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7-Plus-NGM Digest November 2000

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:19:41 -0800
From: Gary Woolard

Subject: Thanks from a Lurker



Thank you all for your informative & interesting replies to my questions about the Fitchburg Northern Serendipitously, I found a picture of the engine while browsing a web page about the 2-4-2 Minnie! Don Bauer is right -- FN is certainly a handsome looking engine!

And thanks for all the friendly advice to a Newbie. I will indeed, hang around LALS and pick brains, & get a better idea of what I might be getting into.

But may I ask another question? Several times I've read (or inferred) that the FN is designed to use the Allen castings for an engine called "Chloe." Now the only Chloe that I've heard about is the Hawaiian plantation engine that Ward Kimball extensively rebuilt for his Grizzly Flats Railroad. Is that the prototype for the Allen design?

I guess I should just send for an Allen catalog to drool over. Wish they had a website.

Thanks again for all the replies -- you made a lurker feel welcome.

-Gary-

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:14:19 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Good chance to pose a question to the lurkers/wannabees: Re loco building series the was a series several years ago on building a 1"/12" scale of the DRG&W ten wheeler (T-10 Class) either in Live Steam or Modeltec. Dipping into my file (unindexed) I haven't found it yet. Maybe done by a chap in Texas with great pictures of detailing on a surviving engine in a park. Would this have been one saved by Bob Richardson?

I had borrowed some old LS to copy Don Young's series on Bridgton and Saco River "Number 7 and her Sisters" and may have seen this construction series in these mags which I never possesed myself.

This for a fellow Adirondack LS Rich Dean who has become infected with the virulant Narrow Gauge virus. Rhodes has been more succesful with the 3 ft. strain than I have been with the Extra Narrow 2 ft. .

Cam Brown

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:45:58 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Hi Cam,
The engine building article/sD&RGW T-12) you refer to are in Modeltec, May, 1985-June, 1987.
John Pilling

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:08:46 -0500
From: "Buesing, Don"

Subject: RE: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Hi Cam,
That engine is indeed 1 1/2" scale, and therefore runs on 1" scale track, 4 3/4". The castings were sold by one of two midwest gentleman who built a pair of engines. Sorry, their names escape me at the moment. They are beautiful models of the D&RGW T-12 ('T'en wheeler, 12,000# TE)Baldwin engines. These engines had the unevenly spaced drivers. The prototype they measured and referenced for details was I think #169 and is fenced in front of the ex-D&RGW station in Colorado Springs,CO. The series of articles was in MODELTEC in the late 80's. I will find these articles tonight and post in the morning if someont hasn't beat me to it. I don't believe Bob Richardson was involved with the saving of this engine, most of his efforts are on display in Golden. My shaky memory tells me this and several other engines were donated directly by the railroad to online towns when they came to the end of their useful lives in the '40's and possibly '50's.

The engine Richard Dean is considering is RGS #20, a T-19, which is owned by the Rocky Mountain Railroad Club and displayed in Golden at the museum.
Don

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:27:54 -0500
From: "Rich D."

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Don,
Sorry to disappoint you, but this Richard Dean is building a Std gage 4-6-0 Colorado Midland Class 104. I'm using Allen's cylinders and saddle and a few other things with a 8" pipe boiler with a real wagon top. The wheels will be a new pattern for 8" dia in 1.6" scale.
See some of the parts at http://www.geocities.com/cmsteam
Is their another Richard Dean RR nut out there?
Rich D.

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 18:47:50 -0500
From: "Buesing, Don"

Subject: RE: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Can it be!?!?!!? YES!......there are TWO Richard Deans out there and both are building Ten Wheelers! The first is the esteemed gentleman with the wonderful web site and construction photos. The second is a director at ALS and one of our best "gets it done" guys. He's nearly finished with his first EVER machining project, an Allen 4-6-0!

Rich, sorry if I confused you with Richard.

Don

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:08:32 -0500
From: "Rich D."

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Don, That is excellent news indeed!
Send me the ALS web site url if one please.
I'm from up that-a way and curious if we can get our pics together someday on a site. Business keeps me away from model engineering often, so progress is slow and in spurts.
Keep up the good work, Rich Dean, Atlanta.

