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7-Plus-NGM Digest November 2001

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 18:13:41 -0000
From: "Michael Crofts"

Subject: Re: Point Levers


Three suggestions:
1. Joe Nemeth, Scaleway Signals, near Bristol. Tel 01454 632385
2. Lynwood Collectables, had the contract to recover all Railtrack signalling equipment; probably still do, I can dig out the telephone number if you like
3. Roderick McCrea installs stuff like this: telephone 01594 529772 (Royal Forest of Dean)
The Perrygrove Railway has for sale a dismantled 20 lever frame, ex. Peterborough North signalbox, probably Saxby pattern. We would be willing to split this and sell for £15 per lever.

Good Luck
Michael Crofts

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 20:17:59 -0800
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Quick Time Movies From Sacramento Valley Live Steamers Fall Meet



Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest announces a new feature to the site, Quick Time Movies with sound. These movies will become a added feature to the normal pixs pages shown. As with anything new, these are in an experimental stage and refinements will be forth coming. The site allows you to download the file to your computer for viewing at your leisure. (files are virus free) If you don't have Quick Time Player, it's available free by clicking on the Quick Time Logo. You can find them at the home page of South Shore Communications http://www.sscom.org/ then onto Live Steaming In The Pacific Northwest.

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 19:21:45 -0800
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Boeing retrofit



From Good Ole Russell

Date: Wed Oct 31, 2001 10:21 am
From: Russell Dunn
Subject: Boeing retrofit

Hi People

Check out the proposed new cabin features for commercial aircraft



Kind Regards,

Russell Dunn
http://people.mydesk.net.au/~rd/index.html

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:48:53 -0500
From: brough_turner@nmss.com

Subject: Railroad for both 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" gauge equipment



On several occasions, I've heard of people who have built a single railroad for use with both 7.25" and 7.5" gauge rolling stock. But I've never seen a description of exactly how they did it. And I didn't write down any references at the time. Does anyone have experience with something like this, or a reference to someone who has built such a track?

I'm constructing a 7 1/4" railroad in our property in Maine. I've cleared and graded 1200' of ROW through some woods. The tightest turn has a 70" radius and, by excavating 100' of open cut, I managed to limit the grade to 1 1/2% max. Now I'm about to build several jigs so I can assemble 10' track sections in my basement during the winter.

By my calculations, based on the IBLS wheel standards for 7 1/4" gauge and on one set of recommendations for track gauge on curved sections of a 7 1/2" railroad (e.g. not less than 7 5/8" for 80' radius curved track), I've concluded a dual gauge railroad would be very marginal -- prone to derailments. But I'm not confident of my calculations. If there is a safe way to also accommodate both 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" rolling stock, I'd like to figure it out in the next few weeks, so I can finalize the jigs and start building track sections.

Thanks,
Brough Turner

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 12:54:29 -0800
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: Railroad for both 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" gauge equipment



Brough:

Mike Venezia in Jackson, New Jersey, has built his Iron Acres Railroad specifically to allow simultaneous operation of both 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" equipment. His track gauge is 7 1/2" on straight and 7 9/16" on curves. In the frog of his switches he machines the groove for the flange out to 1/2" and sets the guardrail the normal distance for 7 1/2" gauge. He also allows a little extra gap and movement at the switch points. See www.ironacresrailroad.homestead.com which has Mike's e-mail address for further information

Quentin Breen
Train Mountain

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 15:12:03 -0000
From: "Ronald"

Subject: seeking .........desperately seeking for



Hi all out on the list

Me Ronald, a short intro to the list..
came down to earth '56 as a British/German mix
somewhat like Heinz 56 married one son and living since 91 in France down to the Atlantic within the vineyard of Saint Estephe / Medoc not to far from Bordeaux...

build up to now a 0-4-0 T O&K : Orenstein & Koppel Narrow Gauge steamer live steam for 7 1/4 and a 0-4-4-0 T steamer /live steam for 7 ¼ got the idea, plans and photos from a guy who made a trip to Java... it is a German Jung

But I do love American steamers,
Plans …no way in old Europe

so what I'm looking for is a 0-6-6-0 or x-6-6-x or even ???? well a mallet but must be NARROW GAUGE as the other two are narrow gauge's the Mallet idea is due to operate on different clubs as I like big Narrow gauge locomotives but not to sure to operate a beauty as 4-6-2 everywhere...
If bot narrow gauge as there is a x-6-x or something like this even bigger and THERE are good plans to build from, could be nice too so up to YOU EVERY idea welcome Ronald
every, idea welcome

Ronald

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:20:51 EST
From: davidh8602@aol.com

Subject: Re: Railroad for both 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" gauge equipment



Regarding dual gauge, a person here in Texas runs both 7-1/4" and 7-1/2" equipment on his layout. The track is gauge at 7-1/2" and he has milled out the frogs in the switches. I have run my RRSC Mikado on his layout with no problem pulling his 7-1/4" gauge equipment.

David Hannah, III
http://www.qstation.org/9944/9944.html

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:18:12 -0500
From: masonbogie

Subject: Re: Digest Number 425



Hi Ronald.
The Uintah 2-6-6-2Ts (later converted to tender engines on the Sumpter Valley) would be beautiful models in live steam, but quite large. I think Baldwin's general arrangement erection drawing is available, and quite possible other detail drawings. I'm not sure if anyone has built a live steam version before, but I think so.
By the way the real engines were built to negotiate 66-degree curves--about 20-foot radius in 2.5" scale!
George

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:21:04 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Petrol Electric, some questions



Hi Guys,

I have been building a 7¼ diesel outline loco for some time (photo's in the archive) and now it finally comes time to design and build the control systems.

Please remember I am on a relatively tight budget and can't just go out and buy this and that.

I have already the four traction motors installed in the bogies, these are around 1/2 HP permanent magnet 24VDC motors that I have had great success with in earlier projects, specifically my little 0-4-0 NE style Tram loco. I also have ordered a 3.5HP horizontal shaft petrol powered 4 stroke motor.

I plan to connect this petrol motor to a 140amp 24 volt alternator off a truck. I intend to do this through a centrifugal clutch so I can stop without having to turn the petrol motor off.

Now comes the tricky parts,

1Can anyone tell me if varying the speed of the alternator will vary it's power output thus varying the speed of the loco?
2Will an alternator supply power if you spin it? Or does it need some sort of exciting?
3If the alternator needs "exciting" to make power, can this be done in such a way that won't interfere with my plans as of "1" above?


