock the carriage, and take off just enough to bring the axle to dimension. Without moving the compound put the rest of the axles in tight against the chuck and turn them to the same length. Use an almost flat ended tool so you don't leave a step on the OD.

I hope this helps.
Yours truly,
George Hoke

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 11:20:22 -0800
From: James Hoback

Subject: Fwd: Re: Turning Axles



From: "Chuck Hoelzen"
Subject: Re: Turning Axles

I should have included the discription for center drilling rod..... Most lathes are sold with a 3 jaw scroll chuck and a center rest.

1) mount your 3 jaw chuck, anything close, .005-.007" centering.

2) setup your CENTER REST close to the end of the shaft to be center drilled. (this is the trick to exact center holes)

3) drill all you axle ends with the center rest. If you get a good center follow you will be well within .0005". The center of the shaft is turning but not moving and the drill will follow the path of least resistance (but not always).

now you can go ahead and setup your (axle) between center(s for) turning.


List:

I have forwarded this information from Chuck Hoelzen. It is a clever way to get a centered hole in the end of an axle. Thanks Chuck. I had never considered this method, but then there is a LOT I don't know about achining.

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:49:18 -0800
From: keith.w.johnson@tek.com

Subject: Magazine recommendations



I'm new at this 7+" stuff. I'm not sure I've found the best magazine(s) to be reading to get information. What do you folks recommend? Are there one or two mags that stand out as the one to subscribe to for this scale?

Keith Johnson, Portland, Oregon, USA

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:09:19 -0800
From: James Hoback

Subject: Re: Magazine recommendations



Try these two........

Live Steam Magazine

7+ Railroader

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry.
Sonora, CA, U.S.A.

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:23:26 -0500
From: "Bruce Mowbray"

Subject: Re: Magazine recommendations



Keith,
I second Jim's recommendation on magazines.

Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:32:17 -0500
From: "Bruce Mowbray" >

Subject: Re: machining help



Roy,
I suggest making yourself an adjustable stop that fits into the spindle tube of your lathe. I made one with some threaded rod and scrap aluminum roundstock. One end of the rod is threaded thru a plug that somehow attaches to the left end of the spindle tube (opposite end from the chuck).
The other end of the rod extends right up to the face of the jaws. A lock nut is provided to keep the threaded rod from moving once set to the desired length. I made a support for the center of the rod which slides into the spindle tube. This keeps the otherwise unsupported end from whipping around inside the spindle tube.

For your viewing pleasure, I uploaded a picture of my lathe stop to the photo sections of the 7-plus-NGM site. It is pretty self explanitory.



Bruce Mowbray
TMB Manufacturing and Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:59:21 -0500
From: "mdenning"

Subject: Fw: [EarlyRail]



My heart is warm with friends I make,
and better friends I'll not be knowing;
Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,
No matter where it's going.

Edna St.Vincent Millay

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:56:16 +0000
From: "Roy Stevens"

Subject: Re: Turning Axles



Thanks to those that responded. I learned some new tricks. What I ended up doing was a combination of several suggestions. First I center drilled each end of the axle with a small bit, then I tightened a collet in the center. The collet gave me a reference point against the chuck, and the initial center drilling allowed me to reference against my spindle. That and a dial caliper and I was able to turn twelve axles in short order. Which was a good thing, since I destoyed several by forgetting to put in my center bearings before pressing on the wheels.

Roy Stevens

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:47:41 -0600
From: "Tom Casper"

Subject: Lubricators for 3 3/4 inch scale



Hi, I am looking for a mechanical lubricator that will work in our scale. I saw one in Live Steam that was 2x2x2. I think this is way to small. Any help out there on where to look for a larger one?

Later;
Tom Casper

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:17:01 -0500
From: "don@locoparts.net"

Subject: Re: Lubricators for 3 3/4 inch scale



Locoparts Has for some time been planning to bring out one that is 2-outlet, 3x3x~2-1/2h. Haven't seen too much demand for one tho so I haven't placed any priority on it. When we do it, it will be similar to the others we make: all CNC parts, stell case, powder-coated, utilizing clutch bearings. We have sold a large number of the smaller ones and have had nothing but excellent reports about them (as I would expect, otherwise I wouldn't be making them).

So..do you want to get the ball rolling? We can develope one if you want to be the first to have one. I don't feel that we need a protype here as all the parts will be the same except for the case and lid. And if the height should be a bit different for the larger one, let me know...that is something we cana change if necessary to suit what the market wants. That will give us the incentive to go ahead and buuild a few. BTW...have also had a few requests for a 3-outlet version of this one for some of the shay builders, and will have it ready in a few months..when we get caught up on a few other things. BUT...We need to know what you want and are willing to pay for.

For added info: I have had a request to build some that would hold a pint (US measure). This firures out to ~ 4x4x4-1/2h...that is a BIG lubricator in our scale...so if interested, let me know. To my friend who wanted me to make some of these, are you still interested in a few of these?

don orr
www.locoparts.net

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:00:47 EST
From: nashnash@aol.com

Subject: Re: Lubricators for 3 3/4 inch scale



Tom
I used a traction engine lubricator from www.livesteammodels.co.uk they have them in 3", 4", and 6" scale. Look good on my 2-6-0 in 2 1/2" scale.

John
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:35:04 -0000
From: "dmmcomo"
Subject: Re: Lubricators for 3 3/4 inch scale

Tom -

Be sure whatever you do get a lubricator with a clutch drive, not a ratchet drive. Ratchet drives wear out and also have a low end limit to the stroke, whereas clutch drives allow increments of less than one stroke per revolution. I have found one stroke per 4 driver revolutions works fine and keeps the stack and spark arrestor clean and dry.

Locoparts (Don Orr) builds a great clutch drive lubricatior. I like my lubricator in the cab where the oil stays warm and fluid, I can keep an eye on the level, and I can keep the refill container warm also. Remember, I have seen the depth of snow you guys operate in.

I modified the 2"x2" lubricator by adding a section to it on one end, then putting a hinged lid over the whole thing. I set it up so that it looks sort of like a Fireman's Seat. Will be glad to share details off line if you would be interested.

Rudy van Wingen
Como Roundhouse Products