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 20:33:21 -0600
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: Thanks from a Lurker



Yes, The Chloe is the descendant of the Hawaiian Sugar Train 0-4-2 configuration that went by the name of Pokaa. Pokaa in Hawaiian is really a reference the wheels turning around and the sound they make when they go around. A simple name for a simple locomotive. The Allen Models Chloe was patterned after the Ward Kimball Chloe which was named after his daughter "Chloe". He redesigned it and it really didn't look much like the original prototype. The prototype never had a headlight or "cow catcher" and it was a tank engine with a canteen it pulled behind it that carried oil (a canteen is a tender like car that carried fuel oil). And it didn't have a diamond stack either (the Allen models doesn't have a diamond stack because Gene Allen doesn't like diamond stacks.) Ward Kimball saved the little sugar train from certain destruction and did a nice job of resurrecting it, but not to prototypical form. I have the castings to a Chloe in my closet, I am debating whether to keep it a Chloe or making a Fitchburg Northern. It wouldn't take all that much to do the conversion, like I said the FN is based on the Chloe castings (at least the Allen Models version is). They use most of the same components. I just may want the extra hauling capacity of the FN than that of the Chloe.

If I am wrong on any of this guys let me know . . . .

Thx

Curtis

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:43:37 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



If ALS canfigure out a way to clone OUR Rich Dean, he and his copies would make admirable additions to any Live Steam club. Yep, I know he is love with Schenectady's RGS #20 but I thought of the T-12 article (so I missed it by two with my T-1o in flagging memory) as a good guide.

Cam B

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:33:31 -0500
From: "Buesing, Don"

Subject: RE: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Sorry Cam, If we can figure out how to clone Richard Dean we're keepin'em all.
By the way, Richard prefers 'Richard' to Rich' and does not care to be called 'Dick'.

Don

Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 09:53:04 -0800
From: "Howard Springer"

Subject: Is anybody receiving messages?



Group - -
Yesterday - no messages. Today (Saturday) no messages. Is anybody receiving anything?
I went through about a week of no messages a couple of months ago, then, after I asked Rudy VanWingen, he sent me some backcopies, then it re-started again normally. Is it me, or is it the system?
Howard Springer

Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 11:54:35 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Is anybody receiving messages?



I got this one, but no others from this group. I did get some from another list on egroups though.

Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 12:06:48 -0500
From: masonbogie

Subject: Re: Is anybody receiving messages?



I got these today, and I'm sure I got quite a few on Saturday

Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:43:02 -0500
From: "Bruce"

Subject: Re: Is anybody receiving messages?



It seems the only discussion lately has been based on the Fitchburg Northern. Got the last FN mail on Thursday the 2nd.

Bruce Mowbray (president)
TMB Manufacturing And Locomotive Works
1 1/2" Scale & 2 1/2" Scale (Narrow Gauge) Live Steamer

Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:08:27 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Is anybody receiving messages?



Tesing to see if this reply to the no messages gets through.

So everyones time shan't be wasted: To Rudy Van Cakvin; Snail mail coming, as soon as your address is applied to envelope. Isn't e-mail nice?

Cam

Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 18:42:48 -0600
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: Is anybody receiving messages?



Howard:

For what it's worth

From time to time you will bounce. The Egroups sends out a message and for whatever reason it gets sent back to them that is called bouncing. Your Internet provider may have gone down, or there may have been a problem on E-Groups side. But I got your message.\ and it's probably something you will want our moderator to check to see if you are bouncing.

Take care

Curtis

Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:55:19 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Westside Lumber short caboose



Hello all,

some of you know, that I'm building a freelanced 3" scale caboose based on the short Westside-Lumber #3 and 4. I've attached a photo, which I shot yesterday.

When I look through my Westside book and also on some 1:20.3 models, I always see something I'm wandering what it is:

On both sides, just under the roof, is an single board attached. And over the complete length of the caboose, there are thee nuts and washers to see, which are imitated at the 1:20.3 models with Nut/Bolt/Washer-castings.

Does someone know, wherefore this nuts and washers are? Are they for rods, which go through the caboose? And if yes, are there nuts on both sides of the wall or only on the outside?

Any help is really appreciated.

Your moderator Hubert

Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:57:18 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Westside Lumber short caboose



Hi Hubert:

That's a nice looking car. Wooden boxcars and waycars (oops, cabooses) are full of tension rods, but except for the Truss Rods, they are generally hidden inside the sheathing. The Master Car Builder's Association called all the rods holding the body together "Framing Rods". There are no other fasteners holding the body framing together, just the rods and mortise and tenon joints.

I'm not familiar with the Westside waycars, but I would say that the nuts are for the tension rods that pass across the car in a groove in, or sometimes the rod is alongside of, the bottom of the Carlines (roof supports). The rod is called the Carline Tie Rod, one of 210 named and numbered parts in a wooden boxcar. The nuts and washers are only on the outside, because the rod would be holding the Carline tightly into its' mortise and tenon joint. My reference material shows that the Carline Tie Rods have nuts and washers just outside the Side Plates. On factory built cars, the nuts are then hidden by cutting a hole in the Outside Sheathing, and covering the hole with the Fascia Board. Since the Westside car was "home built", they probably didn't go to all that trouble, they just put the nuts/washers on the outside of the Fascia Board.