Okay, yes I know that the ideal way is to use a 24 volt battery bank that the alternator will charge, then use a controller from this to control the speed, BUT, three main problems I see here, firstly, I don't have the hundreds of dollars spare to buy one of those fancy motor controllers, secondly, I don't really want to add the weight of batteries to my already overweight underpowered loco, and finally, won't this mean I'll need 2 throttles, one for the loco and another for the petrol motor?

Any help gratefully received.

Grant Alexander
C/- Squirrel Valley Railway

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:17:57 -0500
From: "Fallenhunter"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions



I have been building a 7¼ diesel outline loco for some time (photo's in the archive) and now it finally comes time to design and build the control systems.

Must check these out... something I would like to do..

Please remember I am on a relatively tight budget and can't just go out and buy this and that.

I hear you brother!

I have already the four traction motors installed in the bogies, these are around 1/2 HP permanent magnet 24VDC motors that I have had great success with in earlier projects, specifically my little 0-4-0 NE style Tram loco. I also have ordered a 3.5HP horizontal shaft petrol powered 4 stroke motor.

Which traction motors, how much and where?

I plan to connect this petrol motor to a 140amp 24 volt alternator off a truck. I intend to do this through a centrifugal clutch so I can stop without having to turn the petrol motor off.

Should not be needed, see below.

Now comes the tricky parts,
1 Can anyone tell me if varying the speed of the alternator will vary it's power output thus varying the speed of the loco?
2 Will an alternator supply power if you spin it? Or does it need some sort of exciting?
3 If the alternator needs "exciting" to make power, can this be done in such a way that won't interfere with my plans as of "1" above?


1: Possibly, but not suggested.
2: Yes, just need the correct RPMs
3:See above 1 and 2


Okay, yes I know that the ideal way is to use a 24 volt battery bank that the alternator will charge, then use a controller from this to control the speed, BUT, three main problems I see here, firstly, I don't have the hundreds of dollars spare to buy one of those fancy motor controllers, secondly, I don't really want to add the weight of batteries to my already overweight underpowered loco, and finally, won't this mean I'll need 2 throttles, one for the loco and another for the petrol motor?

Well 1, you dont need a ton of batteries, just one, and 2, you can make the controller yourself, if you have any knowledge of electronics, and a soldering iron (well you will need a bit more, but you get the idea). I plan to do just this myself.

Any help gratefully received.

Hope this helps.

Dwayne Miller

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:43:52 EST

From: GMEYER6103@AOL.Com

Subject: Re: Digest Number 425



Ronald, 2.5 inch scale Erecting - Elevation and Cross Sections drawings of the Uintah 36 inch gauge 2-6-6-2, # 51 are available from Truson V. Buegel Enterprises, PO Box 624, Downey, Ca. 90241......

Gary

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:23:07 -0600
From: "Ron Koehler"

Subject: Re: Another Propane burner has been ignited



Hi,

I am very interested in your propane burner information but am unable to open your attachment. I normally can open a jpg but this one says "sit" after it which is probably giving me the problem. Help

Thanks,

Ron Koehler

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 11:14:59 EST
From: Smallhand@aol.com

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions



To the best of my knowledge:
1. The alternator's output will be constant above approximately 1200 RPM.
2. The alternator field will have to be excited to produce current.


A 24V DC generator will probably be a better choice for a throttle- controlled system based on engine RPM. Keep in mind that some sort of control must be included to change directions. This is the extent of my theoretical knowledge. If you can get in touch with John Smith at Los Angeles Live Steamers, I'm sure he could point you in the right direction. Please pass on your findings.

R. Hill

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 19:22:43 +0000
From: "Chris Draper"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions



Grant,

Alternators use a field effect to generate so, yes they do need an excitor current. This is normally supplied by the vehicles battery until the alternator is producing power ( The little red warning light is often wired into this so it glows using battery power only).

Given you do not want a battery bank a small rechargable battery of suitable voltage would be more than sufficientfor this purpose. (If the motor is electric start then it's battery may be used? - It does not have to be 24v necessarily).

Modern alternators are most often internally regulated, but this can be disabled to allow full control of the power produced. A quick search on Google.com using the keywords "Alternator Modification" turns up several useful sites, one of which is:

http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/alternator.htm

You may find that you can also reverse direction by manipulating the low power field as opposed to heavy relays on the traction current, although this is past my current (no pun intended!) knowledge and some research would be needed.

Hope this helps

Chris Draper

Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:12:43 -0000
From: "Ronald"

Subject: Hallo all



Hi all out on the list

Me Ronald, a short intro to the list..
came down to earth '56 as a British/German mix somewhat like Heinz 56 married one son and living since 91 in France down to the Atlantic within the vineyard of Saint Estephe / Medoc not to far from Bordeaux...

build up to now a 0-4-0 T O&K : Orenstein & Koppel Narrow Gauge steamer live steam for 7 1/4 and a 0-4-4-0 T steamer /live steam for 7 ¼ both 20 feet as a lot American logging locomotivs got the idea, plans and photos from a guy who made a trip to Java... it is a German Jung

But I do love American steamers,
Plans …no way in old Europe

so what I'm looking for is a 0-6-6-0 or x-6-6-x or even x-8-8 well a mallet but must be NARROW GAUGE as the other two are the Mallet idea is due to operate on different clubs as I like big Narrow gauge locomotives but not to sure to operate them everywhere...

as there is a x-8-x or something like this even bigger and THERE are good plans to build from, could be nice too

Found once on the www a Baldwin C25 on Vance Brass page but no emal there....
so up to YOU
EVERY idea welcome
Ronald
every, idea welcome
Ronald

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:18:37 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: Another Propane burner has been ignited



It is a Microsoft Word file created on my Mac and transmitted via AOL. I wish I knew what the problem was since one other person asked the same question. Others have downloaded the construction journal which is packed with photos.

I'll resend to you the one photo that I did include with the initial 7+ note.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 02:41:34 -0000
From: kimberln@home.com

Subject: Live Steam Magazine Wanted



I'm looking for Vol 28 #2, Mar/Apr 1994 and Vol 28 #6, Nov/Dec 1994 of Live steam magazine.

I have some miscellaneous Modeltec mags from Vol 2 thru Vol 17 to trade. If you have one or both of the Live Steam mags, let me know what Modeltec mags you want and I'll see if I've got them.

Thanks,

JerryK

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:09:21 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Dwayne, and listee's,

The 24DC permanent magnet motors I'm using as traction motors are from big old IBM tape drives, you know the sort from "Main frame" computers, the tape drives were in cases about 30" square and about 5 feet high. Big suckers! The motors are constant rated at about 21V and 20 amps.