BTW, if you want to go "all the way" with your body framing, there will be a framing rod alongside each of your vertical and angled wooden members from the Side Plate (at the top of the frame) down through the Outside Side Sill. Sometimes the rod is in a groove in the vertical posts. The top end nut/washer (it appears that it might be just a bolt head) will be recessed into the Side Plate, but the bottom nut/washer will be exposed below the Side Sill so that they could tighten them when they got loose. The sizes shown for a standard gauge boxcar are: 1/2" dia. for the roof rods, and 3/4" dia. for the other interior rods.

I hope this helps. It's probably more than you ever wanted to know, but we might as well get the names right, nicht wahr? :-)

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 21:34:29 -0000
From: "Clay Ravencraft"

Subject: New To Group



Hello Everyone

I am new to Live Steam i have no experince i guess i am a greenhorn.
I live in the Atlanta GA area. My goal is to have a Shay and maybe a ten wheeler.

Maybe you all can teall what a good first time engine whould be. I see that there was a club in Atlanta but looks like it is no more what a shame i was wanting to see some engines running.

Any comments or critizem gladly accepted and for give the spelling

Clay Ravencraft

Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:31:51 EST
From: Jubilatede@aol.com

Subject: Re: Westside Lumber short caboose



Supurb education for the not-wholly-ignorant. makes me want to find a (buried) copy of "The car Builders Encyclopedia" in all the boxes upstairs.

CamB

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:07:30 -0800
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: New To Group



I think a Shay is fairly ambitions. You are probally correct in asking about a first time engine.

I'd put in a vote for the Fitchburg Northern. It's about as simple to build as engines get and has a good support group here. Forget the 10-wheeler for now...

JerryK

Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:33:18 -0800
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: New To Group



There are still 2 clubs in Atlanta area. North Georgia Live Steamers and the group in Canton, GA. I live in Peachtree City and I am a want to be 2 1/2" scaler at the moment.

Pat

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:21:39 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 168



Hello Mike,

That's a nice looking car.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate that comment. It's much of work - but who doesn't know this in our group -, but also fun. And as with every model, a deadline is the driving force behind me. Not only one deadline, there are two:
1. The Indoor Live Steam Festival in Sinsheim in January, and
2. The "Build a caboose" contest of the Finescale Railroader.

I hope this helps. It's probably more than you ever wanted to know, but we might as well get the names right, nicht wahr? :-)

Ja, it was more than expected, but very interesting to learn a little bit more about wooden cars.

I live so far away, and complete wooden cars where not very common over here. So, no chance to see something in prototype.

Regards
Hubert

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:57:08 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 168



Hi Hubert:

There is a nice article about the January 2000 Sinsheim Steam Fest in the latest "Live Steam". Very interesting.

When I lived in Denver, many years ago, I used to "Live" in the RGS 0404 at Golden on the weekends. Also, in the early 1960's I had the chance to buy many books from Owen Davies' basement. Down there was where he kept the old "Science of Railways", Westinghouse Air Brake, and International Correspondence Schools textbooks. The information I gave you came from "Science of Railways" "Cars-Construction, Handling and Supervision" of 1908. As I recall, it cost me about $2.00, maybe $5.00. Not too many people were interested in that stuff bck then, Owen was always happy to see the high school kid with his allowance clutched in his hand :-)

Enjoy,

Mike

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:25:22 -0800
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: New To Group



Welcome to the group, you should be able to get a lot of good information here.

I would suggest you subscribe to "Live Steam Magazine" and "Australia Model Engineering." Both are excellent sources of construction information. "Modeltec" is enjoyable, and worth a subscription, but tends to be more "social." Live Steam has a website at www.villagepress.com/livesteam/ and Australia Model Engineer is at www.ameng.com.au you can subscribe to either magazine on line. "Australia Model Engineering" is a bargain, considering the current exchange rate and is highly recommended.

If you are interested in a 10-wheeler, I would suggest Allen Models, they have a locomotive that has been built by many beginners, is it based on a Wabash mogul, but with a 4 wheel lead truck. Their address is 5994 Cuesta Verde, Goleta, CA 93117, they charge $4.00 for their catalog.

A shay might be a stretch, unless you are already a good machinist, and if that is the case you should obtain a copy of "Building the Shay" by Kozo Hiraoka. It details building the locomotive in 3/4" scale, but has a chapter on how to build a larger locomotive, several have been built in 1 1/2" scale. The book also has a good section on silver soldering and general shop practice. It is available from Live Steam for $45.00 call them at 1-800-447-7367. This a book every live steamer should have in his/her library, there is so much good information.

Currently Live Steam is running an series titled "Building the New Shay" an update by Kozo. Back issues are likely available.

Good luck,

Linc

Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:23:19 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 169



Hello Mike,

There is a nice article about the January 2000 Sinsheim Steam Fest in the latest "Live Steam". Very interesting.

Interesting to hear. I'm still waiting for my issue, the last issue I have is with the Coronado on the cover.

Sinsheim is growing every year. I participated this year the second time with my locomotive, and the third time overall. It gives a great chance to run trains during the winter-time, which is not so beautiful over here, if you want to run your locomotive.

Hube

Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:01:14 EST
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 168



Hi Mike Decker:
I was gone from home for a week and am catching up on e-mail. Read your responses to Hubert's query about the wooden Westside caboose. And in your last message (book source) you stirred up another fond memory. I considered Owen Davies a friend. After visiting his tiny shop several times on lunch break, he inquired if I was close by. I explained my dad's service station was only a few blocks south of Owen' shop. He began coming by the gas station periodically to fill up his car, although I think he rarily ventured too far from the shop. He would bring by new train books occasionally that he thought I might be interested in, including a few autographed editions.
Those were the days.

By the way, you might drop me a e-mail offlist about the video tapes you are carrying.
Don B

Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:48:05 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Digest Number 168



Hi Don:

Yes, Owen was a nice guy. He would let me root around in his basement for hours at a time.

On the off chance that somebody else on the list might be interested in the videos, they are listed on my web site: http://www.gwtc.net/~mdecker/index.htm. I expect to have two more titles in time for Christmas: "Ravenglass & Eskdale 125th. Gala", and "Miniature Railways". The R&ER tape will have some interesting coverage of the replica Heywood locomotives, and Miniature Railways is Graham's first "less than 15" gauge" tape. I don't know the prices on them yet, but I'll post it as soon as I get them.

Mike

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:05:03 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Free ads



I have just enabled a classified ads section on my web site. Ads are free to anyone but dealers or manufactures. Dealers or manufacturers selling their own products will need to pay a nominal fee. My site gets a decent number of hits due to my ads in Live Steam and Modeltec along with other magazines.

http://www.largetrains.com

Clean out your basement of that old stuff you're not going to use.

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:14:54 -0600
From: "Mudhen"

Subject: VCR Alert - The Sliver Streak



For anyone interested in vintage railroad movies, Turner Classic Movies (TCM) is running the 1935 version of "The Sliver Streak." tonight at 0330 CST. Unlike the later Gene Wilder version, this one's a drama about a young mechanical engineer proving the practical design of his new diesel trainset. He has to race from Denver to Chicago to save the life of a young boy needing surgery. The train used was the actual CB&Q Zephyr. Not bad for 1935. It's worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

Mark Petersen
Camp Creek Railroaders
Omaha, NE

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:07:47 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: VCR Alert - The Sliver Streak



Thanks Mark:

I taped it off the satellite this morning. Our management in Fort Worthless wouldn't approve of running like that now days, it's fuel economy above all, now (I knew I'd be in trouble with the Santa Fe when they said we had to be "team players"). He WAS playing fast and loose with the red signals though. There was lots of neat old "Q" stuff in there.

Best,

Mike Decker,
Locomotive Engineer, Edgemont, SD, BNsf (CB&Q).

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:13:51 -0000
From: cptboatman@aol.com

Subject: STEAM TRAIN



I AM GOING TO BUILD A STEAMER. MY YARD TRACK HAS A 30'-35' RADIUS, MY CLUB TRACK HAS A 2%-3% GRADE. I WANT TO PULL KIDS AND ADULTS ON MY TRAIN. ANY IDEAS?

THANKS RAY

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:16:09 -0500
From: "Buesing, Don"

Subject: RE: STEAM TRAIN



SHAY!

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:19:24 EST
From: cptboatman@aol.com

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern No. 34



HOOK ME UP

CPTBOATMAN@AOL.COM

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:03:22 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: My first RUNNING engine



Here's a photo of my switcher, still working on control circuits.



More pictures can be seen at:

http://www.largetrains.com/images/switcher

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:51:01 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: 150 members now



Hi all,

I'm really proud:

150 members now, and that in only 7.5 months! That's real great!

Hope, that we continue growing as well in exchanging informations.

Thank you very much

Your moderator
Hubert

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:07:04 -0600
From: Curtis Hustace

Subject: Re: STEAM TRAIN



Ray:

A Little Engines 0-4-0, or 0-6-6, or an Allen Models Chloe . . . there is a few. I would definately check out a Roll Models locomotive, but I am not sure about the Turn Radius. Jeff Badger . . . what is the turn radius on the Columbia.

Curtis

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 00:11:41 EST
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: STEAM TRAIN



40' diameter minimum...