If I read your reply correctly you said that the alternator will make volts just by spinning it, then you said I wouldn't need a centrifugal clutch. How then would I stop power to the traction motors without having to stop the petrol engine?

Regarding making the controllers, the traction motors will have a combined "Stall" current of 112 amps, thus any controller I build will need to be able to handle this much current, at least in the short term. I have built "Switch Mode" controllers before and my Tram loco uses one of these, but this loco only has one traction motor, with a stall current of only 28amps. I am reluctant to build a controller with 4 times the strength and all the other problems associated with handling such heavy currents, hence my thoughts on using the rpm's to vary the output current of the alternator.

Grant
Squirrel Valley Railway

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:12:45 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Thankyou R. Hill, I agree that a generator is the better way to go, unfortunately I'm having trouble locating one that can supply 120amps at 24volts. Thanks also for the info about alternators, I was unaware of those specifications.

Grant.

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 13:51:30 +1300
From: "Robert S Logan"

Subject: Re "Historic Train destroyed by Fire."



Hello All, I have read the item via internet, and looked at pics.

To think, that at present time, after 11 September 2001, and all of the problems since, to go to the stage, of seeing a great fire in your own neighbourhood, and knowing that thousands of hours, gallons/litres of perspiration have gone into renovation and restoration of an Historic Vintage Train, just to stand and look at it being destroyed.

What kind of person/s are we breeding?

I have been associated with restorers, transport museum, rail preservation group, and have been offered jobs with overseas rail preservation groups, and for this to happen, IT DOES BRING TEARS TO MY EYES.

You Good Citizens of Lithgow, You Have My Sympathy.

God Bless You

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:24:14 -0500
From: "Fallenhunter"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



The 24DC permanent magnet motors I'm using as traction motors are from big old IBM tape drives, you know the sort from "Main frame" computers, the tape drives were in cases about 30" square and about 5 feet high. Big suckers! The motors are constant rated at about 21V and 20 amps.

Wish I could find some, but at least now I know what to look for.

If I read your reply correctly you said that the alternator will make volts just by spinning it, then you said I wouldn't need a centrifugal clutch. How then would I stop power to the traction motors without having to stop the petrol engine?

A switch. Cut the power to the electric motors and you stop.

Regarding making the controllers, the traction motors will have a combined "Stall" current of 112 amps, thus any controller I build will need to be able to handle this much current, at least in the short term. I have built "Switch Mode" controllers before and my Tram loco uses one of these, but this loco only has one traction motor, with a stall current of only 28amps. I am reluctant to build a controller with 4 times the strength and all the other problems associated with handling such heavy currents, hence my thoughts on using the rpm's to vary the output current of the alternator.

It is doable, but I would not suggest it. A variable speed control, as you might find in a lab might do it. I suggest you find a company that works in high amp stuff and check their catalog you might find just what you need at a better price.

Dwayne Miller
Newbie Member:
North East Ohio Live Steamers
Medina County, Ohio, USA

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:57:44 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Petrol/Electric, some questions and answers



No worries about the electric motor source Dwayne, I wish someone had helped me locate suitable motors back when I was experimenting with electric traction. These motors I use come from an electronics surplus house and are clearly marked with their volt and current ratings. Don't, and I repeat DON'T be fooled into spending money on what the guys at the shop think will do! I got landed with a number of 90 volt motors. And, after surfing the net and finding that they were 90v the guys wouldn't take em back. Humph.

Okay, next thing, can you imagine what size switch you need to "break" 120 amps DC, certainly cheaper to use a centrifugal clutch. DC is a lot more nasty to "break" than AC, especially with an inductive load (like a motor).

Lastly, yeah, I've been surfing all sorts of places to find a controller that'll handle 120 amps at 24vdc, but I keep coming back to those expensive ones that cost more than the rest of my locomotive put together. And if I can't get my Loco operational for under $1000 NZ (that's just $415 US today) well, one of my objectives has not been met.

Thanks for your input tho, most appreciated.

Grant.

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:55:44 -0600
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: Re: Railroad for both 7 1/4" and 7 1/2" gauge equipment



Brough,

I am forwarding your inquiry to Nick Edwards by copy of this message. Nick had a 7 1/4" - 7 1/2" dual guage railroad in New Hampshire for ten years and I have the pleasure of being part of his current efforts to create another "dual guage" railroad in central Texas. Nick is an expert in this area and I know he will be glad to respond to your inquiry.

Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas

Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:58:56 -0800
From: George Potter

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



I must apologize, as I didn't notice who started this thread (the original questioner), but a few comments:

1. In my opinion, an alternator would be a very good source of electricity for the loco, making the assumption that you can access the field winding (meaning that they can be isolated).
2. You will need a battery (modest size, just for excitation current) and some way of charging it (I can help with this later), probably from the alternator, when its output voltage is higher than the battery voltage(which will occur when running).
3. You will need a heavy switch for direction control, but it only needs to pass a high current (when running), but not switch a high current (assuming that you only change direction after comming to a complete stop .... and switching then).
4. You only need to control the current to the alternator field to control the power to the traction motors. This can be as simple as a heavy rheostat or potentiometer ....... No current in the field = no power to the traction motors ..... rated current to the field = full output to the traction motors.
5. You don't need centrifical clutches, or anything more than a coupling (belt or ?) between the engine and the alternator.


I can discuss any of these points further, if you are interested.

Regards,
George Potter
Placerville, California

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:49:51 -0800
From: "Turner Family"

Subject: New Live Steam Pages



I have added a few new pages to my web site including the following pages taken at the Fall 2001 Apex, N.C. meet and some old pics of the Spring 2000 meet that I just scanned.

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ApexSpring2000.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ApexFall2001/ApexFall2001.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ApexFall2001/ApexFall2001.1.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ApexFall2001/ApexFall2001.2.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ApexFall2001/ECA3.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ECA/ECA1.htm


Also added are pics from the 2001 Narrow Gauge convention where two 7 1/2" gauge RRs were on tour.

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/SF.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/SF2.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/RG.htm


And I have updated a few pages also. The Gondola plan page is brand new and not even done yet, but listed in the updated section.

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/ECA.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/Gondola/Gondola.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/Gondola/GonPlans/gonplan.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/Engine.htm

http://users2.ev1.net/~on30/LiveSteam.htm

Enjoy...

Pat Turner

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 06:33:57 EST
From: davidbreaker@aol.com

Subject: Re "Historic Train destroyed by Fire."



Can't any of the loco be salvaged [it can't have melted surely?]

david

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 00:53:35 +1300
From: "Robert S Logan"

Subject: Re Rheostat



Grant, keep up revs on motor, alternator power cuts down as rheostat is closed down, works the same as "light dimmer" in the lounge. If wired in properly, as power is cut with rheostat, motor will then slow, giving all of the right sounds as a diesel loco should. The rheostat is a big sucker, I know that Da class loco had 'em for dimming headlights. Don't tell Charlie Lear, though.

Bob Logan Northland NZ

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:09:07 -0600
From: "Mike Eorgoff"

Subject: Re: Re "Historic Train destroyed by Fire."



is the "zig zag" railway mentioned in the article the little railway on the North Island that a sculptor uses to get clay, and also gives rides on? Been there. Is the town mentioned the one that the little railroad is at? There wasn't much else around there tourist wise 5 years ago.

Mike Eorgoff
near Chicago

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:43:37 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Re "Historic Train destroyed by Fire."



Mike,

No, the Zig Zag is in Australia, the little railway you are refering to is Barry Bricknel's (sp) Driving Creek Railway, located in Coromandle in the North Island of New Zealand.

Grant.

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:00:07 -0500
From: "Grice, Dale (HT-EX)"

Subject: RE: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



I have thought about building a diesel electric. and had figured on using a DC welder generator. It would need to be excited, just like the real thing. Between RPM and excitation level, the output could be regulated. The excitation side would be low voltage, possibly 12 volts. My musings, no designs.

Surplus Center out of Lincoln Nebraska carries DC generators along with 24 volt motors. I am unaware of a web site but their phone number is 800 488 3407. They have a catalog they send out.

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:12:02 -0500
From: "Grice, Dale (HT-EX)"

Subject: RE: Petrol/Electric, some questions and answers



Oh, and regarding my earlier post, If you use a DC welder generator to power the rig, just cut the excitation current off and put the petrol motor in idle. No juice, no power. The trick is to build a controller that will adjust engine RPM and excitation, just like the big boys.

Dale

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:56:36 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



George,

Twas me who made the original requests for info.

Thanks for your reply, yes I agree with your thoughts about the alternator, just finding one with sufficient output, and without a regulator, and with the field windings is the big trick by the looks of it.

As for charging a auxiliary battery, no worries there, I had always intended to have an auxiliary battery, for things like lights and air pumps.

Hmmm, I had thought long and hard about a reversing switch, a few trick things come to mind when modifying the alternator, but the easiest way I thought was to build a DPDT CO knife switch from surplus buss bar copper, a bit Herman Munster but it can all be hidden deep inside the loco.

And yes, I agree, the centrifugal clutch is redundant is I can get access to the field windings of the alternator.

Howard has suggested using WW2 surplus aircraft generators that do something like 200 amps at 28 volts, and these are just $200 US, but unfortunately this is really more than I want to spend ( it come to $500 local currency) plus postage, tax's etc.

Still trying, but at this stage it's looking more and more like I'll be going back to straight battery electric.

Grant and Donna Alexander
C/- Squirrel Valley Railway
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:58:02 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"
Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers

Hi,

I haven't heard of a DC Welder Generator, can you give me more information please...

Grant and Donna Alexander
C/- Squirrel Valley Railway

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:21:46 -0600
From: "Bill Laird"

Subject: 2 1/2" scale coupler height



Can someone on the list give me the correct coupler centerline height above the railhead for 2 1/2" scale.

Thanks,

Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:55:38 -0700
From: "David Rhoton"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



I have a source for 24 and 48 volt generators, but have a problem finding motors. My e-mail offline is farside@cedarcity.net I will check on prices tommorow. I have three of them 2 200 amps and 400 amps
Dave

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 16:57:36 -0800
From: Jerry Kimberlin

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



What would be the problem of just getting a stationary 120v/220v generator like a Honda portable that might have a broken engine? These are alternators, not DC generators. You can get hi current diodes/bridge rectifiers for nearly nothing on the surplus market as well as a stepdown transformer or other stuff needed to get the voltage where you want it. It isn't likely that you will need 5000 watts to drive this loco (24vdc at 200 A) so one of the little 1200 watt units might be OK. Seems to me that those portable gen sets are really throw-away items. Almost nothing goes wrong with the alternator section. You might be able to find one cheap/free at a scrap place, if you have any in NZ near you.

If you run into any problems obtaining surplus electronic stuff let me know. I'm close enough to silicon valley in California to find just about anything.....

JerryK

Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:26:11 -0800
From: George Potter

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Grant,

You might look into a 12V 100 amp (or more) truck alternator .....

You can get a lot more than the rated voltage out of an alternator .... there was a modification kit sold years ago that let one get 110 VDC from a normal car alternator to power 110 volt tools with universal motors.

The rule of thumb that I heard is: you can get the rated current at whatever voltage you want out of an alternator, assuming that you had the horsepower to drive it, and you don't exceed the PIV rating of the diodes in the alternator (which won't be an issue if all you want is 28 Volts).

Regards,
George Potter

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:33:55 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Thanks Jerry, have tried this channel but without success. I also have limited space inside my loco, it's about 300mm inside width unless I encroach on the cab space, but I did intend to detail the cab interior.

Grant.

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:50:59 -0800
From: "Linc Reed-Nickerson"

Subject: RE: Re "Historic Train destroyed by Fire."



This railway is worth a visit, the owner is a bit eccentric and a very amusing fellow. I arrived late one afternoon, as they were closing. He reopened and gave us a ride (me, wife, and wife's mum). Be sure to buy his book. The drive to the Coromandle peninsular is quite enjoyable, if a bit off the beaten track, little town where we stayed, just south of the line, was quaint, the lodgings were inexpensive and nice, the food superb and the people very friendly to us Yanks.

Linc Reed-Nickerson

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:16:41 +1300
From: "Robert S Logan"

Subject: Re Historic Train Fire.



I do note your concern.
I am in New Zealand's Northland, the fire was at Lithgow, inland from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
It is close by the "Zig Zag Railway" a different group.

The sculptor, is Barry Brickel, Potter, Nurseryman, ( trees, plants) and owner of Driving Creek Railway, a 15" gauge registered railway, at COROMANDEL, New Zealand.

Re Fire,
I can not say, can "loco" be saved, the main part of any train, is the carriages, and those destroyed, were "Vintage, Antique" you know, OLD. and after Police and Fire Inspectors with Insurers, have sifted through the remains, fire was so severe, roof trusses were twisted and collapsed. Shed will have to be renewed. Au$750.000.00 will look towards Au$1m before any thing will run again, AND MONEY DOESN'T GROW ON GOOSEBERRY TREES !!!