JB

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 00:35:23 EST
From: btflco@aol.com

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern for sale on E/Bay



Hey guys, heads up on E/Bay there is a 90% complete Fitchburg Northern 2-6-0.
Starting bid is $5,500.00 and no reserve!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=502305478

Happy bidding...

Jeff Badger

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:32:14 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Gus lives!



Gus, my critter now has a name, runs fine! The attached picture shows Gus being run by my son, Alex, age 6 at the PVLS club track. The passengers are his sister Karen and his uncle Eddie.

First Run


The engine de-railed once, the front suspension is too tight. It runs a little fast but I can adjust the speed limit on the controller. PLENTY of power, I pulled two adults and two kids with no signs of strain. It will probably pull much more than that.

I'm running a 1/3rd HP 24 volt motor with a surplus controller, both cost me $40. The engine arrived 11 days ago minus drive train and gauged for 7.5". I re-gauged, painted, re-geared, installed drive train, batteries and wired it for it's first run today! Oh, did I mention I re-built the engine stand too! All this while working on my "real" job as well.

More pictures can be seen at:

http://www.largetrains.com/images/switcher

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:26:51 -0600
From: "Shakespearean Festival"

Subject: Re: Gus lives!



These are great pics. You have encouraged one guy that was ready to give up. Could I ask where you purchased the motor and controller? My persoel e-mail is farside@cedarcity.net
Thanks
David Rhoton

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:23:13 -0500 From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Gus lives!



David,
you may want to check you computers clock (unless this is a sly attempt to get to the top of the message pile ;->))

Cheers,
Arno

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:48:24 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Re: Gus lives!



Thanks for the forward Arno, I never received David's email!

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:12:01 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Controller



Some folks have asked for my controller source, here it is:

http://members.tripod.com/~divelec/hbridge.html

The motor was purchased on ebay for $40 from Larry Levinson he has more.

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:10:21 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Gus lives!



Hi Stan,
Do you run the motor on 12 or 24 volts?
John Pilling

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:24:59 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Gus lives!



24 Volts, two deep discharge batteries.

Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:08:01 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Scale model windows



Just ran across an interesting commercial web site listing, with photos, windows and other stuff that may be used in our model construction. The web site is http://www.dollhouseylady.com"

Yep, it is 1" scale doll houses and stuff but the (operational) window is 5 1/16" high 2 9/16" wide and 1/2" thick. This may a good fit for someone's caboose/passenger car or simply use the window assembly as a conceptual design for making a larger or slightly different design window. I ordered one window and will be scaling it up for my 2 1/2 project in process, a combination passenger/baggage car. The price seems reasonable and it looks good.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:05:44 -0600
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Scale model windows



How about some drawings and/or photos of teh passenger/baggage car. what trucks will you use? I'm wanting to build some 2 1/2 inch passinger cars also.

Ron

Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:17:43 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Scale model windows



Ron,
The trucks I am using are prepared from a photo of a Barney and Smith, car manufacturing Dayton Ohio around 1880. Attached is jpg photo of one of my trucks which is still in work. ( hope it stays attached to this note.) I still have the brakes to develop and install. The original truck has wood frames but I used steel instead since it will be stronger than wood. When one scales down to our model size, even 2 1/2, I would worry about wood truck frames. I made patterns and cast the aluminum parts using a friend (Al VonRueden's) little propane foundry. The center leaf springs are dummy made from rolled 1/8 steel strip. As you can see, I haven't yet installed the coil springs on either side of the dummy leaf springs. The body frame is nearly complete along with nice steps on each end. I suspect this project will be complete maybe next August and if not probably by the following spring. No rush in these things since I already have other rolling stock and a locomotive to pull this car with.

First Run


Actually this whole project is from another photo I found in a book (it was from a photo on the book jacket), so any resemblance to the real thing is close but it may not gain a pure rivet counter's object of approval. Those who know me realize that I am happy building model as a caricature rather than as an exact replica.

You can find a good drawing, but of another design, in "The John Maxwell Collection" which is available at http://www.ColoNG.com. I'll send a scan of my own drawing by separate e-mail directly to you, but not today Thanksgiving, since in the past I have had difficulties in sending to the 7+ file. However, I still use an old CAD program called Generic CAD for the Macintosh and can send you a copy of my file if you can use it. The sad thing is the program has been long since discontinued and is no longer maintained. Another sad story of a larger fish buying up a little fish, only to discontinue what is otherwise a great little product.

If you desire to use neat stuff and have a real spifey looking car then I would suggest contacting Rudy at Como Products. He has done much to support our hobby and carries quite a few castings and misc items. Rudy is forever searching out and getting a line of products that add much class to any project.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:48:33 -0800 From: Don Dickens

Subject: Trucks



Fine looking work Doug!
Retirement means 6 Saturdays a week.
D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:55:44 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick >

Subject: 3 point suspension



I need to build a riding car for my new engine. I'm favoring using 3 point suspension like my engine has. How much movement do I need to allow for in the axle? In other words, how far up or down should my axle go on the ends?

I will be building either a peat car or a stretched Sandy River work car. These cars have just two axles. If I build a Koppel type suspension I need to make room for the axle motion. The car will be about 52" long.

Thanks for any help.

Stan

Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:22:10 -0800
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: 3 point suspension



Stan and others:
I used a four wheel tender/riding car behind my NG engine for many years and as far as I know, the present owner still uses it. It carried me, a large water tank and a built-in cooler of ice and soft drinks. I used rubber blocks for springing and my test was if it would roll over a 3/8" bar on a rail under one wheel and keep the other three wheels on the rails. The rubber came from the nearest auto parts store in the form of coil spring boosters. It can easily be carved into what ever shape you require. I wore out a set of bearings on this car but the rubber kept on going just fine.

If some of you purists find the rubber blocks offensive, check out the builders of 24" work cars in England. Some of them used rubber suspensions too. Then to really jangle the "supposed to be types" there was an ornamental iron worker (bending and welding) who built a 12" gauge railway in Massachusetts and used tennis balls trapped in a sort of steel tube pocket and with the load coming through a smaller size tube that telescoped into the larger size.

Retirement means 6 Saturdays a week.
D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:00:25 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Re: 3 point suspension



Hi Stan,

On my 4-wheel-cars, I use small rubber-cylinders with attaches screws. They are common in hifi-racks, and available at an local electronic-store. May be, Radio Shack has them, but don't know from this side of the pond.

They are 15 by 15 mm (~ 0.6 by 0.6") .

I never had a derailment until yet, and my friend Holger in Kiel runs all his cars without any suspension. Wheel bearing screwed to the wood-frame, that's it. And for his 8-wheel-cars, he uses short wooden 4-wheel-trucks like an 4-wheel-car.

I'll use my method in future, but am actual building an 8-wheel-riding-car. The reason is, that the rubber-bearing works, but isn't very comfortable. And the round 60 miles in Sinsheim last january were very HARD to my back.
An 8-wheel-car with sprung-trucks is more comfortable for long time riding.

Hubert

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:12:28 -0800
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Re: 3 point suspension



Maybe the hard riding was caused by those rubber cylinders being small. If I understand what you're referring to, they are intended for vibration damping feet for electronic equipment. They certainly don't have much "crush depth". The rubber blocks I refer to allowed much more give and thus more shock cushioning.

I'm definitely not against a comfortable ride. The two "humongous" (8 ft) gondolas that I built for the same train had three levels of springing (real coil springs) One set kept all wheels on the rails, one set carried the empty weight of the car so that it tracked well and the third set picked up the weight of the passengers. They also had disk brakes with my automatic vacuum system. I think Doug will agree that they give just about the ultimate in stable and comfortable ride. At least I never rode in anything better.

D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:46:58 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: 3 point suspension



Don,
I still have your gondolas. Brian Lillquist, who bought your Romulus from me did not choose to take the gondolas. He had riding cars of his own so I just sold him the engine and tender. I was pleased that he did not need the gondolas you built since they are premier cars. I tell everyone that they ride like air suspension, although they are not. Super, super, super cars. I've had as many as six adults in one car and the vacuum disk brakes work just great.

I should note that I have since converted them from your automatic vacuum brake system to simple vacuum brakes. Although automatic brakes are really the best, I felt it would be in my interest to standardize on simple vacuum to allow using other cars with my Lil Lima "Tasha" that I had finished a couple of years ago. Having standardized vacuum brakes has allowed me to use other cars when visiting other tracks. Nothing against the automatic but to assure interchangeability of equipment at other tracks to my locomotive and tender, I felt I had little choice.

Doug in Seattle

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:08:54 -0800
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Automatic Vacumn Train Brakes



Somewheres on my old computer I have a drawing of a modification of the Automatic Vacuum Train Brakes that allow them to be easily switched back and forth between straight vacuum and automatic. Maybe I ought to dig it and the other drawings out and fling the whole thing out for everybody to see.

Retirement means 6 Saturdays a week.
D. W. Dickens BA, MSEd, JSI, DMA, RNG

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:57:26 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Automatic Vacumn Train Brakes



Please do. I'm getting ready to build some riding cars(2 1/2" scale) this winter and would like to include brakes.
Thanks.
John Pilling

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:57:07 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Automatic Vacumn Train Brakes



Don,
Having those drawings available for those other 7+ readers that are interested in automatic brakes might be helpful. I have gone beyond salvaging the automatic brack system on the two gondola's and do not see going back to it at this point. I'm still not the best engineer there ever was and there are times that my steam pressure does drop, like on a big hill or I'm not watching things and senior moments like that the automatic brakes come on automatic and I'm holding up traffic while I rebuild steam pressure.
Kind of embarrassing.