Bob Logan, New Zealand

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 03:54:57 EST
From: Dgligg@aol.com

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" scale coupler height



Bill:

I set mine at 4 5/8". In fact, my "Speeder's" coupler does not exactly match up with the two seater car. I am going to add some spacers either at the top of one of the coupler and another one at the bottom of the other car's coupling which will bring them into the correct dimension.

Doug

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:11:10 -0700
From: "David Rhoton"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



High
You dont really need one that needs to be excited. Use an aircraft starter generator.Available in 200 and 400 amps.Ohh. BUT CAUTION here folks I have used one for years and built a tone of them for friends. You will need a Choke on the positive side or your generator will go nueclear and it is hoorrriiiiifffyyying I know. Seeing one of these babes go balastic will scare the pee waddings plunb out of ya.
Dave

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:03:21 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Hi Grant:

On the big railroad, the power is cut to the traction motors by going to "Idle" which cuts the excitation to the main power alternator. The only difference between "Idle" and "Notch One" is that when you come out to "One", the alternator is excited, the engine stays at idle speed. As someone else said, the only really big switch in the circuit is the reversing switch, and that is normally only thrown when you are standing still. If you reverse a loco with DC traction motors while it's moving, the rule book says "be prepared for severe retardation", it can also flatten the wheels. One of our Engineers did that one day to four motors (locomotives) on a coal train, and flattened all the wheels :>)

Someone else has mentioned the "load regulator" that adjusts the power to the motors. I don't know for sure how you would make one, but the principle is that the engine governor holds the engine speed that the throttle position calls for, and the load regulator varies the excitation in relation to the speed and train weight. Engine speed varies from about 350 RPM, at Idle, to about 1125 RPM in Eight Throttle. The load regulator looks like a rheostat, but I don't know how it is controlled. I'll see if I have anything on the older locos that might explain how it works. It's probable that one of those motor/generator welder sets would have some kind of load regulator in them.

BTW, all of our modern high horsepower locos have main power alternators, not generators. They make the DC for DC motored locos by passing the power through a bank of diodes. Interestingly...the AC motored locos use a bank of diodes too, I don't know what for. I asked a friend from EMD: "if I can't burn up the AC traction motors (on our 4000HP SD70MAC's), why does the load meter go from green to yellow at about 136,000 pounds of T.E., and to red at about 156,000?". He said that I couldn't burn up the motors, but I could raise hell with the alternator and diodes. One of the usual failures from working an engine too hard is "hot diodes", which causes the power to reduce to "Notch Three" until they cool off.

Best,

Mike Decker

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:06:24 -0800
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" scale coupler height



4-5/8" would scale out at 22.2" coupler height. As I recall, 3' narrow gauge couplers were commonly set at 24". At that height your coupler should be at 5" (4.992). I don't know if any standards have been set for 2-1/2" scale.

It seems that the common situation is mixing of 2-1/2" scale locomotives and 1-1/2" scale rolling stock to allow pulling of club riding cars etc. If the intent is to pull only 2-1/2" scale rolling stock then the 5" height would seem more appropriate. Otherwise, the 1-1/2" scale height of 4-3/8" would be needed.

Further comment and opinions are welcomed. I am in the situation of mixing the scales with locomotives of 2-1/2" scale and 3-3/4" scale and straddle cars in 1-1/2" scale. This also involves choosing what size couplers you are going to use. I see 2-1/2" scale couplers advertized.

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry
Sonora, California

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:23:22 -0800
From: "John Nicholson"

Subject: RE: 2 1/2" scale coupler height



The Conway Locomotive Co. catalog shows 5.42" for a coupler height for 2 1/2" NG. This number has been around for a while.

John Nicholson
Bear Valley Railroad

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:42:28 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" scale coupler height



Bill,

I suspect you may receive a variety of responses to your question. It seems like those of us in 2 1/2" scale are individuals and not necessarily all of one mind. If you have access to an early issue of "The Seven Plus Narrow Gauger," specifically Volume 1 Issue 4 dated August 1991, you will see that The Great Coupling Debate has been around for some time. I do not believe there are any accepted 2 1/2" scale coupler height standards nor generally accepted dimension.

Unless you have specific plans to use 1 1/2" scale couplers and couple to existing 1 1/2" scale equipment, my opinion is build your train to your dreams and not worry about others. After all your equipment generally will not match nor be used with other scales anyway. If you do or want to couple up with 1 1/2" scale equipment or connect an odd 1 1/2" scale car or more to your train, just consider making a transitional coupler that will provide the necessary joggle and coupler size change from your couple height to the standard 1 1/2" coupler height. It can be a slip on adapter or simply a single bolt removal and reinstall if your adapter includes a coupler shank.

Doug from Seattle

Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:49:47 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



That's excellent Mike, thanks very much for the insight into the BIG fella's. I really was hoping to capture the essence of operating full size loco's when driving my liddle one and this sort of information goes a long way to help understand the process. I have actually obtained a copy of the operators manual for the actual loco I am modelling, and yes, it's quite funny the way some of the warnings are so understated in the handbook.

Grant
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:09:10 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



You're welcome Grant. I've been running locomotives, both 15" gauge and standard, for almost forty years. The thing I want out of my new 7-1/2" ga. tramway is for the trains to "feel" like trains.

That's why I don't like using hydrostatic drive (as opposed to hydraulic torque converters) for model locos, because they feel like industrial machines, not locomotives.....generally, they don't "drift" when you shut off the throttle. On the full-size locos, you can go right from Run 8 to Idle and unless you've done it when the loco is going uphill while the train is going downhill, it doesn't slow down or lurch back into the train at all.

Good luck with your loco.

Mike

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 23:35:41 -0000
From: "Pat Turner"

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Mike, what RR do you work for? The info I get on the engines I run for CSX is a little different so I was wondering. Still the same basic stuff, just technical differences.

Pat Turner

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:05:15 -0700
From: "Mike Decker"

Subject: Re: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Hi Pat:

BNsf out of Edgemont, SD. Mostly Powder River Basin coal trains. Last trip West, I had a train of soybeans going to Interbay, Wash....overseas I suppose. We had one of the CNR's nice wide-cabs on the point with a real control stand instead of that idiot desk, and a seat that would adjust every way you could think of, and probably some you couldn't :>) Maybe someday the Santa Fe's mechanical department will realize that the desk was a bad deal, and go back to the AAR standard stand.

What kind of differences did you have in mind? The absolutely newest motors are a little different from the first MAC's, and the old motors are different from all of them. I've never had one of the orange ones (or the Dash-9's) in the red, just the first couple hundred MAC's. The Company will put 12,000 horses on 18-20,000 tons of coal and then express surprise when they blow up :>) I met a couple trains on the way home yesterday with Chessie motors on them. Where do you work?

Mike

Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:42:47 EST
From: GMEYER6103@AOL.Com

Subject: Re: 2 1/2" scale coupler height



I suggest that one car have a 2 1/2 inch scale coupler at the proper height on one end of it and a 1 1/2 inch scale coupler at the proper height on the other end. Then it can be used as an idler car, some what similar to those used by the D&RGW on dual gauge track.....Gary Meyer

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:52:09 +1300
From: "Robert S Logan"

Subject: Re GAS Locos by Morrison Knudsen?



Hello All, I have a modeller without a computer. His wants, an address for Morrisin Knudsen, U S of A, he thinks about six were built, contained CATERPILLER motors. If any one has heard of said locos, give me a call.

Thanking you in anticipation,

Bob Logan

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:06:50 -0000
From: jonathan.joseph@rexam.com

Subject: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Diesel locos with AC transmission actually have an intermediate DC stage between the alternator and the traction motors - the output from the alternator is rectified to DC at several hundred volts, and then the AC motors are fed with variable frequency AC by "chopping" this DC with inverters.

If you've got one of the aftermarket inverters used to make a fixed speed (usually 1ph) lathe (or whatever) into a variable speed device, these inverters work on exactly the same principle as the rectifier/inverter sets on an AC transmission loco (though they're a bit smaller, and in a domestic situation you're usually only dealing with a 1ph output, plus the actual AC motor type may be different.)

Rgds,

Jonathan

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:45:51 +0000
From: "Chris Draper"

Subject: Re: Re: Petrol Electric, some questions and answers



Why would the Ac be converted to DC only to be converted back? Is there a control stage that has to be DC?

Chris Draper

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:59:34 EST
From: DFWSVW@aol.com

Subject: How do you or your club handle public passengers on trains?



This question is being listed to allow those of you from various clubs and private operations to share how public passengers are carried on your trains. I'm posing this question not as a form for anyone to suggest a particular method of loading, types of cars nor who should be included or excluded from riding, but to share and gather information in response to the question. Granted there are subtle relationships to the importance of safety for our riding public as well as it affects our individual and club liabilities but the real question is how do you do it.

Do you have certain type of cars or standards for public carrying cars?

Do you have a minimum age?

Do you have a minimum height?

Do you have a maximum weight?

Do you have other physical characteristics that may or are used in your determination if it is safe for an individual to ride your trains on a regular run day.

Do you have a maximum number of adults in each car?

Do you have a maximum number of children in each car?

Do you have a maximum number of adults/children or weight combination in each car?

What other criteria and/or action do you or your club use to ensure maximum safety to the riding public?


Doug from Seattle

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:18:34 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: How do you or your club handle public passengers on trains?



Moot questions in Ontario, as all clubs have been enjoined by the TSSA (a quasy governmental agency) from giving rides to the public with one exception.

The Golden Horseshoe LS in Hamilton, ON have been able to qualify their raised 3-1/2+4-3/4" track under the Ontario Amusements Devices Act and are now allowed to give rides to the general public.

As this is the 7-plus-NGM group, their experiences do not matter here.
Arno

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:01:30 -0500 From: rhartsoe

Subject: Re: How do you or your club handle public passengers ontrains?



Doug, I think these are all excellent questions. I am building a track 7 1/2 gauge specifically for riding children with Cerebral Palsy. It is a requirement that the parent accompanies and holds the child while riding. What about liability insurance? Do most clubs have it and is it expensive?

Robert Hartsoe
Miracle Mountain

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:49:35 -0800
From: "Dennis & Marie Weaver"

Subject: RE: How do you or your club handle public passengers ontrains?



It has been my experience over the years both as a member and founder of KLS along with being an insurance agent for 10+ years that you do not want to operate without liability insurance. It can be expensive if you are operating on private land and are not organized as a non-profit corp. You will need to do some shopping with insurance companies to see what their underwriters have to say.

Marie Weaver

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:05:57 -0800
From: "Quentin Breen"

Subject: Re: How do you or your club handle public passengers on trains?



Do you have certain type of cars or standards for public carrying cars?

There are two aspects of passenger hauling at Train Mountain. There are public rides at the Klamath & Western Division on Sundays during the summer. All rides are given on dedicated articulated low center of gravity riding cars. At Train Mountain meets we encourage the use of eight foot flat cars with two boat seats mounted about four inches above the deck. We have found this to be the most satisfactory riding car because of the very low center of gravity. However, members are free to use whatever riding cars they wish, as meets are not open to the public.

Do you have a minimum age?

No.

Do you have a minimum height?

No.

Do you have a maximum weight?

No, but we do have a few six foot flat cars with a single seat that we use for extra heavy passengers. We also load the two passenger cars with the heavier passenger in the front seat, so that the adult will ride in the front seat and the child in the rear seat.

Do you have other physical characteristics that may or are used in your determination if it is safe for an individual to ride your trains on a regular run day.

No.

Do you have a maximum number of adults in each car?

All riding cars have fixed seats. One passenger per seat. We avoid bench seats because of the risk of overloading such a car.

Do you have a maximum number of children in each car?

No, but if we have a school group, we have a teacher or parent riding at the back of each train.

Do you have a maximum number of adults/children or weight combination in each car?

See above.

What other criteria and/or action do you or your club use to ensure maximum safety to the riding public?

Riders are cautioned to keep hands and feet inside the car. Those who do not comply walk back to the station. The greatest risk is probably not when hauling the public, but when hauling club members, when there is the temptation to see how much and how many an engine can pull.

Quentin

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:44:43 -0800
From: Dennis Dalla-Vicenza

Subject: Re: How do you or your club handle public passengers on trains?



Unofficially from VIME in BC.

Do you have certain type of cars or standards for public carrying cars?

We have both straddle cars and open gondolas

Do you have a minimum age?

Our policy is that a rider must be two or older

Do you have a minimum height?

No

Do you have a maximum weight?

We do not carry excessively obese people.

Do you have other physical characteristics that may or are used in your determination if it is safe for an individual to ride your trains on a regular run day.

Pregnant women are not allowed to ride. We also have a wheelchair car for physically handicapped children.

Do you have a maximum number of adults in each car?

Not really (see below)

Do you have a maximum number of children in each car?

Not really (see below)

Do you have a maximum number of adults/children or weight combination in each car?

The cars are loaded to what the station agent feels is the correct weight limit for each car. We do demand that the people stay seated where we put them in order that the weight be properly distributed on each set of trucks.

What other criteria and/or action do you or your club use to ensure maximum safety to the riding public?