Doug

Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 20:48:28 EST
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Re: Automatic Vacumn Train Brakes



I think we all would benefit from the information on your automatic vacuum brakes, as well as other innovations that other members have to share. It seems that the real benefit in having this list is in sharing info.
Don Bauer

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:52:24 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Help needed



Hello all,

today, I nearly finished the body-work on my caboose. Sorry, but I cannot send actually any photo, because I have problems to download them onto my PC.

And now I have a question, I hope, you can help me:

I know, that the outside-sheeting was nailed to the wooden-frame.

How should I imitate that? Should I use really nails - and if, which head-size - or should I only drill small holes to simulate the nails?

Any help is really appreciated.

Hubert

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:58:34 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Help needed



Hi Hubert,
You might want to consider nothing showing on the surface as tongue and groove siding was nailed on the edges where it didn't show.
Regards,
John Pilling

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:02:23 -0000
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: Help needed



Hi John,

It's a Westside Lumber prototype, and they were nailed visible.

Hubert

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:02:54 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Re: Help needed



Hi Hubert,
You might find some suitable pins at a shop that caters to model boat builders. I've seen them as "bank pins" or "lills". Also, escutcheon pins.
Hope this helps.
John

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:45:00 -0600
From: Jim Keith

Subject: Briggs boiler enhancements



To Doug in Seattle:

I enjoyed your articles in Modeltec ("Building Tasha", April 1999, and "Caboose for Tasha", June-July 2000). Beautiful photos and interesting text.

I wondered if you could give us a little more info about the "copper tube side headers in the firebox" that you mentioned in the first of those articles. What do they look like and how have they worked out, especially regarding better steaming and maintenance?

Hope I haven't caught you off guard on this; saw your postings on Doll house windows and vacuum brakes. ... interesting.

Jim Keith
Cincinnati

PS: (Sent a query re the above to George Broad but haven't heard so decided to use this forum)

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:41:49 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Briggs boiler enhancements



Hi Jim,
Thanks for the comments. Keith Watson of Western Australia, who designed the Briggs boiler, made a comment once in a letter to me. Keith said, on one boiler they were in a rush to build, the sidewall tubes were omitted but it did not seem to have any effect on the steaming capabilities of the boiler. Fact or not I have no way of knowing.

I do realize that the firebox is the hottest part of the boiler so I proceeded to add the side tubes even though they were not shown on Keith's drawings. Quite frankly I can't tell you if it was good or not good since I have had no problems with the side tubes and the boiler steams very well. I would do it again if I built another. Actually Don Deffley, a friend of mine in KLS, built a Lil Lima with me and we both have the side tubes in them. As we shared making extra parts for each other it turned out I volunteered to make the side tube assemblies. We sort of winged it on supplying the cooler water from the boiler to the bottom of the side tubes. The Lil Lima design has a welded pipe end as a sump, or mud collection pocket on the bottom of the boiler. The blowdown was supposed to emit from that fitting but we decided to just add a heavy (real heavy) brass (it should have been bronze but no problem yet) manifold threaded into the 1/2" nipple on the bottom side of the pocket and then ran copper (or were they brass pipes?) at an upward slope to the side tube nest. One each side of the firebox.

We used compression fittings and they too have been working just fine although I believe the Australian model boiler code specifies using silver brazed fittings but we didn't.

The lower and upper tubes on the nest were machined to fit the riser tubes by plunging an endmill into the tube. This made a good fit for silver brazing the assembly together. Making a simple wood jig to hold the parts, I just silver brazed the assemblies together. After installing the compression fittings we hydro tested the assemblies to around 350psig or so. We didn't want to go to all this bother and have a problem.

It was a pretty tight fit getting the side tube assemblies connected to the fittings in the crown sheet and to the tubes coming from the underboiler sump but we did. I hope we never have to take them out.

Don Deffley used fireplace insulation board behind (outboard) of his side tubes but I used a fireclay type mixture and filled the space behind the tubes up to about the middle of the tubes. Neither of us have had a problem with excessive heat conducting through the firebox sidewall.

We thought and have found that the sidewall tube nest has an effect of perking water up onto the crownsheet, so in our mind that was a great plus. The negative is that unless the water glass fitting is suitably placed you may find at times, not too frequently however, there is a lot of motion and bubbling in the waterglass. We have crown girders supporting the crown sheets, no stays, and it was a problem of sorts finding the best place to penetrate the backhead so as to get a good water level reading and miss the upward flow of water from the sidewall tube sheets. It is all magic, I guess. We lucked out and are happy with the results.