We limit the number of cars a locomotive is allowed to handle. Some of our large locomotive could pull all the cars the club owns but then the conductor and engineer would not be able to see the complete train. At VIME the conductor rides immediately behind the engineer in order to keep eye contact with all the little riders. You cannot believe how much this has cut down the little darling's horseplay during operation.

Do you carry insurance and is it expensive?

Yes and yes!!!

regards
Dennis

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:25:27 +1300
From: "Grant and Donna Alexander"

Subject: Re: How do you or your club handle public passengers on trains?



Unofficial answer on behalf of Kapiti Miniature Railway, New Zealand.

Do you have certain type of cars or standards for public carrying cars?

We have both straddle and gondola style cars, both with longitudinal seating.

Do you have a minimum age?

Not for passengers, but our drivers must be 18 or over before they can haul public.

Do you have a minimum height?

Only that their feet can reach the floorboards on both sides of the central seat. Babes in arms are permitted.

Do you have a maximum weight?

No.

Do you have other physical characteristics that may or are used in your determination if it is safe for an individual to ride your trains on a regular run day.

No, station master (and sometimes engine driver) do have VETO rights.

Do you have a maximum number of adults in each car?

As many as we can fit, again at station masters discretion.

Do you have a maximum number of children in each car?

As per adults.

Do you have a maximum number of adults/children or weight combination in each car?

Again as above. Station masters discretion. I do sometimes designate one of the adults as a "guard" if the train load look to be a rowdy lot, when I am performing station master duties.

What other criteria and/or action do you or your club use to ensure maximum safety to the riding public?

safety to the riding public?

Each train load is given instruction regarding not standing, keeping all limbs in-board. These are also spelt out on a notice board that passengers pass on the way to the trains. Also, we limit our trains to just two passenger carrying cars, this way the driver can "feel" how the train is handling.

Grant from Kapiti (New Zealand).

PS regarding liability insurance, we have it here, it's relatively cheap.
But I can't tell you the costs or the cover.

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 01:45:00 -0000
From: dmmcomo@socal.rr.com

Subject: Re: How do you or your club handle public passengers on trains?



Doug -

The JT&S RR Club & Museum is a non-profit corporation. We must allow the public access to maintain our museum status, but until such time that we have a docent staff for the Museum we handle public access on a reservation basis.

When we have a meet, it is only listed in the live steam publications, and even then we keep a low profile due to our limited facilities.

At this time, all non-members are asked to sign in and sign a liabiility waiver. Only then are they invited to ride the trains, but only at the owner's invitation. We have only two club riding cars, and they are usually hauled by one of our member engineers, who has complete discretion over who he hauls and the conditions that he imposes.

Someday, if we ever grow large enough, the data you are collecting may be very valuable to us in forming a public riding policy. Thanks for getting the ball rolling!

Rudy van WIngen
JT&S RR Club & Museum V.P.

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:49:01 -0800
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Re: . . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



A number of our readers (and personal friends of mine) has chosen to use Mike Deeble http://www.trainweb.com/railroadtrolleyins/ for their insurance on their layouts. Mostly because of the experience and deep familiarity he has insuring railroads of all sizes (look at the very abbreviated list under "sampling of clients").

Anyone looking into the issue of liability regarding club, home, or museum layouts would benefit by talking to Mike.

Do I have any official affiliations with Mike?

No.

Does he run a small inexpensive ad in our magazine?

Yes.

Am I being paid to say this?

No.

Is Mike my insurance agent? Am I happy with him? Do I think he's a heck of a nice guy?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

All the Best,
Greg

Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
530-527-0141 fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:01:25 -0800
From: "Dennis & Marie Weaver"

Subject: RE: Re: . . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



KLS also use Mike for our agent and he shops for the clubs liability insurance and has helped keep our premiums down.

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:26:06 EST
From: yrfavsob@aol.com

Subject: Re: Re: . . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



I've consulted a Commercial Insurance Underwriter and as far as home operation is concerned, if no donations are accepted/solicited and the Homeowner's policy does not specifically exclude the Live Steam Railway, then the Home Owners Policy will cover liability..

Dennis O'Berry

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:27:19 -0000
From: dlarrick@kbd-technic.com

Subject: cheap valves and handles



Although I have purchased a number of scale lost wax valves and handles for my cab, the less often adjusted appliances will be controlled with common 1/4" copper tubing needle valves (disguised with a tape wrapping of "insulation"), which I picked up at the local surplus store for a buck each. The 1" diameter handle comes from a Lionel crane car, and I found a handful of them at a NMRA show for two bucks a piece. They are smooth die cast metal and have four plain looking rectangular spokes, quite similar to some handles I have seen in early cab pictures. In 2.5" scale, they scale to slightly under 5" diameter.

--Denis Larrick

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:06:55 -0800
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: GSQ Website Update (Ad)



Dear All,

Some of you may be interested to learn that the Grand Scales Quarterly web site has been completely rebuilt. In addition to more than 35 new links on the "Links Page", there are:

Photo Gallery Pages
Current Issue Highlights
Next Issue Highlights (coming soon)
Tour / Convention 2001 Photos and Commentary
Tour 2002 Information
Gift Shop (featuring books, videos and other items)
Frequently Asked Questions (you're invited to pose more)

http://www.grandscales.com/ We hope you enjoy it. Let us know what you think, and what you'd like to see added or improved. [Apologies for multiple lists.]

All the Best,
Greg
--
Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
530-527-0141
fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:54:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Rowland

Subject: Re: Re: . . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



You may wish to double check with your specific insurance company to confirm this information. When I contacted my homeowner's insurance company, Triple "A", to verify that I was covered, they wrote me a letter stating that they were going to refuse to renew my policy based on the fact that they could no longer provide me with the "proper" coverage I needed. After much discussion, letters, photos, etc., with their head underwriter, I had to sign a special addendum to my policy acknowledging that I understood they would not cover my equipment for loss or liability of any kind, on or off my property. This kept my homeowner's insurance in force and bought me some time so I could shop for new insurance without being under the gun. I am in the process of contacting Mike Deeble, and looking for a new insurance company for my homeowner's coverage.
Rowland

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:32:24 -0800
From: Greg & Susan Robinson

Subject: Re:. . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



Rowland,

Sorry to hear about your headache with the insurance co.

they wrote me a letter stating that they were going to refuse to renew my policy based on the fact that they could no longer provide me with the "proper" coverage I needed.

Unfortunately, I've heard this story a number of times. The mainstream companies really don't want to deal with anything outside of their cookie cutter format. If you've got something "unusual" they'll often balk.