If you are familiar with Train Mountain, we both can both steam up the serpentine continuing up toward Wedding Cake and can inject water whenever we need without a problem. Many steamers do have problems of some sort or another on this particular long grade. It must be over a mile long.

Time to get ready for church this morning but I will try and send you a jpg scan of my drawing for the side tube nest. (If I still have the drawing, that is.) I'll send it direct rather than on the 7+ listing.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:41:25 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Re: Help needed



Hubert,
Another source for small nails or bank pins would be dollhouse builders supplies.
John Pilling

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:55:03 -0500
From: Stan Zdonick

Subject: Re: Help needed



I own a pneumatic nailer that uses very thin nails. You might want to look into this option as well. If the head is too big you could possibly grind down a strip before using them.

If you don't have experience with these nailers, try it on scrap before using them in production. The pressure setting and depth setting on the gun can be used to drive them flush or counter-sink them.
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:29:58 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"
Subject: Caboose photos

Hello all,

in the meantime I solved my computer-problem and was able to download the photos from the camera.

Attached you will find the front and the side-view, as the caboose looks today.





Hubert

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:42:36 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Briggs boiler enhancements



Jim,
I'll try attaching a scanned 8 1/2"x11" dwg I had made several years ago. The format is in jpg format. There is not a lot of detail on the dwg but it will give you an idea regarding what we did.

Let me know if the dwg did or did not come across. Sometimes it is too large and people are not able to print at 50 percent or less to get it onto one page.

Doug

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:25:31 -0800
From: Russ Wood

Subject: Re: Caboose photos



Hubert,

One question, how many liters of beer will the caboose hold? :o)

russ@hobby-tronics.com

Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:11:39 -0000
From: "Charlie Hartill"

Subject: Theft of Locomotives & Rolling Stock



I am a recent addition the 7-plus-NGM e-group and would like to air the subject regarding theft of equipment.

By way of introduction, I have been involved with the operation and construction of 7 " gauge railways for over 25 years now, and over this time have seen the "hobby" indulged by a few develop into a vest interest shared by thousands world wide. It is through this network that I am seeking advice regarding the theft of locomotives, rolling stock and associated equipment.

Over the last two years, several colleagues and acquaintances of mine have suffered loss by theft of their locomotives. At least two of these instances were directly related, being in the same area at the same time, and is believed that the theft was carried out "to order", and in all probability the equipment taken was exported almost immediately. An other incident befell a member of my own ME Society whereby thieves made of with a 7 driving truck and a 3 gauge loco.
The 7 loco only remained as it was too heavy to be removed!

Security of equipment has been debated several times within our society and we seem to have covered most aspects ranging from simple "post code" stamping, to micro dots. Whilst all of these methods are commendable and offer some from of deterrent, they don't in themselves prevent the actual act of theft and the possible resale. The possible exception to this is GPS devices, which carry a large price tag and can only be accommodated in larger locomotives.

It has been suggested that the most effective way of bringing this sort of theft to a world wide attention of those people who might become an unknowing customer of stolen goods, is to use rapid, modern media of the inter-net, e-mail, and similar news groups. I am not suggesting that an owner/address list etc. be set up, as this in the wrong hands only serves to advertise the location of potential targets. The instigation of some form of rapid and international communication network may help the authorities with the recovery of stolen equipment. This communication network in itself, could become the deterrent.

Has this subject been aired before? Has any one any thoughts on the subject?

Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:10:40 +0100
From: "Hubert Wetekamp"

Subject: Re: caboose photos



Hi Russ,

> One question, how many liters of beer will the caboose hold? :o)

actually I don't know that. Might depend on the size of the ice-chests, if I install them.

Hubert

Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:57:29 -0600
From: Nick Allen

Subject: Simulating Nails



I would attach the siding with an adhesive called MD-400 (by Macklanburg Duncan) which comes in a caulk tube and is made for subfloors. You can then use a 4-penny or 3-penny Finishing nail which has a head diameter of about 3/64". This would be large enough to see but not enough to look out of scale.

Nick Allen

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:44:33 -0800
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Trucks



Don:

I understand BA and MSEd having a BA and a JD myself, but what are JSI, DMA and RNG?

Quentin

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:45:36 -0800
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Trucks



JSI = Just some initials
DMA = Don't mean anything
RNG = Real nice guy
I earned the first two, still working on the last one.

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:09:41 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Trucks



From Don it must be Railroad narrow Gauge. (?)

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:16:20 -0800
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Trucks



Don:

And all of us are RTN, real train nuts.

Quentin

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:19:44 -0800
From: Don Dickens

Subject: Re: Trucks



...and some of us are RNM's (real narrow minded, track wise that is)