Most policies won't be explicit about "no live steam rr's", but sometimes there is some sort of legalese exclusion of amusement park rides of "motorized conveyances" or something like that . . . a category that they would consider live steam trains to fall under. I personally feel more comfortable with a policy that specifically says it DOES cover something, than one that may not say it doesn't.

There are few things about the current state of our society I despise more than the sue-happy attitude of "you're responsible to protect me from myself, and I'll make you pay". It is the symptom of a very deep illness. But as much as I dislike it, I don't feel safe ignoring it. Defense. Defense. Defense.

Greg

Greg & Susan Robinson
The Grand Scales Quarterly [Journal for 12" gauge & larger RR's]
P.O. Box 8953
Red Bluff, CA 96080 USA
530-527-0141 fax 530-527-0420
[Subscriptions: $20 /yr US, $25 /yr International]

Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:38:10 -0800
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Quick Time Movies On Live Steaming In The PNW



The QuickTime movies are now available from meets at both SVLS's Fall 2001 meet and from a recent run at Tom Miller's. Thanks to Trevor Heath of the Kitsap Club whose made available the movies from Tom's. There will be refinements as time goes on, along with additional movies from other loactions.

Check them out from the home page http://www.sscom.org /

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

God Bless The USA!

Enjoy!

Dan Morris

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:48:10 -0000
From: "Frolin Marek"

Subject: Re:. . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



Rowland, Greg,

I recall reading and hearing several times, so I did a quick review of my homeowners policy. It does not include coverage for amusement park rides or live steam railroads. Further more, country folk have found that at times, some insurance firms do not cover "off road vehicles".

So it is a safer bet to say, your live steam train in the back yard, is NOT covered by a "homeowners policy".

Now taking "visitors" and riders out of the question, ask what about the work-shop or train shed, if you equipment was inside and it burned down. Is your lawnmower, power tools or custom steam loco, going to be covered when its not 'inside your house' but on the lot?

That said, we have a track owner here in Texas that says he contacted his firm and they wrote him out an extension on his policy to cover his trains and workshop. And he uses 'State Farm'.

But don't recall his answer to riders... what happens when a small group gather to run trains, someone invites a co-worker out and their child rides, falls and breaks an arm. Who gets held liable? And will their insurance cover it?

Closing comment... once I get track down, I'll be calling Mike again as I was family with my initial curiousity contact with him.

Frolin
MMM

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:52:17 EST
From: DBauer2250@aol.com

Subject: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



I am forwarding a message from a new group member for all to read.
Don Bauer

(Roy Anderson's note)
As I said in my previous note my FN has been running for about 4 years. All who have run it say that it's good engine and fun to run. I am more than happy to correspond with anyone who is building one and point out the changes I made and why. I bought one of Gene Allen's first set of castings and and used his drawings as the basis for my engine.

I could work up a description of my changes etc. if you think it would be of interest.

Roy Anderson
1779 N.W. 17th Place
Corvallis, OR 97330-2600
541-757-0627

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:50:08 -0800
From: "James Hoback"

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



List,

I have seen Roy's locomotive on two occasions in Sacramento, CA and have visited with him. Roy is a first-class craftsman and the FN loco is a beauty. He is easy to talk to and shares his knowledge readily. Any FN builder would benefit from Roy's experience.

Regards,

Jim Hoback
Sonora Short Line Ry
Sonora, California

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:41:26 -0500
From: Arno Martens

Subject: Re: Re: Fitchburg Northern Discussion Group



Well then Roy, let's hear it. Arno

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:49:24 -0800
From: Roy Anderson

Subject: Fitchburg Northern



List;

I will briefly describe my Locomotive, based on the Fitchburg Northern castings from Gene Allen.

My locomotive is an oil burner, using a steam atomizing burner. I have installed an axle pump with an exhaust steam feed water heater, for boiler feed. The locomotive has a small amount of super heat. The boiler barrel is the standard length. The firebox has been lengthened by 1", there are 10, 5/8" "k" tubes and 2 7/8" "k" superheater flues. the super heater elements are Stainless tube, about 2/3rds the length of the flues. The fire box is widened to the outside of the boiler barrel, The throttle is inside the steam dome which has been moved several inches forward of the position shown on the drawings.

The track around my home has 25' radius curves so I made a few changes in the lead truck. The swing links have been lengthened to 1-1/8" the axle center and the main casting relieved for clearance of the various parts. All the journal boxes on the locomotive are fitted with cellars, as I knew that the locomotive would be run at Train Mountain, and I wanted to be sure of adequate lubrication. The boxes are also fitted with seals on the inside to keep out dirt, any excess oil would come out of the driver side and stay relatively clean.

I did make a change to the springing of the rear axle. I felt that if the pins were tight between the springs and the yoke over the rear journal box, that the system would bind. I removed the screws from the spring saddles, allowing the blocks to move a bit and then hung the rear most spring from the top frame bar with a link and adjustment nut on the top of the frame. This all seems to work as the locomotive has very little tendency to hunt.

I have active brakes on all three drivers, and there is enough power in Gene's brake cylinders to lock the wheels.

I will be happy to correspond with any one that has specific questions. I do not have drawings of the changes that I made. I made layouts to check clearances etc. on the computer, but did not keep them! With in my time constraints I will try to make sketches of specific items, and sent them by e-mail.

Roy Anderson
Oregon Pacific Railway
&
Corvallis Car & Foundry

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:36:20 -0800
From: "Daniel F. Morris"

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern



Roy;

Found yourself a list? Seems to be pretty good with a lot of folks here. So far I haven't seen any demands on subjects as with other lists. Live Steamers list is really good too.

Dan

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:29:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Rowland

Subject: Re: Re:. . . public passengers on trains? -Insurance



Hi Folks,

I forgot the kicker in my last post until you mentioned this issue above. Their additional explanation included the determination that the locomotive and cars were "off road" equipment and therefore not covered. I was going to ask if that applied to my lawnmower as well but figured even a dead horse deserves a little respect and should not be beat.

Rowland

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:57:51 -0800
From: Roy Anderson

Subject: Fitchburg Northern



The list

Attached is a picture of my Fitchburg Northern,(Oregon Pacific Railway #2) taken at Train Mountain, Sept. 01.



Roy Anderson

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:35:51 -0500
From: John Pilling

Subject: Re: Fitchburg Northern



Hi Roy,
Nice looking engine. I like the dome arrangement as it changes the appearance of the engine. I'm machining parts for five FN engines and plan to interchange the bell and sand dome with the bell between the two domes. I've also bored out the cylinders on the engine I'm going to keep. Will be interesting to see how that works out.
Regards,
John Pilling
Milford, MA
Member - Waushakum Live Steamers